Interview with B-Boy Jojo (The Rock Steady Crew)

                    Interview with B-Boy Jojo ( The Crazy Commanders / The Rock Steady Crew)

                                               

B-Boy Jojo (The Crazy Commanders / The Rock Steady Crew)

                                  conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Boogie Down Bronx are you originally?"

JOJO:"I grew up on the West Side of the Bronx which was on Tremont Avenue.......Tremont & Grand which where I lived at was upper Grand Avenue 'cause Grand Avenue and Davidson Avenue cut right through Tremont Avenue and they had a lower Grand Avenue and a upper Grand Avenue and I was living on the upper Grand Avenue. So it was on the West Side of the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were you also born in the Bronx?"

JOJO:"No, I was born in Manhattan.....Metropolitan Hospital...on 3rd Avenue there and I lived in Manhattan until 1970, that's when I moved up to the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which year were you born?"

JOJO:"1964."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where and when did you witness B-Boying for the first time?"

JOJO:"Okay, well let me just start off by starting how I even got into dancing and it will lead to  that, okay?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yes." 

JOJO:"It started when I was very young. My mother and my father got married and my father went to job corps. He became a welder and he came back to get his family which we were little kids at the time and he took us up to Boston, Massachusetts. We had a house and we lived there for about a year and then he died in a car accident. So my moms couldn't afford to keep the house so we had to move back to New York City. So when we moved back to New York City we really was out of a place. You know, we needed a place fast, we didn't know where.....and there was this Black lady....her name was Miss Vern Tucker.....she was a good friend of my grandmother for years and she offered to take us in and we lived with her for a few years until we got back on our feet  and she became my grandmother. So her family had parties and I can truly say that my flavour and my dance spirit and all that came from being at these house parties that they used to throw and we were a part of it.We were there at these parties that they used to throw at Christmas, Thanksgiving......we were also there at their birthday parties. And slowly but surely Miss Vern Tucker became my grandma, you know what I'm saying?  And her family became my cousins and that's where my flavour came from when I lived in Manhattan. I used to just dance, I used to just do steps on top  and they'd be like, "Go, Jojo! Go, Jojo!!" and actually she is the one that came up with the name Jojo. So that's where that came from. So finally we found a place in the Bronx and we moved up to the Bronx and that's where it all started for me. I lived there from 1970 till 1984. So while I lived there, there was a kid that lived in my building on Grand Avenue, his name was Mark. Black kid, he lived upstairs and I lived on the first floor. So one day I was at a jam... a DJ Whitehead jam (DJ of The Triple A Crew) at 82 Park...so I'm just chilling, hanging out and all of a sudden I see Mark and Mark is Breaking!!! And that was the first time I seen somebody do footwork, so I was like, "Holy crap!" You know, he was pretty good and I just looked at it and I went and I approached him. I said, "That's kinda nice! I like that!" And he's like, "Do you get down?" 'Cause that's what we called it back then.....we called it getting down. He said, "Do you get down?" I said, "Yeah, I get down!" He said, "Can you show me?" So I did some stuff that I just knew but he said, "That's not getting down! This is getting down!!" and so he went down and did these moves. I was flabbergasted when I first seen it, I was like, "Wow! I'm gonna really learn that!" So I went home and I practiced so the next time he would see me I actually had my footwork already. It was something for me to catch it and I caught it quick and it went from there.  I just kept on practicing and practicing Then I started noticing more B-Boys and witnessing more circles and that's when I was in Public School 26 on Burnside Avenue. After I left there I wasn't really dancing like in a crew or nothing like that. Then I moved to JHS 115 in the Bronx and that's when I really started exhibiting my style of dancing and all that because I got actually kinda good at it and then I used to come out at lunch time and there was always some B-Boys breaking. Like a circle and people would come out for lunch and watch and then everybody would go back in. So I ate B-Boys for lunch and that's how I met Aby (The Bronx Boys). You know, he used to come around and he always used to have somebody with him and there was always somebody dancing. DJ Cisco (Power Sounds) used to show up with his box and everybody used to be out there and that's probably when Aby witnessed me for the first time. So I remember one time he approached me and asked me.....this is what leads to that battle in the South Bronx in the Dungeon between Starchild La Rock and TDK (late 1978)....he asked me do I want to help TDK. So I was like, "Yeah, I'm down. Pick me up! I'll be waiting for you!" So I waited and waited and waited but he never showed up. At the time I was waiting I had gotten hold of Spy and Spy used to always like a challenge. I said, "Come on, we can go over there and get busy!" He said, "Alright!" I said,"Look, Aby never got a hold of me. I'm gonna walk, I'm pissed off. I'm gonna make my way out there." He said, "Alright, I'm gonna meet you out there! I'm gonna hitch the bus." That's what he did. So he hitched the bus over while I was walking. I walked down Arthur Avenue and I ran into Trac 2. I didn't know he was Trac 2 at the time. He was dressed like a B-Boy so I asked him, "Yo, you know where there's a B-Boy battle?" and he told me, "Yeah!" and then he asked me, "Why?" So I told him who I was and why I was going there and he said, "Yo, can I speak to you for a minute?" I was like, "Yeah." So he explained to me that it was just his group (Starchild La Rock) that was going against three other groups (TDK, TBB and Rockwell Association) and then he explained some more to me how they all wanted to take his crew out. So I said,"You know what? I'm kinda upset that this guy never picked me up." You know, I had nothing bad to say about Aby or nothing like that, that's just the way it was. Unfortunately, he told me to meet him and he just left me hanging. That kinda got me mad, so I  went on my own. That lead to me meeting Trac 2 and I told Trac 2, "You know what, I'm gonna help you out instead." He was like, "Really?" I said, "Yeah, and I got my boy Spy coming." None of these guys knew Spy until I brought him there. We were the only two CC Crew B-Boys there at that battle. We got there, as we were walking people wanted to know where that battle was.....actually we had a little crowd following us up on Tremont Avenue. We got to Belmont Avenue... made that right on to Belmont Avenue. Walked down the block, on the left hand side was the Dungeon. We got to the Dungeon, we got inside, you know, all of a sudden I saw Spy, so we met up with Spy. So we were all there, talking. Next thing you know I saw Aby and Batch on the other side. They were getting their guys together. All of a sudden Batch saw me, he stopped and said,"Yo, what the fuck are you doing over there?" Then Aby looked over to me and said,"Yo, Jojo! What's up? What you're doing over there?" And I said,"You know, man, you never came to get me so I'm gonna help them out." So I ended up helping Trac 2 and his crew. So we stayed on Trac 2's side and that's when that battle began. Trac's guys actually went out and battled and then when the good guys started to come out,  that's when me and Spy came out and got busy. At the end we ended up winning that battle and that was the history of that battle."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please elaborate on those B-Boy sessions that took place at JHS 115? Like where exactly did the dancing take place at and who were the DJs?"

