Interview with B-Boy Kusa (The Zulu Masters)


                                                                       

Kusa (The Zulu Masters)

                                                             

conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Bronx are you originally?"

KUSA:"Bronx, New York. Bronx River Houses. Born and raised!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your first encounter with B-Boying?"

KUSA:"Okay, my first encounter...I was like 12, maybe 13....I wasn't really a Zulu King yet but they was throwing a jam in the center of Bronx River and they was playing the music and the Black Spades was there! I was looking around and they was dancing crazy! I always liked the music so I was hooked to the music already. When I saw them doing their thing and all that I said, "Yo, what am I getting myself into?" but at the same time as I said I liked the music so that's what drew me to it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall which songs were played at that party in Bronx River Center?"

KUSA:"James Brown! A lot of James Brown....."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Give It up Or Turnit A Loose?"

KUSA:"Yeah and they had this joint which used to be like, "Soul Power!!!"  and the Black Spades always used to chant "Spade Power!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did the dance look like which the Black Spades were doing? I guess there weren't doing any floor moves?"

KUSA:"No, they were doing something with their feet and their hands.....it was like real deep and I was standing there like,"What am I getting myself into?" I mean they was doing their thing but it wasn't to the floor. It was no B-Boying!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were they doing something like burning each other? Using certain hand gestures and facial expressions to intimidate their opponents on the dance floor?"

KUSA:"That was when B-Boying started coming in! Cause like you had a person that was breaking against you and they would take of  your head, throw it up and get a bat and swing it and it would look like they'd hit your head out of the ball park."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Ok, but you're saying that's not what the Black Spades were doing, right?"

KUSA:"No, no, no!!!! It was like a thing where they would be stomping with their heavy boots. They would wear a Levi's denim jacket with cut off sleeves with their gang sign colors on their back..."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was DJing at that party?"

KUSA:"Bambaataa was playing the music." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what happened after that party? What were your next steps towards becoming a B-Boy?"

KUSA:"Right after that it seemed like they left so fast....the Spades...I'm not saying they left but it seemed  like the wind blew in and they was gone, you know!? So then we started breakdancing...doing the floor thing....we used to dance wherever Bam used to play for people. 

We started breakdancing there and then we named ourselves the Zulu Kings. So he used to like pay us maybe 5$ and we would take that money and go to White Castle. You know, things like that. Then what happened was we started getting nicer and then talent shows started coming. Monroe, Stevenson, all around...now we wanted to get in the talent shows so we started performing there...doing our steps to "Apache" by The Incredible Bongo Band....we did our routines all that....and we used to win all the time. I mean, we never lost a talent show! When we used to  perform at these talent shows as soon as they said, "The Zulu Kings!!!" everybody left their seat, ran to the front, nobody was in their seat!!! Nobody!"

SIR NORIN RAD: Did the Zulu Masters / Kings have a specific practice spot?"

KUSA:"Yes, upstairs in the center in Bronx River. The community center. At that time when we was young the community center was open to us. We had no problems getting rooms or whatever. We would practice our routines there but we also practiced our individual moves at home, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you have a boom box with you?"

KUSA:"It was a record player because we had the albums."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you get your name from?"

KUSA:"Afrika Bambaataa gave us our names."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What does "Kusa" stand for?"

KUSA:"It means "Superior King"."

SIR NORIN RAD:"From where did you know the other Zulu Kings?"

 

KUSA:"We grew up together. Zambu lived in my building. Yeah, he grew up in my building! I lived on the 7th floor, Zambu lived on the 5th floor.  Ahmed lived on the 8th floor. Aziz lived on the 12th floor. Shaka lived across from us in 1595. I also grew up with Beaver. He was always nasty! That was my man!!!! He was just one year younger than me. His brother Poo Poo, I hung with Poo Poo, too. Me and him was tight all the time! Beaver was never defeated by anyone!!! He was undefeated!! Undefeated!!! I mean I have never seen nobody with footwork like that in my life!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you go to other areas and challenge the B-Boys over there as Zulu Kings?"

