INTERVIEW WITH B-BOY SKI JUMP (THE FLOOR MASTERS / HARLEM)




                                                       

B-Boy/MC Ski Jump

                                           conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders)


SIR NORIN RAD:"Where were you born and raised?"

SKI JUMP:"I was born and raised in East Harlem, New York. When I first entered the Hiphop era I was living in East Harlem but I was staying with my aunt in the Bronx back and forth."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly in the Bronx did your aunt live at?"

SKI JUMP:"183rd Street & Valentine Avenue.... yeah, one block away from the Grand Concourse."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where and when did you encounter B-Boying for the very first time?"

SKI JUMP:"Staying with my auntie.....but before I learnt that type of B-Boying where you hit the floor....my brother who is right over me and his crew they were dancing a lot but they were doing a lot of Uprock B-Boying.  Those were pretty smooth guys, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where would you see your brother and his crew dance at?"

SKI JUMP:"Well, they would dance around, you know, the house and in the neighbourhood and I would follow them to a couple of parties and I was like,"Wow! Those guys are kool as hell!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess that was during the era when the dance was still done mainly on top, correct?"

SKI JUMP:"Right." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"When exactly was that? Around 1973?"

SKI JUMP:"Between 1973 and 1974." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So these parties that you are referring to were they outside events?"

SKI JUMP:"Yeah, little outside functions and then I'd see him in....it was like a bar scene..and they went there. It wasn't really crowded or anything, they were just playing some music and they would do their thing, you know, until the crowd got there." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"And you said they were really smooth with it?"

SKI JUMP:"Yeah, they were too kool to get down on the floor and get their clothes dirty or anything because they were always dressed real nice."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please describe the way they dressed?"

SKI JUMP:"Most of them used to go to A.J. Lester's on 125th & 8th Avenue and buy their clothes. If you bought clothes there, you know,  you were a baller back in the days. They wore the Overlap pants with Playboy shoes, V-neck sweaters with the mocknecks under them and  they wore brims and Kangol hats."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of effect did watching your brother and his friends have on you? Did it inspire you to become a B-Boy?"

SKI JUMP:"Yes, because, you know, I wanted to be like the guys that were older than me because they looked so kool. I didn't know anything about dancing or anything like that besides what you see the kids on TV doing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. So what was your next step towards becoming a B-Boy? Did you ask your brother to show you the ropes or would you try to imitate what he was doing?"

SKI JUMP:"Right, right. My brother....you know, I didn't hang out too much with them because they were on another level but when they would leave I would sit there and try to imitate what I saw. And then when I went to spend the weekends at my aunt's house in the Bronx...those guys up there they would hit the floor, you know?  They weren't doing too much but the stuff they was doing was pretty kool."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So your brother and his friends would practice at your house? How would that go down?"

SKI JUMP:"Yeah, they'd practice before they would go out and hang out somewhere. My mother had a record player...stuff like that, you know? They would put James Brown on the record player. You know, we had one of them long reord players, the radio was on one side and on the other side was the turntable. The records were kept in the middle in a little cabinet." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess those B-Boys that you encountered in the Bronx had a style that was dfferent from that of your brother and his friends in that they were taking it to the floor?"

SKI JUMP:"Taking it to the floor but they didn't have but so many moves back then, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When was it that you saw them doing it?"

SKI JUMP:"Around 1974 going into 1975." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"And where did you meet them?"

SKI JUMP:"There was a small park right outside of my auntie's apartment building. Everybody would sit on the benches, you know, somebody would play music out the window of the apartment.  We were outside, doing stuff. We had nothing else to do because we couldn't go nowhere because we were too young to be walking around the neighbourhood."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How old were you at that time in 1974?"

SKI JUMP:"74 I was about 12. I was born in 1962."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, please describe the process that lead to the creation of your crew?"

SKI JUMP:"Well, I would dance and some friends of mine in East Harlem saw me doing it and they would try to imitate the stuff I was doing because I started going down on the floor, you know? It was only a couple of floor moves that existed at that time. You know, people were doing the split. People would cross one leg behind the other one and your knee would hit the floor and they would spin when they came back up. It was a lot of gestures involved like acting like you hit somebody's head with a baseball bat......disrespectful little gestures, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Doing these gestures was like a remnant of the style of the first generation of B-Boys, right? All these intimidating moves..."

SKI JUMP:"Act like a dog and you walk over and you're peeing on him like he's a fire hydrant or a tree. Little stuff like that, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you form your crew The Floor Lords which later became The Floor Masters?"

SKI JUMP:"I guess it had to be around 1976...somewhere around there 'cause I was coming out of junior high school, ready to go to high school and once I got to high school I met my boy E-Man and then I was in the same 9th grade class with MC Rayvon, MC Johnny Wa, DJ Spivey  (all from The Magnificent Seven from Harlem), DJ Master Don. All of us were in the same 9th grade class." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"The name of that high school was Julia Richman High School, right?"

SKI JUMP:"Yes. Once me and E-Man got together......you know, I wanted a crew and we had a few guys that liked what I was doing with the B-Boy thing and at the same time E-Man was pretty nice so we decided to get a little crew together and I just started calling us the Floor Lords. In fact, E-Man still calls himself "The Imperial Floor Lord". Then we had a little issue with a local gang that was called The Young Lords. Since they called themselves "Lords" they thought we were a gang, too. We didn't want to be associated with being a gang and so we decided to change our name to "Floor Masters" to avoid the beef. It's not that we were afraid of them or anything like that but it's no room for any problems like that. We're B-Boys, not gang members, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did E-Man get his name from that Jimmy Castor song?"

SKI JUMP:"I think so, yeah! E-Man stood for Everything Man. His real name is Eric, but I believe that's where he got this name from." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long did you run with that name Floor Lords before you changed it to Floor Masters?"

SKI JUMP:"We ran with that name for about a year or so but then once we started getting a bunch of members we soon had enough members to actually be a gang but we just weren't. We had a nice size crew because guys would come out of the woodwork wanting to be down with us. But we had to pick and choose who would be qualified to be in the crew. " 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were you as the president and founder of the Floor Masters looking for in potential new members as far as skills and swagger are concerned? What were the criteria that had to be met?"

SKI JUMP:"The way you dressed... also your moves had to be different, we didn't want everybody to be dancing the same. Everybody had to have their own signature look and style. Not being afraid when you see that circle to get in the middle of that circle and throw down." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe E-Man's style of B-Boying!"

SKI JUMP:"He was aggressive with it, he would put it on you. We clicked as friends from the first day we met."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were some of the other prominent members of your crew? I think you've already mentioned Ice Man to me  who was the cousin of the legendary B-Boy Sondance from the Rock City Crew."

SKI JUMP:"Yeah, the Ice Man."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall how you recruited Spivey? Had it something to do with him being your classmate in Julia Richman High School?"

SKI JUMP:"Yeah, that was one of the things but then he also lived in Schomburg Plaza. Him, Rayvon, Johnny Wa....all of them lived in Schomburg Plaza. So we would go over there and hang out. They had this little Plaza Park where they had the benches....it was a big open area. So we would take a Sanyo radio there and somebody would have a little tape. So somebody would play the tape with the beats on it and it was on from right there, you know? Spivey was the DJ of the Magnificent Seven (from Harlem)."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was Spivey B-Boying before he became a DJ?"

SKI JUMP:"Yes. He was very good in gymnastics........he did the backflip, the frontflip, all kinds of flips. He was very good at that." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about Skeeter, Ernie D and Swang? Where were they from?"

SKI  JUMP:"Yeah, Skeeter and Ernie D...they lived in some of the other projects in East Harlem. I got my guys from different projects: Jefferson Projects, East River Projects, Wagner Projects, Schomburg, I lived in UPACA Housing. In East Harlem everybody was everywhere so you got to know people in all projects."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did potential members have to go through some kind of initiation process like battling you or other members of the Floor Masters or would you decide whether they could join your crew from having seen them going off at a jam?"

SKI JUMP:"Seeing them going off at a jam, basically. We had a couple of guys who had to battle somebody to get in.  Like my boy Prince Haji. He battled Skeeter for his spot and he beat Skeeter but you know Skeeter was still our man so he was still down with us. It was just that Prince Haji came in the mix, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you describe Prince Haji's style?"

SKI JUMP:"He was a kool cat. Originally his B-Boy name was Drac 'cause he had those fang teeth. His would stand out more than a lot of people's fang teeth....like a vampire. But he would dress really nice. He would dress in suits like Eddie Murphy in 48 Hours or whatever. He would wear those slim suits with the skinny ties. He was one of the best dressed kids in high school."

B-Boy Drac aka Prince Haji (The Floor Masters)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please name those spots that you and the Floor Masters would go to and dance at?"

SKI JUMP:"Chuck Center was one of the main spots when it came to B-Boys in Harlem. Mr. Souls, Clinton Center, down there by 1199...... Club 300. Then we would go to the project centers, we'd do something in UPACA, Wagner Projects, Johnson Projects...they threw a lot of parties.....Foster Projects really threw a lot of nice parties! That's Martin Luther King Projects but they called it Foster Projects. Taft, Jefferson....I mean there were a lot of spots. They would also jam in the parks in the same projects. Somebody would bring their equipment out and it was on from there."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"To hear all this about Harlem is really amazing to me because obviously there was a B-Boy scene as well in the mid- to late 1970ies."

SKI JUMP:"Right, you had other crews that started forming at that time. Then we would go to the Westside sometimes, they would have B-Boys over there, too. They would have the Renaissance Ballroom, the Audubon Ballroom....I mean they had a lot of places over there. The B-Boys from the projects of the Westside had a whole 'nother style. So we had to get in there and we had to prove ourselves 'cause them guys over there they didn't play games with you."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let's talk about Chuck Center for a minute. Poison aka Clark Kent from the Herculords told me that he used to go there with the  (Ni**er )Twins and dance. It seems that place must have been one of the major spots in B-Boying back then."

SKI JUMP:"Yeah. Chuck used to have football teams for the youth to stay out of trouble. He gave them some place to go. Chuck won championships in every division. It was like sandlot football. He had the center afterwards and you didn't go to his center acting up. You had to respect the place, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe that place!"