JOJO:"The battles that I told you about when Aby came around and where I used to come out for lunch that was on the Morris Avenue side of JHS 115. But the DJing.....when they started DJing they took it to the front of the school which would be on the 181st side between Morris and Creston Avenue. They used to block off the top stairs there with tables. If you wasn't down you couldn't go back there and my man DJ Ray Ski used to DJ there all the time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Wizard Wiz (TDK) told me about DJ Ray Ski. He also used to DJ at the Aqueduct, right?"

JOJO:"Yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What exactly is the Aqueduct?"

JOJO:"It was just a little walkway that was like in between the buildings, between the blocks. It goes from Tremont by University Avenue.....that's where the Aqeduct begins..and it goes all the way down to almost 184th Street or a little further. It almost ends by Fordham Road I think. Like you can go from Fordham Road and walk the Aqueduct and it'll take you all the way down to University & Tremont. It would be a few blocks. Like if you took the train...you would take the train from 176th Street to Fordham Road. That's the length of the Aqueduct."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So where exactly would DJ Ray Ski set up his equipment there? Was there a park?"

JOJO:"There were certain areas over there where they had like little sockets 'cause all the lamps that lit up the Aqueduct had a little box on the bottom. They were screwed tight but you would unscrew it and there's an electrical socket in there. All you had to do was plug up and that was it. You got juice! They used to find those lamps, take the thing off, plug up, take your extension cord and set up everything. Set up their equipment and do it there."   

SIR NORIN RAD:"The 12 O'Clock Crew also used to hang out there, right?"