KUSA:"We was nice so we didn't have to do that. We just did our own thing. We went to other places and we danced over there but it wasn't really like a challenge thing because nobody really wanted to challenge us. But there were a lot of battles going on back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the most outstanding B-Boys in those areas next to Bronx River......like in Monroe or Castle Hill?"

KUSA:"There was B-Boys in every projects!!!! Chipper and them.....those guys I remember. They were from Monroe. They also had a guy named Worm....he used to B-Boy. He was nasty!!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Afrika Zambu told me that in the beginning you called yourselves Zulu Masters. Why did you change that later on to Zulu Kings?"

KUSA:"I think we agreed that we didn't like that name so we changed it real quick. I don't even think we ever wore Zulu Masters on our shirts."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall who recruited you for the Zulu Masters/ Kings?"

KUSA:"Man, I don't know if it was Bam but I think he was because he was the one who came up with the name "ZULU". So it has to be him if anything."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have heard that a gentleman by the name of Poochie Turner who was very nice when it came to dancing was a huge influence on all of the original Zulu Masters/Kings. How important was he for your development as a B-Boy? Did he show you the ropes?"

KUSA:"Yes, him and Zambu but he had his own moves. He was a huge influence on all of us. He lived in my building and he was down in our era. He was real nasty! His favourite record was "Give It Up Turnit A Loose". 

SIR NORIN RAD:"When you are referring to footwork what exactly do you mean? Are you talking about doing certain movements with your feet while being in a crouching position on the floor?"

KUSA:"Yes, because there was no spinning on your head and things like that. We didn't do that!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So footwork was very important in your era?"

KUSA:"Yes, it was! But I had a famous move they called the Jelly Roll. I would roll over and then flop on the floor."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you describe your own footwork style?"

KUSA:"Smooth and funky! I wasn't fast like Beaver. Beaver was something else....I mean I never saw anything like that in my life, man!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you remember about the relationship of the Zulu Kings with the B-Boys of the Shaka Zulus? Wade, the founder of the Shaka Zulus, told me that he once auditioned to become a member of the Zulu Kings but you rejected him and so he became very upset and he went and formed his own crew which was called the Shaka Zulus. Bambaataa gave him his blessings to do that..."

KUSA:"Wade!! That's my man! (laughs heavily) He was down with us but we already had our main five (Shaka, Zambu, Aziz, Ahmed and Kusa). Later on I started to get out of it. I was getting a little older...you know, how people say they retire but nobody retires from that. Beaver came and he took my spot. Beaver came and he performed I think twice with the Zulu Kings at talent shows.  After that we (the original five Zulu Kings) got older. Things started fading from the B-Boy thing. Everything started to be like a laid back thing...cool....you know like you get a new wardrobe...you get fresh...you go to the party and chill listening to the music."

SIR NORIN RAD:"But do you remember the day when Wade was told that he didn't make it?"

KUSA:"Yes, I do but it wasn't a thing that he didn't make it. Wade was swift with his feet! Wade was nasty! He had is crew.....him, Popeye and some others that I can't remember. A couple of brothers and they was nasty!!!! But it was a thing that we had our main five already. We had already established that we were the Zulu Kings who were doing shows. Nobody else could get that name. So Wade and them became Shaka Zulus. It wasn't a thing that we didn't want him in. It was just a thing that we were already established with our name!"

Wade (The Shaka Zulus) & Kusa (The Zulu Masters)

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. Do you also recall Wade's B-Boy partner Angel? A Puerto Rican B-Boy?"

KUSA:"Angel....Yes, I do. I think he was from Bronxdale."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Ok, there is a flyer from 1977 advertising a battle between the Zulu Kings and the Shaka Zulus at JHS 123..........."

KUSA:"Yeah, I remember that day!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"And I have heard that five Zulu Kings went against like 15 or 20 Shaka Zulus. Were you present at that battle?"

KUSA:"Yes I was!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how that battle went down!"

KUSA:"I'm gonna tell you it was like a real strong battle for maybe an hour!!! One hour! Strong! But to me it was like that it started as a battle but afterwards it was like we are all down together! So let's just rock and tear it up! You know, after a while it wasn't a battle no more it became like, "We are partying together! Let's just do our thing!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who won that battle? Wade feels like his Shaka Zulus took you out that day!"