SKI JUMP:"It was on the ground and it had enough room to fit a couple hundred people in there. You didn't have to go up or down no stairs, you would go straight in and when you went in there, you know, the DJ was on point. He was not cutting it up or nothing like that because that technique  hadn't developed at that time. The DJs at that time were still using the Disco style of mixing. The younger kids couldn't go into the nightclubs where the older people were 'cause the older people didn't want to see us dancing on the floor. They considered us to be cleaning the floor. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the DJs that played the music at Chuck Center?"

SKI JUMP:"I can't remember a lot of the names.  I only know one guy named White Cloud that used to play in there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were there also females in that Chuck Center party crowd or was it mainly males gathering there to test each others B-Boy skills?"

SKI JUMP:"There were a lot of girls in there!!! A lot of girls! That's what made the guys wanna compete and get in the middle of that ring! When you got the young teenage girls they were more impressed with B-Boying than the older girls." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So trying to impress the girls was also an important part of B-Boying back then?"

SKI JUMP:"Yeah....It was about how you dressed, the way you carried yourself...that swag, you know? You had to make them girls wanna come get you."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"What happened when a cat got destroyed in front of the girls? Did that lead to violence at times?"

SKI JUMP:"Every now and then you would get one of them guys, you know? Because anybody that got burnt.....that's what it was called back in the days...."burning somebody"..... if you got burnt, yeah, your pride was hurt. That would tell you that you needed to go back to your practice spot and develop your skills some more or get back on the floor and come up with something else."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the influence that James Brown had on the B-Boys in your era!"

SKI JUMP:"He was a huge influence because everybody wanted to know how to do the Split and stuff like that. James Brown, you know, he had the footwork! Nobody had better footwork than James!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When you speak of footwork you don't refer to a three step or a six step which are done from a crouching position though, right?" 

SKI JUMP:"Dancing on top...it was about how slinky your legs can be, you know? Your feet moving at the same time.......You had to catch people's attention, you know? They would make a circle around you."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What's the story behind the inception of the Floormaster Tots? Well, first of all what is the correct name? Floormaster Tots or Tops?"

SKI JUMP:"Floormaster Tots! We had a bunch of younger guys that would follow us like Donald D, Dice and a couple of young latino guys like Lil Johnny Zip, Chino Chan.......they would always be around us because they lived in the same neighbourhood but they weren't old enough to hang out with us. They couldn't get into no parties so they couldn't go represent with us. You became a Floormaster if you were 13 or older....if you were qualified. I created the Floormaster Tots so that the younger guys had something going on and we could take our younger crew and battle other younger guys. You don't want to be no older teenager battling some 10-year-old kid, you know? So I got my Tots. Tots was more like when you eat tater tots. Like kids, you know? Some of them I guess they got the expression wrong and they started calling it the Floormaster Tops."

B-Boy Lil Zip (The Floor Master Tots) RIP

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were also the one that created the Floormaster Tots?"

SKI JUMP:"Yeah, I created that myself."
 
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also pick their members?"

SKI JUMP:"In the beginning I selected the members.....all the guys I just named. My cousin Dice, Lil Johnny Zip and Donald D were like the top guys of the crew.  Johnny Zip....he lived in my building...he was more advanced than a lot of them because the boy can dance!!! He learnt real quick, you know? He became like the president of the crew. Some of their older brothers were some of the gang members in the neighbourhood but they was trying to do something to get away from the gang era, so you know they got their little crew." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall what made you recruit Lil Johnny Zip and Chino Chan?"

SKI JUMP:"Well, most of them would live in the same block and the same building. So we  outside just chilling in the block, they're in the block, too. I know a lot of them since they were in diapers. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were the hang out spots of your crew? And how did you spnd your time together besides dancing?"

SKI JUMP:"We had a couple of little spots, we would hang out in the projects....over in Jefferson Projects and Johnson, you know? Jefferson Projects had this cement bench that was half a circle. Everybody called it the half moon. We would go over there, you know, sit down as young boys, drink some beer, smoke a little bit and we would be in that half moon and breakdance. On my block on 119th Street & Lexington Avenue they had a building called 1800, they had a little area that you could sit upon that was gated in. They had a few tables and benches, we would sit in there and practice sometimes because everybody lived right there in the same block. So if you got tired all you had to do is go home. You didn't have to travel nowhere."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your top 5 B-Boy breakbeats?"

SKI JUMP:"I would say "It's Just Begun"....."Apache" of course, "Rock Steady" by Aretha Franklin, "Blow Your Head" by Fred Wesley & The J.B.'s, "Give It Up Or Turn It Aloose".

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the feeling that you had when you walked into a party back then and heard these beats?"

SKI JUMP:"That would get your heart pumping. You would try to see who's in there first, you don't even start dancing, you will go around and see who's there first. Seeing certain people there you knew you would wind up in a battle. When they would see the brother with the ski goggles and the wide brim walk in, they knew he was coming in to do it. They knew me just by that because a lot of guys didn't wear the wide brim and especially didn't wear goggles. People saw me, they knew it was gonna go down because I was always in the spotlight with dancing. I used to do the Hustle as well and I was very good at that. I used to teach the Hustle. You know, you had the guys in the black neighbourhoods that would do the Hustle, then you had the latino guys, they were always good at that. That was always their thing but after a while a lot of the blacks started to learn how to do the Hustle and we had a whole 'nother style than them. And the Eastside Hustle differed from the Westside Hustle  'cause the Westside had this bounce when they were doing it. It was a pretty nice style."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I was told by Chip that at Kool Herc's parties they did a specific type of the Hustle, too. They even did that to some of the breakbeats like "The Mexican". To what kind of songs did you do your version of the Hustle in Harlem?"

SKI JUMP:"A lot of the times it was original Hustle records until they started coming out with breakbeats that would go along with it, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of relationship did you have with the Executioners? Did you ever go against them?"

SKI JUMP:"The Floor Masters originally used to battle them and the Crusaders. The head of the Crusaders was actually my brother-in-law. A lot of us went to Julia Richman....as I said Julia Richman had a whole lot of Hiphop history. After a while Lil Zip and them they started having their own little battles and their own little things going on 'cause, you know, they were younger than us so they were more outgoing than us. After a while we started to lay back a little bit and we started travelling going to parties outside of East Harlem. We would go to the Bronx, go to the Westside. The Floor Master Tots would travel in a whole 'nother circle and they would get into all kind of battles."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please elaborate on the Crusaders?"

SKI JUMP:"They came from Carver Projects and Washington Projects.....stuff like that. They had this one guy, his name was Rock....he had a child by my younger sister. Him, his brother Smoke, they used to drive this van around, full of them guys. They would go somewhere and they would come out of this van and breakdance against people. They were pretty good though I'm not gonna take any credit from them. Just like I have seen a lot of clips where a lot of latino brothers trying to act like people weren't recognizing them back in the b-boy days. Yes, a lot of them were there but my thing is: What year were you there?  I'm not gonna say no crew didn't exist because you don't know every crew that's out. There may be a crew somewhere that didn't have a big reputation but they were there kicking butt, you know?  But they weren't there in the early 70ies. They came along during 1977....somewhere around that time. That's when a  lot of latinos started coming in and them boys were real nice! Before that they used to do what you would call a latin style of Uprock and of course they would also do the Hustle."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the Floor Masters wear specific crew colors? Like sweatshirts with the name of your crew on them in Old English letters or regular letters?"
  
SKI JUMP:"We had that back in the days because our colors were black and gold. When we got the sweatshirts...of course you can't find no gold sweatshirts....we had yellow sweatshirts with black letters on them that said, "THE FLOOR MASTERS" and they would have our name on them and we would have on black jeans."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What mad you quit B-Boying and pick up MCing?"

SKI JUMP:"A lot of us wanted to switch over because you already done proved yourself on the floor. So basically you wanted to get into MCing and get your rhyming on because you had DJ Lovebug Starski and DJ Hollywood and DJ Donald D (The Sapphire Crew) and all of them. Harlem was doing the MC thing and a lot of guys were afraid to go to the Bronx back in those days. A lot of guys that claim that they hung out in the Bronx actually did not. It was a handful that did. When you went up in the Bronx it was a whole 'nother flava!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were your major influences as far as MCing is concerned?"

SKI JUMP:"The Furious Four! I went to all the Flash parties! I would travel to the Bronx to see them. They were like The Temptations of Hiphop. Mele Mel was the baddest MC of the game! Everybody wanted to sound like Mele Mel! The whole Furious Four and then later the Furious Five was tight like that! You went to see the whole crew.  They were the first to do the steps, they were the first to have the five mics lined up on the stage. They just had a bad ass crew!  I also went to see The L-Brothers...before they became The Fantastic Romantic Five MCs.....Busy Bee, Master Rob, Kevie Kev and a girl named Smiley. And then I used to go to see DJ Breakout, DJ Baron and The Funky Four before they turned into the Funky Four Plus One More. Rahiem was down with the Funky Four. Those were my top three places to go."

June 6th, 1980: Ski Jump and his crew, The Gangster Five, compete in the "Battle of the Project DJs" at I.S. 201 (Shout outs to the flyer king Sureshot La Rock for hooking me up with the flyer!!)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you wish to give any shout outs at the end of this interview?"

SKI JUMP:"Shout outs to my crew.... the original Floor Masters and the Floor Master Tots and you know my Gangster Five MCs! Shout outs to all the guys that contributed to the whole Hiphop era! I don't care what color you were or what neighbourhood you came from. I wanna thank everybody for contributing to what we call Hiphop today."