JOJO:"Exactly. Well, the 12 O'Clock Crew ran 183rd Street. They used to say, "What's the word? 183rd!" You know, the 12 O'Clock used to run that. Like we was also affiliated with them. We never had any beef 'cause they knew us and we knew them. They was like down the block. They were on 183rd Street, we were on 184th Street. We were kool. We'd see each other at the jams. They were more like stick-up kids. They never tried anything with us but they did their thing to get their money. That's just how it was back then. You really had to know the area, you had to know who to talk to. They could get you in a building, they could get you outside. It was just crazy."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let's go back for a minute to the time when you started out as a B-Boy. Your first B-Boy partner was a guy called Spiderweb, correct? Moreover, is it true that Jojo wasn't your first B-Boy name?"

JOJO:"No, my first name was Spiderman. It was Spiderman and Spiderweb. That was my partner."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you meet him and how long did you stay together as partners?"

JOJO:"He was in my class. We was in school together for three years....JHS 115. We became good friends and then when he found out that I could dance, you know, he started coming around and he just picked it up and I started teaching him and so he became my partner. Then his two brothers  got down....Freddy and Angel... and my brother (Easy Mike) met them and we formed a little team. That little team used to go over to the Herc jams on Sedgwick Avenue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's very interesting! You were featured in that documentary "The Freshest Kids" and you stated there something to the effect that you were actually already B-Boying when there were hardly any Puerto Ricans around doing that dance...."

JOJO:"That's exactly what I'm meaning. What I'm telling you now that's what I meant when I said that. We were the only Puerto Ricans that got busy. Now DJ Kool Tee and DJ Mr. Lee (early DJs from the West Bronx) used to give us our respect and say, "Check out the Puerto Rican B-Boys in the house! B-Boy Spiderman and B-Boy Spiderweb!" And we got busy and that was way back.  Back then there were a lot of Zulu B-Boys around. They sorta ran it back then. As for the Puerto Rican B-Boys we were just up and coming. You know, we were people who wanted to learn it and got good at it 'cause, you know, they say Puerto Ricans actually put B-Boys on their back. We're the ones that started the backspinning and all these kind of moves. As far as the footwork and the flip turns that they did....that came from the Black B-Boys."

DJ Kool Tee and DJ Mr. Lee rocking the Mount Vernon Boy's Club (Date: March 3rd, 1978)

 

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did DJ Kool Tee and DJ Mr. Lee throw their jams at?"

JOJO:"That was at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue. It was the same spot where Kool Herc used to rock. DJ Kool Tee would be DJing by the 1520 side and then Kool Herc would set up his equipment on the 1600 side. It was in between the buildings. One building was 1520, the other building was 1600. DJ Kool Tee and DJ Mr. Lee would set up their equipment and play till five and then Kool Herc would come out with the Herculoids. You know what they say about Kool Herc and The Herculoids, right? People used to think that The Herculoids were his crew but the Herculoids were his speakers. It was his shit that he brought out. That was the Herculoids!!! He used to come out and set up his soundsystem. We were like, "Damn!! Look at his speakers!!!" You know, his speakers were big! DJ Kool Tee had the small shit but his shit did enough for us to enjoy ourselves. Everybody that was outside enjoyed the music and then as soon as he started packing up his shit Kool Herc would be setting up. So we were like, "Let's go over there! Herc is setting up over there!" "Oh, there's another jam after this????" "Yeah!" "Oh, no doubt!" Go get some pizza, go chill out for a minute and then come back and they got the jam all set up. We were ready to go!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Before you participated in that battle of Starchild La Rock against TDK at the Dungeon you had joined Spy's crew which was called The Crazy Commanders. How did that come about?"