KUSA:"Okay, now you gotta remember it was five of us against fifteen of them. So if you got fifteen guys trying to tear up five people you're really coming at us!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"And I guess that whole thing took place on concrete?"

KUSA:"There was no cardboard...none of that. It was strictly on concrete floor....your knuckles got scraped up, you maybe fell...scratch your elbows...like I said everything was to the ground and fancy footwork! At that battle you had these two girls from Bronxdale...Reeta and Dee Dee..they were sisters.....one of them has passed....but they was nasty!!!!!  I never saw any B-Girls as nasty as them in my life!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were they Shaka Zulus?"

KUSA:"No, they were just neighbourhood people (they were actually down with Mario's Chuck City Crew) but you know when you were in that circle we were all family, you understand??"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was DJing at that party?"

KUSA:"At 123? That was Bam.....and I think Disco King Mario...he had one side and Bam had the other. If I'm not mistaken because it also could have been just Bam. 123 was really Mario's spot after a while."

May 27th, 1977: The Zulu Kings battle the Shaka Zulus at JHS 123

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall whether Mario had any B-Boys back then?"

KUSA:"Yes, they had B-Boys, they had Sterl, Cleamont....they had a couple of them. I can't get all their names but I know Sterl. Sterl was Dee Dee and Reeta's brother. He was nasty with his feet, too!!! Nasty!! Nasty!!"

B-Girl Dee Dee and her brother B-Boy Sterl (The Chuck City Crew/ Bronxdale)

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it true that it was dangerous for B-Boys from outside of Bronx River to come to Bambaataa's parties back then? Like if they didn't behave accordingly they would get beaten up and have their sneakers and their silver medaillon taken from them?"

KUSA:"(chuckles) Well, I'm gonna say now that you're talking about this.....we were all in the same circle. It was like a thing...DON'T MESS UP IN BRONX RIVER!!....you know what I'm saying? Bam used to have packed parties but after a while we became real strong...Bronx River...and a lot of people they usually got their ass whipped! Like if it's packed up in there and you acted up you got it! And that's how these parties started dying down because people were scared to go there because there was always something jumping off! And it wasn't a thing that people were robbing and stealing it was a thing that once you got beat up they might take your stuff, too. That's how it was......"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess it was always safer to know somebody from Bronx River if you wanted to go there?"

KUSA:"Exactly! A lot of things were happening! Don't get me wrong! You had this brother named Spider. I don't know how you wanna put it but he held it down when it came down to armour, you know what I'm saying? And you had a brother named Crazy Mike.  He was nasty with his hands. He had the handspeed, Spider had the armour game. Spider had a crew called the Gestapos. You had D.J., a couple of them they were Gestapo."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the function of the Gestapos? Were they security or were they B-Boys?"

KUSA:"They wasn't B-Boys. Nah!!! They was just down! They was from Bronx River and if you could say they were security but ain't nobody was messing with Bronx River! Nobody!!! Nooobody! Nobody came through there and if they did, they tried they never succeeded!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When and how did all these other Zulu Kings join your ranks? I mean those that came in after the first five original members....like Pow Wow and Marcus Rockwell?"  

KUSA:"Pow Wow was already down with us. Pow Wow was down! He brought Marcus from his side. They was nasty, too! Pow Wow was nasty with his feet! Pow Wow was definetely nasty!!!! You gotta remember the Zulu Kings were first! Before even the Zulu Nation was formed! So many people wanted to be down with the Zulu Kings! That's why Bambaataa created the Zulu Nation."

Marcus Rockwell & Pow Wow (The Zulu Kings)

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was that part of the dance called that was done on top before you got down on the floor? Did you call it Top Rock or Up Rock?"

KUSA:"That thing was like a freestyle thing before you got to the floor. I don't really remember the names that you've just said. It was like a freestyle thing. You'd just do a little dance, get yourself ready before you drop, you know? It was like a freestyle thing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Back in your era it was actually very important to match the beat with your dancing, right? Today there is a lot of incredible acrobatics involved but to me it oftentimes seems as if the soul and funkyness is missing."