                                                   Interview with Kool DJ Blue 

                                                  

Kool DJ Blue

                                                       

                                   conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)


SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of Harlem are you originally?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"So...I grew up on 1932 Second Avenue. That was between 99th street & 100th street and Second Avenue.  Right across from Metropolitan Hospital and Washington Projects."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please break down the geographical difference between the Eastside and the Westside of Harlem?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"East Harlem starts from anything after Madison Avenue. From the east side of the street of 5th Avenue all the way to The FDR. That's all East Harlem. Anything from Lennox Avenue all the way to Broadway...12th Avenue....that's all the Westside of Harlem. Then you got your Uptown of course....going up to Convent Avenue & 131st street......which they called Sugar Hill, they called it the Wild Wild West all the way up to 155th street. You had DJs like Master Don (RIP) who had the Westside and The Crash Crew and a lot of other DJs up on the Westside. Then you have the Eastside where you had DJ Kid Flash, you had DJ Dollar Bill, you had crews like The Crusaders and myself, Kool DJ Blue. Ski Jump who was with me when I DJed for the Gangster 5 MCs. DJ Louie Lou who was the DJ for Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. God bless his soul! He had passed away. A lot of times when they speak about Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde they don't mention him which I thought was kinda sad but I always mention him anyway. Then you got Spanish Harlem which starts from 110th Street all the way to 96th Street or something like that. They're on the Eastside."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your first encounter with Hiphop? Where and when did it take place?" 

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Well, I started in 1979. I think I was 15, my first encounter with a DJ was my brother Lep Ski. He started it, he had equipment and everything and I would see him doing it and I started liking what he was doing on top of the fact that he had this here voice. They called him "The Golden Voice of the People's Choice - DJ/MC Lep Ski". So I would go out there and I would see him playing music. Now he had his own system and anytime he'd leave the house I would be on his system until he recognized that somebody was messing with his system.  So he knew it was me. Anytime he walked out he'd say, "Don't touch my system!" But I would touch it anyway. Once I looked out the window and I'd see him going down the block I would touch it anyway until I got busted! But I didn't know I got busted until later on when I realized how he knew that I was still messing with his system. All he had to do was come and put his hand on the amplifier and he would realize that it's warm. So I was busted all the time! In Washington Projects was my first encounter with playing music on my own. What happened was...my brother Lep Ski went out to play some music and I would just stand by his side. So he went to go mingle in the crowd but he told me,"Here you can take over!" So of course now I'm nervous!  I'm like maybe 13 or 14 like that there.  I said to him, "What am I supposed to do?" Now he looks at me like I'm crazy. He says,"You know what to do. You been doing it every time I left the house!" So he pulled out a couple of records and I jammed them! The crowd, you know, went wild to see this young little kid behind a DJ system and keeping everybody dancing. So that was my first encounter with Hiphop. As things went on....as 1979 got into the 1980s...I started playing music outside in Johnson Projects where I encountered DJs like DJ Louie Lou....Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde used to come over..... DJ Ronnie Green and a lot of other DJs. By that time I had my own system 'cause my brother got mad with me and said, "Listen,  you wanna be a DJ you get your own system!" Me and MC Priest...who was my MC at the time... MC Priest he also encouraged me to do it. He said,"Listen man, if you go ahead and do this I'll be your MC!" So when I started, it started out with DJ Blue and MC Priest. May he rest in peace! I said to him,"If I do that don't you back out on me!" 'cause MC Priest he would start something and then he don't finish it. So after that we started playing music outside like Johnson Projects, Jefferson Projects, Wagner Projects and the more you play outside, the more people get to know who you are , they like what you are doing and stuff like that. I went to Julia Richman High School and that's where I met DJ Master Don and he told me, "Come on down to the Ponderosa!" He was like the house DJ of the Ponderosa. I think it was on 144th and 143rd Street and St. Nicholas Avenue or something like that. It was a restaurant...like a bar & grill. It's not there anymore. Like I said our name started growing and then going to school with DJ Master Don.....we had a school boat ride......and our names had gotten so big by the time of that boat ride that we had to take a vote on who was gonna do Julia Richman Boat Ride. The principal didn't want no ruckus over the fact that here are these two DJs that have been out there and have been doing their thing and got a name for themselves and now it's starting to be a problem with the students where they want DJ Blue or they want DJ Master Don & The Death Committee. Well, opposed to having a big problem the principal said, "We're not going to have neither one of the DJs!" Although Master Don got a lot of votes and I got a lot of votes, it just became a tie. So they said,"We're not gonna have neither of them!" and they went with DJ Spivey & The Magnificent Seven. Grandmaster Dee of Whodini went to Julia Richman, too. He also jammed in Julia Richman and he came by and said, "Hey, Blue! Can I get on those turntables?" And I was never the one to  say, "Nah, nah!" I said, "Go ahead! Get on, enjoy yourself! Pick whatever records you got and enjoy yourself!" I never treated anybody like I was more better. I was always like, "Come on in!" So as time went on I got connected with Kid Flash who became my brother-in-law and he hooked me up with Mike & Dave (Mike & Dave Productions)."

DJ/MC Lep Ski

SIR NORIN RAD:"From Lincoln...."

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Right. Mixmaster Mike & Disco Dave. Then you also had DJ Mr. Freeze and DJ Kenny Sex. DJ Mr. Freeze promoted a lot of my parties as well."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where would these parties take place at?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"With Mixmaster Mike & Disco Dave they would have parties at Randy's Place...that's like on 125th Street.....they had some at Celebrity Club and they would promote them at the schools like I.S. 201 and they promoted this one party "East versus West" or something like that. To my knowledge at that time it was said that whoever win get paid, whoever don't win don't get paid. It was all cool and everything, it was all in fun. They promoted that party where you had a lot of DJs......like DJ Pernelli-O and them (The P-Brothers Disco) , DJ White Flash, The Magnificent Seven.... a lot of them....I don't remember right now because I don't have the flyer in front of me but it also was DJ Blue & The Gangster 5 MCs. Then they promoted another party called "Battle Of Harlem's Best".....that was on Old Terrace Ballroom...I think it was an old masonic building or something like that...right on 125th Street off of 5th Avenue. That was also one of the biggest parties that they had given. A lot of their parties were also given in the Lincoln Projects. At that particular party at the Old Terrace Ballroom it was DJ Blue & The Mafia Family which consisted of MC Al Capone, MC Joe Ski- RIP, and MC Kool Joe- RIP. Those were the MCs that I DJed for. D.J. Blue & M.C. Priest had parted ways by that time. M.C. Priest stayed with the Gangster 5 M.C.'s. At this party we stepped out a midnight blue stretched limousine and everybody was like,"Look who pulled up in a limousine?!?" At that particular party at the Old Terrace Ballroom I remember it well, all of us were wearing godfather hats. M.C. Kool Joe had on a black godfather hat, he stepped out the car holding the left turn table and stood to the left. Joe Ski also wore a black godfather hat, he stepped out to the right, holding the right turn table. Al-Capone wore a white godfather hat, he stepped out holding his personal mic and stood to the left. I wore a blue godfather hat with my set of headphones and I walked up the middle as the crowd parted."

May 24th, 1980: DJ Blue & The Gangster 5 MC's participate in the "East vs West Battle" at the legendary I.S.201 in Harlem

SIR NORIN RAD:"What caused you to move on from MC Priest to the Gangster 5 and from them to the Mafia Family?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"It started out as DJ Blue & MC Priest. After a while Priest started seeing his girlfriends and stuff like that. Then we had a party at a place called We Are Somebody which was at 110th Street & Avenue which was an old film studio. People like DJ Mr. Freeze jammed there...MC Priest stepped down from rapping at that party. But then he came and started hanging out with Ski Jump (legendary Harlem B-Boy / MC), Prince Haji and a kid by the name of Kendu. They got together and became the Gangster Five MCs. There was fifth guy, I don't remember his name off hand. They would join forces with me and that's when we went to the I.S. 201 party with Mixmaster Mike & Disco Dave that I told you about. We did that, then once again everybody went their own separate ways. Later on I was introduced to MC Al Capone who was cousin with MC Joe Ski and MC Kool Joe. They needed a DJ so when we got together they was called the Mafia Family so then we called ourselves DJ Blue & The Mafia Family. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall how that "East vs. West Battle" at I.S. 201 went down? How well did your crew perform in that battle?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Oh well, listen! They did a routine with a song that was called "Gangster Boogie" (by the Chicago Gangsters). What happened was they said, "Listen Blue, we gonna start off with "Gangster Boogie"!" First of all, Ski Jump would say an introduction in terms of who he was and they would go down to  the next MC, then to the next MC and by the time they got to the fifth MC they would all say, "We are the Gangster 5 MCs!" and that's when I was to supposed to drop the "Gangster Boogie" beat. Instead of them saying "Gangster Boogie!", they would say "Gangster Five!" So that record was like hot! Then from there so that they could go off and do their thing I dropped "Groove To Get Down" by T-Connection. Well, of course they also had steps and all that stuff and each one of them went off on the mic and did their thing. The crowd was loving it! But how it turned out the Eastside did win!"

September 20th, 1980: Kool DJ Blue & The Mafia Family participate in the "Battle Of Harlem's Best" contest at the Old Terrace Ballroom