JOJO:"Okay, this is how it happened. I was a known B-Boy and Cisco was a known DJ.  He used to DJ at 82 Park, too, just like DJ Whitehead. It was either DJ Cisco and DJ Bucko or DJ Whitehead. They used to come out all the time. He was also sorta involved in B-Boying. He was always hanging out with B-Boys and he wanted them to do things for him as far as like, "Battle this one and battle that one!" And if you didn't he would get mad and that's what he did to me. He got upset 'cause I ended up being friends with Shorty Rock and Spy after we battled. I ended up joining their crew. He said, "Nah, don't join them!" I said, "I'm sorry, B, but I join them, I like them." So he was like, "Ah, fuck that!" So he got mad and he left and that was it. Other than that when I first met him Cisco was the one that came and he said, "There's a group up the block from you. They're the best of this area!" So I was like, "What? Who?" He said,"There's a group up there called The CC Crew." I said, "Where??" He said,"Right up there by Harrison Avenue!" They lived right up the block. He said, "Come on I want you to meet them!" So I grabbed my brother B-Boy Easy Mike and we went up there to meet them. So we got there and it was just like in those karate movies. We got there and there were guys the front of the building just sitting there and I said,"Excuse me, where can I find B-Boy Spot?" He said, "B-Boy Spot? There ain't no B-Boy Spot. You mean B-Boy Spy." I said, "Yeah!" He said, "Why?" I said, "Tell him B-Boy Jojo and B-Boy Easy Mike we're here! Tell him we come to battle!" So he runs upstairs. Me and Easy Mike we walk inside the building and we're standing there. The building as soon as you walked in..it was a long straight hallway about 12 feet wide and like 30 feet long from the elevator to the front door. So it was kinda wide for Breaking. On each side of the elevator there was a staircase, so you can go up there through the stairs or take the elevator. So what happened was they went and got Spy. All of a sudden you heard a ruckus, many people were coming down from both staircases. This reminded you of a karate movie how the two guys come to challenge the master.    It was just like that! Their people ran to this side, ran to the other side and Shorty Rock and Spy walked down like they were the masters. They walked right down and these cats were all lined up. I was standing there looking at Easy Mike, he was looking at me and then Spy goes, "Who're you??" I said,"I'm Jojo. This is my brother Easy Mike. What's good?" He said, "What do you want?" I said, "We come to battle!" He said, "Really?" I said, "Yeah! Box!" And we went in, we started battling.

Shorty Rock (The Crazy Commanders)

 

What happened was there were two styles colliding 'cause we sorta had the six-step but it was the tucked in, short version where you're like tucked in but you move real fast. They had the long six-step. It comes out where, you know, you stretch out a little while you're still doing those steps. That's the first time I seen that style. I remember practicing with Spy and he was trying to show me the chair freeze, the figure four. This is before I met Trac 2. Spy showed me how to put my leg over, I never knew about that. I remember having a hard time, I kept dropping and dropping until I finally got it how to twist my body, to have my body like stay in one spot but my leg to switch over to land on the other side. I learnt that from him. You know, he taught me that. Me and Spy became real good friends. I used to wake this guy up in the morning. I would come to his house, Spy used to be sleeping...I would come to the building, go to a side window in the hallway, go out to the fire escape, go up to the second floor, open up this ni**er's window and go right into his room and this ni**er would pop his head out of his blanket with all that fucking hair (laughs). I would be like,  "Hey, what's up!?!"  and we would sit there, maybe blaze a joint or something and talk for a minute. Then he would get up and that was it. A lot of times when I didn't go to school and we played hooky we would meet up to drink a 40. We were bugged out kids back then but that's what we did, you know what I'm saying? So I would pick him up and we would hang out and that's how we did it. So that's my association with the CC Crew. After a while the CC Crew diminished and they weren't doing anything no more and so Spy started meeting some of the other people. Like Jimmy Lee and them they were from my side of town. They were like from Macombs Road which was up the block from Grand Avenue and Featherbed Lane and that area. That's were G-Man and Sunkist Evie and Coco and all those people came from and Jimmy Lee was part of that group  and then Spy was on that side of town, too. So them, Spy and us were all on that side and we all became good friends and then we moved it from there to 184th Street..... Field Place. That's where we started hanging and that's where the Rock Steady Crew really got his birth at right there. That block is where we started hanging right there!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who won that battle between Easy Mike and you and the Crazy Commanders the in the hallway?"

JOJO:"It ended in a tie."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What comes to your mind when you think of Spy back in the 1970s? What was so special about him as a B-Boy and a human being in general?"

JOJO:"He had an aura around him. He was just outstanding as a dancer, you know? And he didn't really need to show off. He was a humble guy. Don't get the ni**er mad......don't get it twisted, he wasn't a punk, he'd whip a ni**er's ass in a minute but he was a humble dude when it came to dancing. If you came and needed help on behalf of dancing he would be willing to help. That's just how he was and he was just cool about it."

B-Boy Spy (The Crazy Commanders)

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did your brother Easy Mike get into B-Boying? Did he follow you because you are his older brother?"