KUSA:"It was totally different then. We really felt it back then, you know what I'm saying. The vibe that you see now is....(chuckles)....don't get me wrong..I watch some of the new stuff...especially the Chinese guys...they're nasty with the acrobatics but it is just not the same. The original flavour is gone! It's gone, man! But it has to be that way because eveything changes its course. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what were your top five B-Boy beats to go off to back then?"

KUSA:"The number one record is "Apache" by The Incredible Bongo Band, then you got James Brown...... "Give It Up Or Turnit A Loose". Then you got "It's Just Begun"  by The Jimmy Castor Bunch...then you may have "Funky Music Is The Thing" by The Dynamic Corvettes and you had another one that I liked....it was "Listen To Me" by Baby Huey. The breakbeat on it was incredible!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I love that song, too! The way it starts out kind of slow and then gradually becomes faster.......the break at the end of it.......the whole atmosphere....."

KUSA:"That's a mean joint right there! Certain songs when they used to play them back then and you would listen to them......they would get to you!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So back then when you were partying in JHS 123 or in Bronx River those beats would move your soul?"

KUSA:"Yes they did! That's what kept me coming! The beats! And most of these records were right in your momma's house. They were right there!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of clothing would the Zulu Kings wear? Did you wear sweaters with your crew's name on it? "

KUSA:"At that time we didn't have sweatshirts. We had a T-Shirt that had "Zulu Kings" on it. Maybe one had a t-shirt with silver letters...then we had a shirt with blue or black letters. We mostly wore Lee and 69ers. Then Adidas came out a little later."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So Pro-Keds were like the B-Boys' footwear of choice back then?"

KUSA:"Yeah!! The 69ers....Maybe a little Converses, too. But Pro-Keds was definetely number one!"

Pro-Keds 69ers (from Sir Norin Rad's Sneaker collection)

  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Busy Bee Starski mentioned in that book "Yes, Yes, Y'all!" by Jim Fricke (page 52) that when he came to Bronx River for the first time cats over there were rocking ski jackets, ski hats and ski goggles. What do you remember about this?"

KUSA:"Yeah!! We had a thing called a one piece ski suit or you had a ski jacket and you wore ski goggles...like when it snowed. That was definitely a style back then. Definitely!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"And people danced in this kind of clothes?"

KUSA:"Well, some of us did but it wasn't a heavy snow suit. Later on I stopped messing with that after I had stopped breaking and then I just started dressing fresh. That came from going to a party every Friday and Saturday. Every Friday and Saturday we had a party to go to! So you can't wear the same clothes all the time. You gotta find something new. After a while it became like a style thing, you know? Like who could rock the flyest gear? Who looked better? Not who looked better but how you looked, your appearance. It was an appearance thing. You couldn't come in there sloppy!!! Nobody really in those parties came sloppy.  They was fresh! There was no bummy thing about that!!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you would cop stuff like the Italian knits, the Alpaca sweaters, the Playboys, the British Walkers, right? Would you shop at A.J. Lester's?"

KUSA:"We had a place called Jew Man's. A.J. Lester's was a little step up. Jew Man's started getting stuff like that. Then we had another spot on Freeman street called Sneaker King.. That's were we brought our stuff from 'cause we made a lot of deals with Jew Man's."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you wear Kangols?"

KUSA:"I wasn't a Kangol person. We was more into getting a hair cut, putting stuff in your hair to make it shine. Me and Poo Poo and my man Charles a.k.a. Rock we stayed fresh. It was a couple of us, man. It became a thing in the late 1970ies that we laid back now. Rock Steady and them came into the game then. B-Boys started doing headspins and stuff like that. We wasn't getting dirty and sweaty no more. It was a thing where we would just fall back, mingling with girls." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which locations would you go to in order to party after you had stopped B-Boying?"

KUSA:"We would go to the T-Connection, the Fever......then of course we would still always party in Bronx River. In the summer time there would be multiple jams." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you first notice Puerto Rican B-Boys entering the scene? Were there any notable Puerto Rican B-Boys that you remember from Bronx River? I mean Angel from Bronxdale who was down with the Shaka Zulus was obviously a Puerto Rican B-Boy?"