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe your method of acquiring new breakbeats back then!"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Wherever you can find records, that's where you go get them. It was Cheap Records on 23rd Street between Lexington Avenue and Park Avenue. I shopped there. I shopped at Downstairs Records at 43rd Street or something like that. It's been so long.....Al Ski worked there and anytime I went there I said,"Okay, Al Ski! What new you got?" He'd be like,"Blue, check this out!" He would throw the beats on and he'd say, "This just came in!" So when he played those beats for me I'm registereing in my mind like,"Okay, okay...." I'm listening to it, seeing what kinda beats he's going through and I would say, "I want it." So he would put it to the side and he'd throw the next one on.  Whatever he had I would get, on top of the fact that I was also registered with those record pools. I was registered with Mojo Records. The director of Mojo Records was a man called Stan...I don't recall his last name.  Howie Dee  turned me on to Mojo record pool and I got in with that so of course when you're in that you get all kinds of records. Stuff that wasn't even out yet! So every week you gonna get records and you have to do a write-up on those records to see how well they do in the clubs........Like would you play this record? Would you not play this record? Would you promote it? There were records that were like not that good but you could make that record good depending on what you mix it with. In order to get into a record label you had to be a house DJ somewhere. That's the way it was supposed to be but with these directors...as long as you were paying dues it was like, "Listen, we need the DJs to come in." So, say you didn't have a club you was jamming in...as long as you were jamming in the park you were a active DJ they would be like, "Yeah, come on in!" because when they give you the records they give you paper work with it that you have to write up to say how well these records do. Those were the terms and conditions of being in a record pool, you know? By the time you came in to pick up your next shipment of records...if your paper work wasn't in they wouldn't let you pick up that shipment of records for the week. So you had to stay up on that paper work. It wasn't just spinning records you had to fill out this here questionnaire. Let's say they gave you 15 records.....there were 15 records in your bin....when you go to the record pool you have a bin with your name...."DJ....whoever you are" and you might have anywhere fom 5 to 15 records which means now you have to do paper work for each record. If you came in one week and you didn't have it they may say, "Alright, I'mma let you pick up your shipment today but now you know you owe me a double package!" Cause that's how the record pools stayed up. They had to get that paperwork to who they was dealing with."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you have certain beats that made you stand out from your competitors? From the other DJs that were rocking in the parks in Harlem at that time?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Well, what made you unique back then..you know, back in the days DJs would cover the label of the records that they were playing. So you wouldn't know what it was. We all would do the same thing...shopping for different records...it could be some type of western music but if it had a so many seconds or minutes beat you would take that and you would say,"Okay, they (the other DJs) don't know what the rest of this record is. I'm gonna jam this and mix it with this or with that. " So anytime you could come up with something that nobody else got and then turn into something special that always made you different from the next DJ.  What happens is partygoers they go and they hear these beats over and over again though they still like them like "Before I Let Go" (by Frankie Beverly & Maze)....now you can play that record and I don't care who you are you play that record at any party and people gonna be like,"Yo!" and they gonna party and you will still get the crowd pleased because that's a record they can identify with but anytime you get a beat and you turn it into something that's what makes you stand out. The crowd would say, "I haven't heard that before!" and they would remember that, especially if you made them dancing off of that. They would remember that and if they ever heard it again...I guarantee you..they would say,"I heard that beat before and the first person I heard play that record was DJ Blue."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that there were people in Harlem who came to the parties specificially to hear new beats being spun by the DJs in the park?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Well, you gotta remember you had the MCs who were hyping things up so half of the time the crowd was into the MCs doing their thing and they may not even recognize that record right then and there. It's only until that MC would say something like, "You're listening to the sounds of Kool DJ Blue! Hit it!" and then you'd drop the beat and then they would give you that minute and let you cut that beat up. That's what made them hyped off of that record especially if it was something new."

SIR NORIN RAD:" What made you pick the name Kool DJ Blue?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"My mother used to call me Baby Blue. So when I was younger before I got into the DJ thing she would always call me, "Baby Blue, come here!" Of course it's from that little nursery rhyme..."Baby Blue go blow your horn..." That's where it probably came from. As I got older and started doing music it was DJ Blue, right? Then the way I would play music was too kool. I wasn't the Flashes of the world, I wasn't the Theodores of the world......Did I scratch?  Yeah, I scratched and stuff like that but it was more of a smooth type of way of jamming that record to the point where it became Kool DJ Blue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which influence did the Boogie Down Bronx have on you?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Well, one thing about my MC Priest. Priest was dating a girl from the Mill Brook projects (South Bronx) and he was hanging out in the Bronx. So we would go up there to hear different DJs like C.C. & Company which was MC Money Mike's crew, Grandwizard Theodore and stuff like that. Getting from borough to another we didn't have no car and back then...I got to be honest....if we didn't jump the turnstile we walked because basically the Third Avenue Bridge was right there. We would walk right across the bridge. As a DJ or MC of course you are always listening to other DJs and MCs. I looked at it as a learning lesson. I'm not better than you, you're not better than me. If you can move the crowd, you can move the crowd. However, there was a little twist in there and it was all in good fun. We would go to different places and of course we didn't carry no equipment. So if we see a DJ there we would ask, "Hey, can we get some? Can we get a little bit of that?" And they either let you or they don't for several reasons because they don't want nobody coming in there and after they been rocking and they get the crowd and then they let you get a little bit of those turntables or that mic and then you kinda make it look like you're better than them. They was often kinda staying away from that. One incident...I remember we went to Mill Brook projects and MC Money Mike and his crew was down there. They was playing music in the park and Priest said to me,"Yo Blue, let's go over there and see if we can get on!" So we made our way through the crowd, I went to the DJ...stuff like that....MC Money Mike was rapping on the mic...so Priest said, "Hey, Money Mike! What's going on?" We didn't know each other like that but Priest asked, "Yo, can I get some of that mic?" Money Mike said, "No!" (laughs) He said, "No!" So Priest said, "Yo, check this out! I can't get none of that? I mean, come on man! You know we're out here doing this." Money Mike said, "No." So Priest said, "I tell you what. Let my DJ battle your DJ and I'm gonna battle you!" Priest was good for doing crap like this. He'd done this with Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde when we went over to Schomburg and battled them for the first time. So Priest said,"I tell you what, Mike. Let's battle over this mic. If you win I'll never rap again but if I win you don't touch this mic no more tonight. " He gambled but Money Mike wouldn't challenge him because..and I don't wanna put him down but from what I have heard...he didn't have too much. He would go, "This is Money Mike, y'all!" Then he would spell his name out or whatever the case was and then he'd go into "Throw your hands in the air!" He didn't have too much coming behind that so I guess Priest already knew he had him beat anyway. Back then they walked around with their little books of rhymes and stuff like that there, you know? So he already knew what time it was. He also did the same thing with Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde and DJ Louie Lou over at Schomburg...I think it was Schomburg. Did Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde let Priest get on? Yeah, they let him get on. Now, did Priest win? No, but he put up a hell of a fight. Why? Not that he wasn't good, it was just that Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde had their crowd there already. Was the crowd fair?  They was very fair, they gave Priest his props 'cause Priest did do his thing but Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde they still won that battle."

MC Priest (The Gangster Five)

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did these MC battles go down in Harlem back then? Was verbally abusing your opponent and threatening him part of it like it is today?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"It was definitely a whole different genre from what it is today. They were talking about fly girls....at that time the word "fly girl" came out....they talked about how beautiful the fly girls was, how they (the MCs) dressed, how they would talk to the fly girls, they talked about the O.J.'s (luxury car service)  in terms of, "I pick you up in a fly O.J." The MCs talked about how good they was on the microphone. They would never talk about nobody's mother or their family and they were never talking about killing and stuff  like that. That's why it's so crazy today to hear how they talk more about death...like dying is not a problem, almost like they are rapping about they live to die. No! They got it twisted. I say, "Bring the party back!  'Cause back in our days when we was  jamming we was more into the music, into the dressing.....like the Cortefiels, the Playboys, the British walkers, the Kangols. You get out of the O.J and you're looking dapper. That's how you roll up in a party! You go up in there, you're looking to talk to some female, get your little dance on and stuff like that. That's why I'm trying to tell you, "Bring back the party 'cause y'all so caught up in doing all this gangster stuff  that y'all forgot that Hiphop is about the party!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's a powerful statement!" 

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Yeah, you know, me and DJ Dollar Bill battled and we are still friends today. There was no animosity, we did that battle to entertain the people."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how that battle went down!"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"That battle took place in East River. There was a park over there....between East River projects and Wilson projects just next to the FDR Drive. It was me, MC Priest, DJ Mr. Freeze and it was DJ Dollar Bill. We got on the turntables and the way it went down was he would take a certain record and cut it up and also do some scratches and mix it with other records. Then after that he would stop and then MC Priest would say something about me like, "A lady had a baby that's pretty and brand new. The doctor slapped him on his ass and called him DJ Blue!" And then he'd go,"DJ Blue!" Now anytime he said, "DJ Blue!"I would cut it after what he would say, right? And then he would say,"You go on and on and on and on! The beat don't stop till the break of dawn!" and I would drop that record "Scratching" (by the Magic Disco Machine) and cut it up. Then I started getting faster.....BAM, BAM, BAM and then DJ Mr. Freeze got on and he would work one turntable side and I would work one turntable side and we would still hit that BAM every time. That was backspinning. He would backspin...BAM....I would backspin...BAM. Then after he let go I kept working both sides of the turntables and then the crowd just said, "Yo, DJ Blue got it!" 

SIR  NORIN RAD:"So what was your stomping ground back then?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Being that I was from Johnson projects, Johnson Park became my stomping ground. That was the home, that was the home of DJ Blue. Then from Johnson I would go over into Jefferson and jam. Then after meeting DJ Kid Flash and all that I went to Wagner projects and I started rocking more in Wagner because that was the home of DJ Kid Flash, DJ Kid Swift....DJ Mr. Freeze would jam there although DJ Mr. Freeze was from Jefferson and we would do that right there on 124th Street Park. I even played in Brooklyn, New Lots one time... It was a bit scary because around that time Brooklyn and Queens they was all known for systems that looked like housing projects. They would have like five big speakers on the right and five big speakers on the left looking like towers and stuff like that. But they didn't have no music (in terms of breakbeats). They had Brass Construction, Crown Heights Affair, El Coco, MFSB but they didn't have what Harlem and the Boogie Down (Bronx) had. So when I went out there I played that record "Walks like sex, it talks like sex".......I played that in Brooklyn and they looked at me like, "What the hell is this record?!?!" So to get them back into their comfort zone I threw on "Cocomotion" by El Coco and they got back into doing the Hustle because you can't take Hiphop and bring it to an environment that isn't ready."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you describe the process by which crowds were drawn to the parks?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"You see this the thing about the projects...you didn't have to put out no flyers or nothing like that, if they heard some music and if it was louder than a boom box they knew somebody brought a system out somewhere and it would just automatically draw a crowd. Now if you're doing it right there in the Wagner projects people would be like, "Yo, they got the music out!" So now they gonna come it's just a matter who it is that got the music out. They won't know until they actually come out and then they start telling their friends and everybody always made their way up to the DJ. Then they would see who it was..whether it was Kool DJ Blue, whether it was DJ Kid Flash, whether it was DJ Kid Swift....whoever it was they would know once they got up there and then they was out there. Sometimes the MC would be testing his mic, "One, two...one, two." and if they heard a beat drop after that "One, two, one, two" and they heard the MC going off people would just come. So no matter what project you went to all you had to do was bring your set out. Once you brought that set out people would come."