JOJO:"I think my brother was a little bit ahead of me and he's my younger brother. What I mean by ahead of me..he was a little bit more out there. I think he was dancing before me.....to be honest.See my brother was more like....his strong point was comedy. He would serve you with funny shit. He was sorta like how The Ni**er Twins was. They did comedy in their dance and their routines. His routines were something like that, you know? So that's where his strong point was, making you look stupid on the dancefloor without doing a lot of power and spins and shit like that. So he went that way and I went totally the opposite. I went to like skills and style and finesse. That's why we were like two completely different B-Boys. When we were together it was a team effort. I had the styles, he had the comedy and you had to beat both of them in order to win."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you share a room in your house? Would you practice at home, too?"

JOJO:"Well, my house in the Bronx was the base for all of the practicing. I would practice right in my living room. We was like poor, you know? My moms worked a lot, you know just so we could have a good life. My moms was my mother and my father. She was both to me. When she went to work she used to leave at 6 o' clock in the morning and wouldn't be back till 6 o'clock in the night. So if I went to school and I got home at 3 o' clock I had three hours to practice before she got home. I had to make sure everybody was out of the house by the time she got there. So we practiced a lot in the house."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I think you once told me that your brother did not always go by the name of Easy Mike. What was he called before that?"

JOJO:"Big Boy Baretta."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did that name come from?"

JOJO:"Like I said he was very out there. So he changed his name a lot. Like when he wrote graffiti he wrote See 2. That was his graffiti name. And then when he was dancing it went from Big Boy Baretta to Easy Mike. Actually, when we met Spy he was still Big Boy Baretta and I was still Spiderman. We changed our names when we got older."

B-Boy Easy Mike and B-Boy Jojo

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were you a Writer back then, too?"

JOJO:"I really didn't do too much graffiti but when I did I wrote Maze 176."

SIR NORIN RAD:"It seems that in your era it was a common thing among B-Boys to get up even if it just meant to carry around a Uni-Wide or a Pilot marker and to tag up your name wherever you went."

JOJO:"Yeah, see this is the difference between today and my generation. My era...we did it all. I DJed, I MCed, I used to do graffiti, I used to dance. I was an all around B-Boy, that means I did it all."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"How old were you when you met Spy?"

JOJO:"13, 14. I was around that age."

SIR NORIN RAD:"If that's okay with you I would like to address a highly controversial topic now namely that of the inception of the Rock Steady Crew."

JOJO:"Yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let me start by telling you what I have been told so far about the creation of that very prestigious crew. I have been told that the Rock Steady Crew was started in late 1979, not in 1977. I have also been told that Jimmy Dee and Jimmy Lee who started out as TBB members went to Batch at that meeting in 1979 when he broke up the TBB Crew and told him that they wanted to started a new crew but at the same time continue the legacy of TBB. That's why they had on their brown sweatshirts which featured their names on the front and then at the bottom of the "Rock Steady Crew " in the back of the T-Shirt  it read "TBB". What is your take on that?"

JOJO:"As far as Rock Steady I don't wanna step on nobody's toes or say shit that ain't true but I don't remember that. Jimmy Dee and Jimmy Lee....I taught both of these cats how to dance! I'm not saying I taught them everything they know but the fundamentals came from me. The fundamentals how you got started and then you took it from there. I also remember vividly being in Jimmy Dee's room when we came up with the name "Rock Steady Crew", you know? 'Cause at that time we had a group called The Untouchable Four B-Boys and this was before Rock Steady, you know what I'm saying? There was other B-Boys that wanted to get down with the Untouchable Four but we couldn't do it 'cause see the name was The Untouchable Four, so it only had four members. The reason why I say this is because I remember the t-shirt that said "Untouchable" and then "4". That's like way back. Rock Steady came out of the Untouchable Four. Back then as far as leadership is concerned there wasn't nobody looked upon as the one leader of the Rock Steady Crew. I was still part of Rock Steady when Jimmy Lee got in trouble and he left and me and Jimmy Dee...we were considered the founders and we went to Lincoln Center (where the Rock Steady Crew battled the Dynamic Rockers in 1981). Why you think I was there? Why you think everybody was standing around me when they took a picture of us standing there? I have no problem with giving credit to TBB and I can't say that no TBB members became members of Rock Steady later on like Popeye. I remember Popeye, he got down with us but he came from TBB. But all this came from us hanging out on 184th Street. We were all friends. Those guys were from that area. They didn't come from TBB in the South Bronx, they came from Davidson Avenue, Burnside Avenue, Grand Avenue. They came from the West Side of the Bronx where I was from, you know what I'm saying? Like Rum 6......Jerry was his name..he lived right there in that building on the corner of Davidson Avenue & Fordham Avenue, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, I can say many TBB members later on became members of the Rock Steady Crew. In fact I once put out an article on the creation of Rock Steady and many of the original members listed there where down with TBB before. I guess that's why when Aby and them saw that they were like, "Yeah, this is why RSC came from TBB!" It didn't come from TBB. Those guys were down because we put them down. They wanted to be down with Rock Steady. Not that they were all TBB members and we just started the Rock Steady Crew.  Rock Steady got started outside of TBB, it didn't get started within TBB, you know what I'm saying? This is what the argument is about. I was never a member of TBB and I have never seen a Rock Steady shirt and a TBB shirt together. I heard about that, too, and that's not true. There was a Rock Steady shirt....the main colours were brown and white and black and yellow. Those were the main Rock Steady colours. Don't let nobody tell you otherwise. Those were the main colours. I was there when we went to Frank's and got them t-shirts made.....at Frank's Sporting Goods. I had my brown and white Rock Steady shirt and I got my black and yellow Rock Steady shirt. I got both of them."    