KUSA:"Angel was like a black Puerto Rican at that time 'cause if you look at Angel he didn't look Spanish. Now the Spanish came when Rock Steady and them came (late 1970ies)....at least in my eyes! But we had one brother named Peter Garcia...he was from Bronx River....he was Little Zambu. He was nasty with his feet,too!!! God bless the dead! Nasty!!!! Nasty!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which building was he from?"

KUSA:"Little Zambu was from 1440. There was no trouble between Blacks and Puerto Ricans in Bronx River. At that time it was love. That was it. Only outsiders who came there and acted up got in trouble. I say it like this, Bam didn't want it like that. We were like brothers. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you rate each of the original 5 Zulu Masters / Kings?"

KUSA:"When we started we was just so free with it.  Each member had his own different style. We was like a dance group...we was nasty when the parties came. We would form a circle and we would just do our thing. That's how it was! All this other stuff came later. Aziz was nasty, Shaka......all of us. We was nice! But like I said once Beaver came and I started watching him.....I don't know this boy had like rubberband legs.....Beaver was soo advanced!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when Beaver entered the scene he changed the whole game of breaking? Do you recall a battle between him and Lil Boy Keith in Bronx River?"

KUSA:"Yeah, it was over when Beaver came! He took it to another level. I mean it was difficult to see his feet. That's how fast he was moving. Lil Boy Keith never took out Beaver. It wasn't like that. Lil Boy Keith was nasty, I'm telling you! But Beaver dominated to me. Lil Boy Keith is my man but Beaver was on a different level. Keith and Marcus....they were nasty! I give them that. Probably many people think there a was a battle but as I said it was a thing that we all just got in there. By that time I had stopped already. Everybody just did their thing, you know what I'm saying?  Beaver was never defeated just like he said in his interview!"

Beaver (The Little Zulu Kings)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which role played the Hustle dance at those parties in Bronx River back then?"

KUSA:"Hustling was in there. Hustling was with the B-Boy thing. That's when the DJs would play certain things and you had a brother named Boyo! God bless the dead! I mean the way he hustled.....the girls used to wait on line to hustle with him! He was so nasty!! He could dance with two girls at the same time! Spin one arm and then another one would come. They would be waiting 'cause he was so smooth with it! He was from Bronx River....he lived in 1609....and he was Spanish....Boyo was Puerto Rican."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the Crazy 8 Zulus from Monroe? DJ Afrika Issac and DJ Afrika Little Khayan?"

KUSA:"That's my peoples, man!! Damn, how you know all of this stuff?!? They was down, they had their little set. You gotta remember I used to DJ, too! I remember when we were young DJs and we were playing in the old center and it was four rooms. I played in one, Lil Khayan and Issac played in another room.....I forgot the other crews that played in there. It was four DJs going on and my room was the most crowded and Issac their room was also very crowded. The other two in the back I can't remember but they had no crowd."

DJ Afrika Issac and DJ Afrika Little Khayan (The Crazy 8)

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you start DJing? Did Afrika Zambu teach you?"

KUSA:"Well, you know I'd say yes and no because I started doing my little thing, too, with the cutting and scratching but Zambu definitely had an influence because we used to go to his mom's house. We used his mom's stereo and I would take my mom's stereo and  bring it downstairs. At that time we didn't have a mixer we just turned the knob up and down. That's when it was starting." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have been told that Afrika Zambu was Afrika Bambaataa's first DJ partner along with a gentleman by the name of DJ Sinbad.

KUSA:"Yes, Sinbad was the soundman. He actually DJed a little bit, too."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Then later on Afrika Islam and DJ Jazzy Jay replaced them, right? They adapted to that new style of DJing which involved the backspin that had been invented by Grandmaster Flash....."

KUSA:"Exactly! And Grandwizard Theodore!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shout outs at the end of this interview?"

KUSA:"I would like to shout out my family! Brent, Bolo, Bert, Joey Crack, Timmy, TB, Mike, Rock, Tony Rome and the rest of my brothers and sisters from Bronx River."