January 9th, 1981: Kool DJ Blue & The Mafia Family perform at Twin Disco

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do remember about East Harlem B-Boys going off at the park jams? Like the Floormasters, the Crusaders or the Executioners?"

KOOL DJ BLUE:"Listen, anywhere were there was music and it was outside and you were playing all the Hiphop records they would show up. That was their thing! Once you played "Apache" and stuff like that..."It's Just Begun" by The Jimmy Castor Bunch. Once the beginning of "It's Just Begun" came out, the B-Boys would start forming because they knew what time it was and then they would go off. After "It's Just Begun" you played "Apache" that was the continuation to let them continue to get theirs off. After "Apache" you played "Shaft In Africa" (chuckles).....mmmh, yeah I mean listen, man.....you better believe by the time you finish playing "Shaft In Africa" people was sweating!!! It was over!"




                                                               

                                       Interview with B-Boy Puppet Master (The Shaka Zulus)

                                                         

                                                             B-Boy Puppet Master (The Shaka Zulus)


                                      conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders/Germany)


SIR NORIN RAD:"Where were you born and raised at?"

PUPPET MASTER:"I was born in the Bronx.....176th Street & Bathgate Avenue. That's in the 1960's. I kinda got two histories because I grew up in the Bronx till the age of thirteen and then in 1973 my mother moved to Harlem.....149th Street between Broadway and Riverside. I basically continued growing up over there but I always went back and forth to the Bronx because my grandmother lived in the Bronx, so I had family in the Bronx. It was always going back and forth to the Bronx. I even went to high school in the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which high school did you attend over there?" 

PUPPET MASTER:"Oh, that was Samuel Gompers. 1974, 1975 I went to Samuel Gompers on Southern Boulevard. At that time it was an all boys school. Most of the schools at that time in the Bronx and Manhattan were either all boys or all girls schools. Mostly vocational and technical schools. In my first year there I met Afrika Zambu through Tyrone Butler aka Pase 161 from Soundview. Zambu was Bambaataa's first DJ partner. Back in the 1970s everybody had a second DJ. It was Grandmaster Flash and Disco Bee, it was Kool DJ Herc and DJ Timmy Tim and at that time it was Afrika Bambaata and Zambu."

SIR NORIN RAD:"From what I have heard huge parts of the Bronx were divided into different gang territories in the early 1970s and you told me you joined a gang called the Peacemakers. How did that come about?" 

PUPPET MASTER:"That's true. 1971 I joined the Peacemakers. I was eleven so I was a Baby Peacemaker. You had the Baby Peacemakers, The Young Peacemakers...and the Peacemakers. From 1968 to 1973 it was all gang culture, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it that one had to do in order to join the Peacemakers?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Sometimes you had to go through the Apache Line. Sometimes you might have to fight a 1 on 1,  a 2 on 1 or a 3 on 1. It depends on who the person was. If the person looked kinda shakey then they would tell him, "Do the Apache Line!" If the brother looked like he could hold his own it wasn't no Apache Line it was just, "Come on in!" With me it wasn't no Apache Line, I fought the vice president and the warlord and they let me in."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did it mean to be a Peacemaker? Did you have to wear specific colors?"  

PUPPET MASTER:"Yeah, we all wore colors. Ours was the peace sign on the back. When the Peacemakers first started in 1971 it was a peace sign and it may have the crossed swords or  crossed 44s (guns) 'cause actually a peacemaker is a 44 pistol. A peacemaker, you know?  So yeah, we had colors, a top to bottom rocker and our symbol was the peace sign."


 

Colors of the Peacemakers

SIR NORIN RAD:"How many divisions did the Peacemakers have back then?"

PUPPET MASTER:"We had altogether 36 divisions. We had Peacemakers in the Bronx. Marmion Ave & Tremont...that's where our club house was at......Lambert, Uptown....Gun Hill Road, Edenwald Projects. We als had Peacemakers in Harlem....Douglas Projects, 145th, 144th, 143rd, 142nd Street & Broadway all that was Peacemakers' turf (territory) back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Talking to Kusa from the Zulu Masters I heard that what actually got him into Breaking was watching the Black Spades doing  their specific dance at Bronx River. Did the Peacemakers also have dancers among them? Would they dance at their club house or at parties?  What did their dance look like?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Yes, there was dancing going on. We would have Peacemaker parties or sometimes even when the Black Spades gave a party we would come to their party. Or the Black Spades would come to a Peacemaker party. They were our allies. Yeah, they would be dancing and there would be the gestures, you understand, the waving of the hands. They might do a little spin, kick a leg out...it wasn't going on the floor at that time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the Peacemakers also have an anthem? I was told that the anthem of the Black Spades was James Brown's "Soul Power". Whenever they would gather before a rumble they would listen to that song and chant, "Spade Power!" instead of "Soul Power!""

PUPPET MASTER:" Right, right. Ours was Funkadelics "Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On" and then we also had "Potential" (by Jimmy Castor). We would say,"Makers, maker, maker, maker, make" to the rhythm of the bass in the beginning of that song."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall a DJ by the name of Lay Lay who was down with the Fun City Crew? Many Puerto Rican B-Boys from such crews as The Bronx Boys or Rockwell Association told me that they went to his jams and that he was a Peacemaker once, too."

PUPPET MASTER:"Oh you're talking about Peacemaker Lay Lay. Peacemaker Lay Lay was the warlord of the Peacemakers. Peacemaker Lay Lay was an original. First of all I'd like to say,"May Allah be pleased with him!"  because this brother passed away about three or four years ago.  He was the warlord of the Peacemakers, the supreme warlord of the Peacemakers. Later on he formed Fun City. Fun City is an extension, like a subdivision of the Peacemakers. They were still Peacemakers, they just called it Fun City Crew. You understand? Like the Casanovas...most of the Casanovas were Black Spades. I know DJ Lay Lay very well, he used to play in the park over there..... 129 school yard by the pool."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Mapes...."

PUPPET MASTER:"That's right! Mapes Pool!!! He had that thing packed!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you also know his partners DJ Stuff and DJ Apache?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Yes, yes. All this was in the area of  Southern Boulevard, Mapes, Marmion...... Our clubhouse was two blocks down from Mapes pool."

SIR NORIN RAD:"....and the Peacemakers always had Lay Lay's back whenever he would throw a party, correct?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Oh, for sure! For sure! Whenever Lay Lay came out, we were always there. Matter of fact Prince Whipper Whip used to MC for Lay Lay at one time. Me and Prince Whipper Whip grew up together. He also lived on 149th Street between Broadway and Riverside in 1974, 1975, then he moved to the Bronx on Valentine Avenue and became Prince Whipper Whip."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall the first time you saw people going off?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Okay, so now we are talking about 1973/74. My brother Mike used to go to a lot of Kool Herc parties and he used to come back telling me about this and that. How he had seen this guy doing this, how had seen this guy doing that and he would do some moves in our house and stuff. But then as I got a little older and as I started to go out, my first jam that I went to was Over The Dover."

SIR NORIN RAD:"DJ Smokey!"

PUPPET MASTER:"Right, DJ Smokey was playing there and that's where I saw B-Boys going off! They wasn't actually doing floormoves, they was rocking on the top. But then the following year I went to another party on 183rd Street & Webster Avenue......the P.A.L.....a Herc joint and they played "Shaft In Africa" and I saw this guy start spinning on the floor. That was the first time that I ever saw somebody spin on the floor! I used to call it The Spinning Top 'cause the way he did it. He used to spin...where he started from he spun so fast that he winded up on the same spot and then he spun back up with his arms crossed."     

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please describe the atmosphere at those parties?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Ah man! First you can hear the music when you come off the train station 'cause when you come off the train station on 174th Street the movie theatre is right there. So right away you felt the vibe! Then you came down the steps, the movie theatre was The Dover and then to the left was a little door, you had to walk up the steps one flight and that's where Over The Dover was. Smokey was there and the guys were doing their thing! Man, listen! The vibe was very, very positive! You could feel the energy! By the time you got off the train and you got to the door towards the steps...you felt the energy." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would the beats affect your soul at those jams?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Ah man, when you heard "Sex Machine" I mean "Give It Up Or Turn It A Loose"......goosebumps!!!! It gave you goosebumps! Especially when I started going over to Bambaataa joints because the way he was playing his music and his system...you could hear all the bongos and the drums and all those instruments. He had a bad system!!! I mean Herc had the Herculoids system and it was real nice but Bam??? Ahhhhh man!!!!!! The vibe I described at Over The Dover....."


SIR NORIN RAD:"Yeah?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Bam's vibe was ten times that! It was ten times that! Because...let me tell you...going to Bronx River, Bronxdale, just that side of town itself was crazy. A lot of people back then was kinda scared to go to Bronx River. One thing I gotta say and shout outs to Bronx River, Bronxdale, Soundview, Monroe, Lafayette everybody over there, they always showed me much love because they had respect for the B-Boy game. I used to always come out of Harlem and burn the shit out of cats, you understand? And they had respect for the game. It wasn't all about they jumping you or whatnot, if you was nice with your skills you could hang. If you got burned back then you had to leave the party because they would snap on you all night."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What caused you to go there? Was it because of your cousin Rodney B aka Puppetmaster #2? I'm asking this question because Cholly Rock (The Zulu Kings) told me that in the mid 1970ies Afrika Bamabaataa was like a mysterious figure to most people in the Bronx, not too many outside of the Soundview section knew who he was and as you said many were also scared to go to Bronx River."