SIR NORIN RAD:"So how did you meet Jimmy Dee and Jimmy Lee?"

JOJO:"Ok, this is how it all started.....Jimmy Dee...I meet him through Ricky Dee. Ricky Dee was a DJ, he had DJ equipment. So that's how I met Ricky Dee 'cause I went to one of  the jams where he was  DJing. Then I met Jimmy Dee through Ricky Dee. So we all became friends. At that time Jimmy Dee wasn't no B-Boy. Like I said I taught him 'cause he knew I was a B-Boy. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did Ricky Dee DJ at?"

JOJO:"Not too many places. He would DJ at house parties and sometimes he would do it in front of his building. Now as far as Jimmy Lee goes, me and Jimmy Lee had a big fight on Halloween. After that I didn't see him for a few months and then one day I was at another DJ Whitehead jam at 82 park and I served some kid when I got up I saw that Jimmy Lee was there. He wasn't Jimmy Lee then, he was just Jimmy, you know what I'm saying? He came walking over and I said to myself,"Don't tell me I have to fight this kid again." He came to me and said,"Hey, you think you can teach me how to dance like that?" I was like, "Yeah, man. You wanna learn?" He's like,"Yeah!" I said, "Just come to my house, I live on Grand Avenue. Meet me here tomorrow and I'll show you." Sure enough he showed up the next day and we started practicing and like I said I showed him the fundamentals. Same thing with Jimmy Dee."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let us please talk about the year in which the Rock Steady Crew was created. Obviously, since you were still down with the Crazy Commanders at that Dungeon Battle in late 1978, Rock Steady's birth cannot have taken place in 1977."

JOJO:"The misconception about the year......Yeah, I might have got the years mixed up and I'm gonna be honest. I remember the Blackout and that was in 1977. That's what I remember and I thought it ( the creation of Rock Steady) happened around that time but I could be wrong. Rock Steady could have started in 1979."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was Crazy Legs among the original members of the Rock Steady Crew of 1979?"

JOJO:"No, he wasn't. He never did anything with us."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, but what about the battle of Crazy Legs and his cousin Lenny Len had against Jimmy Dee and Jimmy Lee in 1979 in order to join Rock Steady?"

JOJO:"I wasn't there and I don't remember this happening in 1979."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the original hang out spot of the Rock Steady Crew? I guess that Rock Steady Park on 98th Street & Amsterdam Avenue in Manhattan came later in the early 1980s, right?"

JOJO:"Yes, that was the second generation's stomping ground. The first generation's hang out spot was 115. We was hanging out at 115 and when me and Jimmy Dee put those words "Rock Steady Crew" together, we was on Anthony Avenue..right there by Echo Park. Right where Jimmy Dee lived at, in his room. I also used to teach Jimmy Dee in his room. He had a carpet in his room, I couldn't spin there but I used to teach him in his room. That's where the name Rock Steady Crew came up and we ran with that from then on. Jimmy Lee wasn't even there. There was also a building across the street that we had a club house in. In the building 111 on the first floor Rock Steady had a club house there. We had a club house in that abandoned building. Then there was fire and the whole building burnt down and to this day it's still an empty building. Who can tell you this?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your top breakbeats to go off to back in the 1970ies?"