PUPPET MASTER:"That's true!!! Yeah, it was that mysterious, dangerous type of vibe that
emanated from that place (laughs). But yes, my cousin Rodney B was from Lafayette. But also my best friend when I went to Samuel Gompers High School, Tyrone Butler, we used to write graffiti on the trains together.....he was from Soundview, him and his brothers Craig and Mike, they were all B-Boys. He more or less introduced me to Bronx River 'cause he started talking about Baby Huey and Yellow Sunshine and this and that and all these B-Boy joints. He had given me a 8-track......that's how far back that was.....he gave me a 8-track, not a cassette, a 8-track with B-Boy joints on it. So I used to listen to that, I used to practice in the house and then one day he showed me a ticket...it was on a Friday or Saturday......it was a ticket, not a flyer, a actual ticket....and the ticket said,"DJ Afrika Bambaataa versus Tommy The Turntable Magician" and it said,"Zulu Nation!".  I was just getting hyped because of the way it sounded. I said, "Damn!" and back then it only costed 1.50 $ to get in. So I go to the party and that's my first time.....I went off by myself...first Pase (Tyrone) went off  and then I went off by myself. From there I started going to (JHS) 123, Ronnie's Disco Inferno, Bronx River Center, in the summertime in the back of Bronx River, Rosedale Park....... just that whole area, I stayed on that side of town coming from Harlem and like I said they always showed me love. Actually, I was the only one from Harlem coming to the Bronx and burning the shit out of cats and wasn't getting in no static."   

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which definitely means a lot since Bronx River was notorious for being a tough place."

PUPPET MASTER:"Correct. Now like I said before if you came to Bronx River and you knew people or people knew you from back in the days or if you carried yourself in a certain way, nobody would mess with you BUT if you came to Bronx River and you didn't know nobody and you looked like an easy prey....you know, the wolves are always out!!! Sometimes you might leave without your coat, sometimes you might leave without your sneakers, you understand? Walking through Bronx River especially when they were jamming in the back in the summertime you could hear James Brown or Baby Huey as soon as you walked towards it in the projects. The vibe was just......oh my god!!!!!! Big ups to all the Zulu Kings.....big ups to Squirpy (Shaka), Ahmed, Artie J (Aziz)...of course Cholly Rock...all of them were top notch B-Boys so if they gave you your respect then that's what it was!"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you pick up that name Puppet Master?"

PUPPET MASTER:"(chuckles) There used to be a cartoon...The Lone Ranger.....that used to come on and there was a villain called The Puppet Master.... that was an influence. Back then I was a little double jointed, you understand? The way that I danced, I was able to do certain contortions and spins and fold myself up and spin out of it and come up on my toes. I would also act like I pulled myself up by my shirt, like as if I was controlled by a puppet master or I would let my arm hang and swing like a puppet on a string. That's where I got the name Puppet Master from and it stuck to me. And then my cousin Rodney B....I taught him, he started practicing with me.....he used to go to 123 with Popeye and Wade (B-Boys of the Shaka Zulus) and all of them. He was a little younger than me but he knew Wade because he lived on their side of town an he would go,"I'm Puppet Master #2!!" I said,"Okay, alright! You're Puppet Master #2!" But he became a pretty good B-Boy."    

B-Boy Puppet Master and his cousin Rodney B aka Puppet Master #2 (The Shaka Zulus)

SIR NORIN RAD:"From what I have heard so far in the beginning of B-Boying most B-Boys would do certain routines like James Bond would do....."


PUPPET MASTER:"The Get Smart!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Right, the Get Smart...."

PUPPET MASTER:"Everybody had their signature moves. James Bond had his Telephone routine...Me I had a number of signature moves...I had my spins, I would dig the grave......"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn!"

PUPPET MASTER:"I would measure you up, do The Robot and measure you up. Then I would measure the ground, get my shovel, dig the grave, right? Do a nice move and then... BOOM!!.....lay you in the grave. Then I would cross my arms and rise from the grave. Other B-Boys would also do The Rise From The Grave but mine had a whole story attached to it. I would measure you up like I had a measuring tape, then measure the ground, dig the grave, then I'd jump into the grave but with my arms crossed, lay you in the grave and then I would rise from the grave. We all had signature moves, like Ahmed (The Zulu Masters), he had the Jerry Lewis and he would do the motorcycle. Everybody had their signature moves. Squirpy (aka Shaka of the Zulu Masters)....I don't know if you have ever seen the Shaw Brothers, the karate movies, where they would jump up in the air and then turn around and it's like a backkick in the air. Squirpy was good at that 'cause Squirpy looked like he could jump like maybe 4 or 5 feet up in the air and turn around and do the kick and land on the ground. Artie J (Aziz of the Zulu Masters) was nice!!! All these brothers over there was nice with it. "    

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also have a routine which entailed those Puppet-On-A-String type moves?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Yes, yes! If it was major competiton that's when I would bring out the Puppet Master moves."  

                                                                      

One of the Puppet Master's evil puppets (from the Lone Ranger cartoon series)

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you become acquainted with all the Zulu Masters from Bronx River?"

PUPPET MASTER:"I saw all of them at 123. At that time they had on their snow suits with two stripes. It was winter time, they had on their snow suits with two stripes and those goggles and stuff and I had on the bubble jacket. That's actually the first time I saw the whole Zulu tribe. That's after I went to Bronx River, at 123 I saw everybody."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. Do you recall how you got introduced to the Shaka Zulus? Did that happen through Rodney B?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Yeah, because like I said they all lived in the same neighbourhood.  He knew Popeye, he went to school with him. He knew Wade, he knew all of them. The Shaka Zulus were the younger crew that came after the Zulu Kings. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you remember about your time with the Shaka Zulus?"

PUPPET MASTER:"We all used to link up. You know, at that time none of us was really down with a specific crew. We was more like....how would you say...outlaw B-Boys, we didn't belong to no crew, we were just nice with our shit. Sometimes I would come to a party and I would see Wade (founder of the Shaka Zulus). We would all be standing there and we would see other B-Boys going off so I would tell Wade to go get'em, to go and eat them up.  Then Wade would come out and I'd jump in and eat them up. Then Rodney B. would jump in and eat them up. We were just forming a bond! We were looking for anybody that didn't belong in that neighbourhood and was trying to B-Boy. We would go off and burn the shit out of'em. That's more or less how Wade formulated the Shaka Zulus. It was a coalition! It was a coalition because we wasn't really down with no crew. We was just nice with our shit and we would come to the parties and dance! And I used to see Wade at all the parties.....123, Ronny's Disco Inferno, Bronx River and then we started to hang out. You know, me and Wade we got real tight. I was caught in the Blackout in 1977, I was stuck over there in the Blackout and the following day Kool Herc was in the back of the center and that's when I challenged Ahmed to a B-Boy battle in the back of Bronx River Center. Everybody that was there said it was one of the baddest battles in the history of B-Boying. A lot of people said that Ahmed came out a little bit over me, you know, but listen...history was already made when we did our thing. That was a hell of a battle! You can ask anybody that was there...Wade was there, Cholly Rock was there, all of the Zulus was there. People were climbing trees, climbing poles." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So this battle took place outside, right?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Right, outside of the center in the back they had a little stage where Bambaataa used to set his equipment up and there was a little circle and that's where we all used to dance. And let me just say this for the record...it wasn't no cardboard, it was strictly concrete!!  It was strictly concrete and Pro-Keds sneakers. It wasn't no elbow pads, no helmets, nothing like that, you had to know what you was doing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you remember the songs that were played during that
battle between you and Ahmed?"


PUPPET MASTER:"Oh, that was "Get Into Something".....Herc played "Get Into Something" by the Isley Brothers, then he played Baby Huey and to top it off he went to "Apache"...we went off to three or four records....that was one hell of a battle! It was me, Reggie Wells, Theron...they was from over by Crotona. They happened to be there and they helped me out. (laughs) Wade was on my side and Cholly Rock and them was on the other side.  Squirpy, Ahmed, Artie J they was all on the other side but when the smoke cleared and all was over they all came to me and shook my hand."

Ahmed (The Zulu Masters)

 
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you ever officially join the Zulu Nation?"

PUPPET MASTER:"After that battle Ahmed told me to come to Bam's house the next day.  So I came to Bam's house the next day, it was a a long line of people standing in front of Bam's door to sign that book. I came there, I stood in the back of the line. Ahmed saw me, he called me towards the front. I signed the book and they gave me a card and that's all it was." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which other DJs used to play breakbeats for the B-Boys at 123 besides Afrika Bambaataa?"

PUPPET MASTER:"At any given time you'd go to 123 you could hear Mario,  you could hear Kool Dee, you could hear Tex. Even Breakout came to 123 a couple of times."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Speaking of Mario what were the most notable B-Boys out of Bronxdale that would dance at his parties?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Oh, those were some good brothers! First and foremost I'd like to say,"Rest In Peace!" to my man Stearling. He passed away maybe about six or seven years ago. He was a good brother! Stearling, Cleamont, Cookie all of them were from Bronxdale. Mike G, you had Lil Black Jack over there from the third section of Bronxdale. All of them was good to me. Like I said I used to go with a girl over there in Bronxdale. That's where we used to hang! You had B-Girls...Maggie, Lilo...those were DJ Tex's sisters. And then in Bronx River there was Trina." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of snacks and drinks were being consumed at those parties? I hope that's not a stupid question but I have always wondered about this."

PUPPET MASTER:"Nah, nah, that's not a stupid question. Before you got to the party you better get yourself a beer or a Malt Duck or that Nighttrain or whatever. White Castle was right across the street from 123. Anytime you wanted something to munch on or something to drink you would get your stuff from there. Bronx River...I never saw them selling no punch or nothing you always had to go to the store before you got there but as things progressed....with  places like the Audubon Ballroom, Ronnie's Disco Inferno, Hunts Point Palace... there you could buy a punch or get some water. Back in the early days you had to BYOBB - bring your own brown bag. Everybody went to White Castle for munchies after the party."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What exactly are the "munchies"?

PUPPET MASTER:"Oh, being at a party sometimes we would be smoking Chunky Black. Chunky Black was the weed that we were smoking at the time. So we had Acapulco Gold, we had the Chunky Black, we had the Panamanian Red, you understand? Smoking all that entailed getting hungry a.k.a the munchies. After we was puffed we would get the munchies so we would go to White Castle or whatever was open and get a cubano sandwich or a Murder Burger. You know, something like that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was Voodoo Master Herb?"

PUPPET MASTER:"He was a B-Boy from Harlem.....145th Street. Actually, he was a Peacemaker, he was a Harlem Peacemaker and he started to hang out in the Bronx with me. There were only like maybe three cats from Harlem that I used to bring with me to Bronx River. Voodoo Master Herb was one of them. 1974, 1975 there wasn't too many cats from Harlem going over there unless they knew people. I was the only one that I know of....me and the other three cats that I used to take....that would go to Bronx River, in the heart of Zulu country. Back then that was unheard of."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the other two persons from Harlem that you used to take to Bronx River with you?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Ant Man and Kev. Ant Man was a B-Boy, Kev wasn't."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your top 5 breakbeats of all time?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Ahhhhh! Top 5! Top 5! Number one....Baby Huey "Listen To Me", number two.....from James Brown.."Give It Up Or turn It Aloose", number three was "Apache", number four....Dynamic Corvettes "Funky Music Is The Thing".....number five is King Gerrsson "Doing The Do" ("Mandamentos Black"). Those are my top 5 records, especially "Doing The Do"! When Bam used to throw that on, we didn't know what the fuck that was but the beat was banging!!!!

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you would say that Afrika Bambaataa was the DJ who had the illest breakbeats back then?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Yeah, he would play super crazy beats that you had never ever heard before. Crazy beats!!!! All the crazy beats you would hear at Bam's joints!  You would hear all the regular beats like "The Mexican", "Give It Up And Turn It Aloose" at other parties but when you went to Bambaataa you heard some exotic shit."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would prepare yourself for jam while you were still at your house? What kind of clothes and cologne would you put on?"

PUPPET MASTER:"I knew I would be B-Boying so I would have on some Lee jeans, some Pro-Keds, probably a mockneck....shortsleeve 'cause I knew it would be getting hot in there. If it was really cold outside I would put on a longsleeve mockneck or a wool mockneck and I would have on either a bubble jacket or a Cortefiel coat. For a hat I would have on a wool Kangol, in the summertime I had a summer Kangol." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which cologne was popular back then?"

PUPPET MASTER:"Back then everybody was rocking that Royal Bain de Champaigne or Royal Copenhagen. Some might throw on Grey Flanell but everybody used to rock Royal Bain de Champaigne and Royal Copenhagen 'cause they sold them at A.J. Lester's on 125th Street."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How important was it to be original as a B-Boy? Was it okay to bite somebody else's moves?"

PUPPET MASTER:"You might get stomped out for doing that! That's true! You might get stomped out for biting somebody's moves. You had to come up with your own original shit, you know!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, and how important was it to match the music with your moves back then? This is one of the questions that I ask every original B-Boy as I have noticed that nowadays many so-called B-Boys totally ignore the beat when they go off. That wasn't accepted during your era, was it? You also didn't go off to just any type of beat, right?" 

PUPPET MASTER:"Oh no, no, no!! See, the beat counts!! The nastier that drumbeat the better your moves will look! Back then the beat always counted. How can you B-Boy to a whack beat??? That's counterproductive! You gotta have a nice heavy beat, you understand? Bongos, drums, guitars....all that!!! I come from back in the days and the beat always counts. I understand what you're saying 'cause sometimes I watch these guys on youtube and their moves don't match the beat.  They're out of step! They're out of step! You had to be on time, on step with the beat! There's a lot of science that went into that. We didn't know about science at the time but we was calculating the rythm of the beat to our movement. Everything was insync with the beat, even when we did a freeze it was insync with the beat, when we came back up it was insync with the beat! That's it!  Going against the beat ain't really B-Boying."















 

                                   Interview with B-Boy Wil Ski (The Seven Deadly Sins)




                                                   

WIL SKI (THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS)

                                        conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders/Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Boogie Down Bronx are you originally?"

WIL SKI:"Kingsbridge Road & Morris Avenue. That's where Tracy 168 (legendary BX Style Writer) was from as well."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How old were you when you encountered B-Boying for the first time and what got you into it?"

WIL SKI:"I was about 16. We used to breakdance out in the streets...like block parties and we used to also battle in the hallways. My brother hasn't been mentioned....I don't know why my brother has never been mentioned... a lot of things have not been mentioned about us. He was the one who brought it (the dance) to us. He used to go to school where Flash, Caz and others use to hang around at and ended up learning from them. He use to come home like everyday with 12 inch records and use to be in his room practicing on his Technics turntables and Gemini mixer with a speaker at the window making tapes and we use to watch him. Every now and then he would play back the tape he had recorded and would bust a move here and there and so one day we asked him if he would teach us. He was like, "You're sure you wanna take a chance doing this? You might get hurt." We were intrigued by what we would see him do so we were like," Hell yeah . .!!!" So he began showing us the basics and we would practice while he would be DJing. He was the one that formed The Seven Deadly Sins."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What's your brother's name?"

WIL SKI:"His DJ name was Cool Sky." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the members of the Seven Deadly Sins?"

WIL SKI:"It was seven of us. It was me, Lil Lep...at the time his name was Ray Ski, my other brother Reggie....we used to call him Reggie Reg. Then we had Benny B, we had P-Man, we had Sin Bad, we had Lil Flip Rock and my other brother Cool Sky. Then we had Fastbreak and Johnny Dee as our substitutes. Whenever one of us was missing Fastbreak was right there. We also had a mascot, my little sister Crystal Dee. May she rest peace! She was 6 years old and she was the mascot of the Seven Deadly Sins."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was the president of The Seven Deadly Sins?"

WIL SKI:"The president of our crew was my brother, Cool Sky. The best B-Boy of the Seven Deadly Sins was Lil Lep, my partner. Whenever we battled against other crews we would let the other five (B-Boys of our crew) start it all because they weren't as skilled as we were and then me and Lil Lep would take over after that." 

B-Boy Ray Ski a.k.a Lil Lep (The Seven Deadly Sins)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did your crew have something like a hang out spot?"

WIL SKI:"Yes, we used to go to Lil Lep's sister's house. We used to get high there, smoke some weed. Back then we also used to drink a vine called Night Train. We used to drink that with a little bit of weed and that's all she wrote. If we had to battle we would take it to the building next door which was my building or we would take it to the Family Force building which was basically the last stop for a lot of B-Boys from all over the Bronx who tried to battle us."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What's the story behind the Family Force building?"

WIL SKI:"The Family Force were the older guys from our block, they were like basically our bodyguards. They used to hang out in that building. So whenever we would be outside and people would come and want to battle us, we used to go into their building...the Family Force building..and we used to battle right in the hallway." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you get your music from when these battles took place?"

WIL SKI:"We would have a boombox. My brother (Cool Sky) would bring his boombox with his mix tapes...we would throw it on and get busy!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"On what kind of a floor would these battles take place?"

WIL SKI:"Marble floor....That's another thing. When we started breakdancing in the late 1970ies/ early 1980ies we never practiced or had any battles on cardboard! We did that on the hallway marble floor or on the concrete street! We never did that cardboard stuff. That came afterwards. We would scrape up our elbows and have calluses on our shoulders from doing windmills."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would your brother DJ Cool Sky also throw parties in the streets back then?"

WIL SKI:"Yeah, we would close the block down, we would get permits. You know back then...especially in the summer....there was a block party everyday!  Everyday there was a block party somewhere or a house party somewhere. Most battles took place in the streets..at those block parties but when individuals like Crazy Legs and Lil Crazy Legs (The Rock Steady Crew)....they heard of us, we didn't know who they were........they came to us. They saw us out there, they asked about us, we told them who we were, they told us who they were and they told us that they wanted a battle. So we battled, we took it to the hallway being that they came to our block. Other individuals would do the same thing. They would come to our block and we battled."     

SIR NORIN RAD:"How were the winners of these battles determined back then? I guess back then there were no judges involved, were they?"

WIL SKI:"No, there were no judges but there was always a crowd, you know? Whenever there was a battle they would come. Whoever was out in the streets at that time we would let them know, "We're about to battle so and so." Then we'd go to the hallway and we'd do what we got to do. They (the crowd) would call it. Whoever they thought was the best they would call it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did that battle against Crazy Legs and Lil Crazy Legs go down? Who took that one?"

WIL SKI:"I would say in that battle we basically came out on top. They had nice moves, especially Lil Crazy Legs......and, you know, we had ours! We always ended up like a tie. It would never be like a blowout or something like that. Nah! It was always like, "Damn! Next time we gotta do better!"  I guess they would think the same way. Next time they'd come they would have better moves and we would have better moves."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you battled them more than once?"

WIL SKI:"We battled twice! We battled in the block parties one time...in Bainbridge Ave & 196th. We first battled in the Family Force building though, then we battled in Bainbridge."

Lil Crazy Legs (The Rock Steady Crew)

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were some of the block party locations on your side of the Bronx were B-Boying took place regularly?"

WIL SKI:"Most block parties that were real big were on Decatur Avenue, Bainbridge Avenue, Marion Avenue....Those were like the most favourite spots for block parties. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did your brother Cool Sky also DJ at those spots?"

WIL SKI:"Yeah, he would DJ there, too. He played on our block, too, on Morris Avenue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were some of the other DJs that played breakbeats for the B-Boys in that area?"

WIL SKI:"We had DJ Lil Chase, we had..DJ Will Rock...I think it was Will Rock...DJ Ronnie Ron."

SIR NORIN RAD:"In which year did the Seven Deadly Sins start?"

WIL SKI:"1979....in the summer of 1979."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I must say that I really dig that name. Who came up with it?"

WIL SKI:"My brother Cool Sky. His real name was Victor."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did he dance under the name of Cool Sky?"

WIL SKI:"Nah, when he started the crew he didn't breakdance. He just used to teach us. He was our DJ but he taught us how to dance. He laid the foundation down, put it that way and we took it from there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. Now what kind of relationship did the Seven Deadly Sins have with the Floormasters who later on became the New York City Breakes and appeared in that famous movie "Beat Street" in 1984? Lil Lep became a part of them, right?"

WIL SKI:"Well, the Floormasters....we all went to school together. Pex, Chino, Matthew aka Glide Master who died in a car accident....we all went to school together. They weren't into breakdancing. It just so happened that they would go to parties and they would see us doing what we were doing and then they would imitate us in their block. One time we went by, we would see them doing that and we were like, "Oh shit, look at these guys doing it!" So we went over there and we were like, "We didn't know you was into this!" and they were like, "Nah, we're just practicing. Getting into it."  We gave them little lessons and they took it from there but we never thought that they would end up making a crew in the long run."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Around which time did your crew the Seven Deadly Sins disband?"

WIL SKI:"I would say around 1981/82. Around 81/82 I turned into rapping and I turned into crime. The other individuals they went about their bussiness, they weren't showing up no more. So you know, it just like died as far as the Seven Deadly Sins was concerned. Lil Lep ended up getting with the Floormasters because he got bored by just being by himself or whatever and so he started practicing with them, teaching them little moves here, little moves there. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did the B-Boys of your era (late 1970s- early 1980s) wear?"

WIL SKI:"Back then most of our footgear was Adidas. Shelltops! Shelltops Adidas....all different colors! Lees (jeans).....different colors. It was always sweatshirts..if it was in the winter you had on a long sleeve sweatshirt with the colors in the back, in the summer you had on a short sleeve sweatshirt."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about BVDs ?"

WIL SKI:"Yeah, BVDs, Paris.....first Paris.......that was the first ones....Paris. Then Paris went out of style and we would start wearing BVDs." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How important was the aspect of Toprocking during your era?"

WIL SKI:"That was very important because that's the start of the battle. You start on top, you know you start from there. You do little moves...like me and Lil Lep used to have routines. I would do my moves like I would make a move like I shoot him and he would drop into one of our other members arms and they would throw him up and he would fly up, go down to the floor and start there....doing his breaking moves, going into his windmills or whatever he is going to do. But Uprocking was very important, that was very important!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you! Could you please also describe the importance of the music to the B-Boys of your era?"

WIL SKI:"The breakbeats were very important. The beats were what made you do your moves. Like I said you start on the top then you go down to the floor but everything is always based on the music. You go according to the beats! Most of the times when we were going to battle we would know the DJ. So we would go to the DJ and let him know, "We're about to battle this crew. Put on this beat or put on that beat! Start like this!" and they would do what we asked them to do. But music played a very important part!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"That was the time when DJs still had to have a strong soundsystem to rock a party. I was told that you could hear the beats from several blocks away when DJs set up in a park back then."

WIL SKI:"Hell yeah!!  You had to have the high power speakers. The baddest ones was Kool  Herc & The Herculords. You had to have a high power soundsytem so the B-Boys would FEEL the music. You gotta feel it, if you don't feel it you can't dance the way you want. You gotta feel that shit!! You have to have your heart beat to the music. That's what hypes you up!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what would go through your mind back then when you and your crew were in the streets and all of a sudden you started hearing those funky breakbeats ?"

WIL SKI:"We would be like,"Where is this beat coming from???" We would follow it. "It's over here!!! Let's go!" So everybody would rush to that spot. It was crazy!!! It was crazy back then!!! You'd hear the music and you'd just follow it and once you'd follow it you would see crowds and before you know it you would be right where the jam was at."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So flyers weren't always needed to draw huge crowds to a party?"

WIL SKI:"You also had flyers to let you know what was going on. Most of the flyers were for clubs like Harlem World or the T-Connection. You'd see the flyers..."Oh, Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five are going to be at the T-Connection!" or "Grandwizard Theodore & The Fantastic Five are going to be at Harlem World!"but when it came to block parties or house parties you'd just follow the music. You'd just follow the crowd. You would bump into people, "Yo, where's the jam at?"  "It's over here in Bainbridge & 196th!" "Oh, word?!?" "It's in the house or in the street?" "No, it's in the basement!" "Oh shit! Word?!?!" So you would go there and once you heard the music you would follow it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So did you also attend those parties at the T-Connection and check out all these various DJs with their MC crews?"

WIL SKI:"Hell yeah, that's how I started rapping. Listening to them, going home and visualizing myself  doing what they was doing and I would start writing my rhymes down and then I would throw on one of my brother's tapes and practice. He didn't know that I was doing that. He thought I was just breakdancing but I was transforming." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have spoken to a B-Boy called Lil Boy Keith....."

WIL SKI:"I know exactly who he is. Lil Boy Keith from the Zulu Kings. They were the first B-Boy crew."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yes, and he told me about a very large Puerto Rican B-Boy crew called TDK...."

WIL SKI:"The Disco Kids...."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Right, and they would throw parties in abandoned buildings. Creating their own little club houses. Are you familiar with them?"

WIL SKI:"Yeah, we would go to their jams, too!  We would do the same thing. We would steal the power from the light poles in the streets and run it into the basement of an abandoned building. You know how many times police ran up into our houses and surrounded the whole place and took my brother's equipment and records?  Ah man, everybody running, trying to get away. -That's how it was back then. Everywhere! Creston, Morris, Davidson.......there were a lot of abandoned buildings there....Decatur....we would get in there, get into the basement, clean it up real good, run the power in there from a light pole and let the people know, "Yo! We're throwing a jam! We're charging 1$ for guys and 1$ for girls." Have you ever heard of this guy....I forgot his name...he's a known DJ today...from the Bronx...his nickname when we was growing up together was Poochie....he started DJing and he started imitating Flash and he was nice! He's black but lightskin."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Are you talking about Kid Capri?"

WIL SKI:"Kid Capri! His name is Poochie. I had him throwing house parties for me and he was from Kingsbridge Terrace and I also used to live down there at the time. So when I wanted to throw a house party I would go to him. I would let him know,"We're charging 1$ for guys and 1$ for girls and we gonna give the girls one joint for free." So basically you're really selling your weed to the girls, you know what I'm saying? (we're both laughing)" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What would you do with the furniture in these buildings?"

WIL SKI:"If it was a house party in somebody's apartment we would take out all the furniture from the living room and put it into the room connected to it. You gotta take everything out. It gotta be completely empty. The DJ equipment would be in the kitchen and the windows would be open. If it was to the front or to the back, it didn't matter, you would hear the music."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess the DJ would play all these legendary breakbeats at these parties like "Apache" or "It's Just Begun"?"

WIL SKI:"Hell yeah!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about other types of music?"

WIL SKI:"They would throw on Hustle music, Disco music. Yeah, you know they would throw that on because you got different crowds. You got people who wanna hear that and wanna dance to that. So the DJ gotta throw both in and you may throw on a little Salsa. Throw on a little Salsa so the DJ can get a little break and the B-Boys and MCs can get their shit together, get their heads right. You already know when the music shuts off and you hear the Masters Of The Ceremonies, the MCs doing their introduction. You already know what's coming!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about slow music? I was told that at Kool Herc's parties there would always be one segment of the party where the DJs would throw on slow joints, they would dim the lights and the guys would do the 500 with the girls."

WIL SKI:"Yo, you're giving me a flashback! Word! When that shit comes on, B-Boys turn into lovers (chuckles). The slow jams gotta play a role, too in the jam. It ain't gonna be just B-Boy music all night. You gotta have that, you gotta have slow jams, you gotta have Hustle music, you gotta have a little Salsa, you know? Even Jamaican music! You gotta have a variety of music at your jam. Mind you, a party in the street might start at 9.30 / 10.00 o'clock. Sometimes they started even earlier and they won't end till 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. It only ends when the police comes, "Hey, hey, you gotta break that shit up!" Most parties in the streets didn't have permits."
  SIR NORIN RAD:"When you were brought up as a child did you learn how to dance Salsa? Did that influence your B-Boy skills?"

WIL SKI:"I was brought up with dancing Salsa but I wasn't too thrilled with that. You know, I was raised around it but I wasn't going for that. We also danced the Hustle."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it true that back then there was always the danger of having to deal with stick up kids or with people who tried to step to you at jams? Was that something that played a role at those jams in your part of the BX?"

WIL SKI:"Everywhere! Not just Kingsbridge (Ave)....wherever you went, wherever there was a party whether it was in the streets, whether it was in a house, whether it was in a school...wherever there was a party there were stick-up kids. That's why a lot of us ended up getting strapped (carrying weapons)."   

SIR NORIN RAD:"You have mentioned Jimmy Lee (founder of the Rock Steady Crew) quite often in our previous conversations. What is your relationship with him?"

WIL SKI:"That's my boy! I go see him I take care. I just finished speaking to him before I had this interview with you. That's my boy right there!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you met him long before that battle against Crazy Legs and Lil Crazy Legs took place?"

WIL SKI:"That's correct! I battled him, too."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did that battle go down? Please elaborate!"

WIL SKI:"We bumped heads.....Jimmy Lee was originally a member of TBB (The Bronx Boys). He like most guys from 183rd street was affiliated with TBB. I hung out there, too. So when Jimmy Lee was with TBB I ended up battling him. TBB was close to us so we would always bump heads and whenever we bumped heads we would battle. Didn't matter where it would be at. It could be Fordham Road...if we bumped heads there, we would take it to a side street and we'd battle! Even with no music!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn!!!! How did these battles start?"

WIL SKI:"It was probably words like,"Yo! What's up, man?!? Claiming you do this, claiming you do that. What you wanna do?!?! You wanna do this right now or what!?" You know, and we would take it from there. Mom would be tight when we got home. Clothes all messed up. "What were y'all doing???" Remember like I said we weren't doing it on cardboard, we were doing it on concrete. So when we got home our pants would be ripped, our shirts all messed up, dirty. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did that battle against Jimmy Lee take place at?"

WIL SKI:"We battled on Davidson Ave off of Fordham Road." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"You mentioned that the legendary Style Writer Tracy 168 lived very close to you. Did he know you and your crew?"

WIL SKI:"Of course. Yes, most definetely."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you write as well? I have heard that many Puerto Rican B-Boys were also Writers like Spy (Crazy Commanders) would write Space 1000 and he would go bombing with Trace 2 (The Bronx Boys)."

WIL SKI:"No, I didn't write but a lot of members from the Seven Deadly Sins like Benny B and P-Man they use to do Graffiti.  They used to go bombing, throwing up their names and stuff like that but I wasn't a Writer."

B-Boy Wil Ski (The Seven Deadly Sins)