JOJO:"Back then of course it was "Apache". That was the first one and then after that it was "It's Just Begun" and after that it was "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose" by James Brown. What's another dope one? There was a jam called "Blow Your Head" by Fred Wesley & The J.B.'s Yeah, those were my top breakbeats." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you! And who do you consider to be the best three B-Boys from your era?"

JOJO:" I can only tell you from my experience. I can't tell you that much what was going on in the South Bronx with Starchild La Rock, TDK, TBB, Rockwell and all of them. As far as on my side of town it was Spy, me and Shorty Rock. My brother was also a very good B-Boy.We were the ones that were locking it down in my area." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"You said that when you first met Trac 2 you knew that he was a B-Boy by the way he was dressed. How did B-Boys dress during your era?"

JOJO:"Well, first of all your baseball cap was always to the side or backwards, it was never forward. Back then when we were young we were poor kids so we really didn't have the best clothes. So back then most of the B-Boys were kinda bummy. When we got older we were the ones that took the term "fresh" and turned it around to "being fresh". You know, like our Adidas were clean. We were like, "If you step on my shoes I kill you!" We were taught on keeping our gear fresh. That term "fresh" came from us! So we took that image of being bummy and turned it around to being fly and dancing and being fly and still getting up and being clean. We ironed our pants with Niagara starch, you know what I'm saying? I mean we had the crease, the killer crease. The Adidas suits were firm... all that. Another thing we used to do 'cause we were into straight legs...straight legs looked a little bit more stylish when it came to Breaking...so we used to tie our shit with laces along the legs. We used to take one sock and fold it up and put it into our socks so the front of my sneakers would look busted out really fat and shit. We did all that. I mean I'm the type of person you'll never catch me wearing an Adidas shirt with Nike sneakers."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So dressing fresh or fly was part of the B-Boy identity?"

JOJO:"Yeah, that's where "fresh" came from. You know, (raps) "cold chillin' at a party in a B-Boy stance!" How do you chill in a B-Boy stance if you're not fresh? You had to have style 'cause you know if you was a B-Boy and you was a bum they had pity for you like, "That ni**er is dirty. You see his pants? What's wrong with him??" and then you would get help. Other B-Boys would look out for you. They'd be like, "I let you rock these tonight! Wear these sneakers!" or whatever, whatever. But we didn't have to that 'cause after a while we started to get our gear together."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give any shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

JOJO:"Yes, I'd liketo give a shoutout that was involved back then. Mad love and respect to Aby and Batch. Trace 2...may he and all the other guys that have passed over the years rest in peace.I wanna give a shoutout to my man Spy. I hope he'll be out soon. We got a lot of work to do. Shoutouts to everybody else that supports this. We love you 'cause this is our culture, this is our life! Shoutouts to my crew of today..Original Skillz!! Shoutouts to Kevski and B-Boy Concrete Monkey. Shout outs to Sting Like A Bee Prez B and Alora. I also appreciate you, Norin, for the interviews that you are doing. Oh yeah, one more thing..shoutouts to my wife Lorrie for supporting me from day one. Love ya Baby! "

 

 

   

Interview with B-Boy Voodoomaster Herb

                                                  Interview with B-Boy Voodoomaster Herb

                                                                               

Voodoomaster Herb

                                        conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany) 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly in Harlem did you grow up at?

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, actually it was two parts. There was the Bronx and Harlem 'cause I was in the Bronx first, then I moved to Harlem.

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were born in the Bronx?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which part of the Bronx?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I was born in the South Bronx, around Prospect Avenue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when did you move to Harlem?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, now this is tricky. At a very young age we moved to Harlem but then we moved back to the Bronx. So we'll go by when I moved back to Harlem and stayed. 1975 is when I moved back to Harlem and stayed there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where in Harlem did you live at then?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"145th Street."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's the Sugar Hill section, correct?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, that is. That's the Sugar Hill section. West Harlem."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of music was being played at your house when you were growing up?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, it was pretty much everything!  You know, we had Al Green....Stax, Atlantic.....you know the label that Aretha Franklin was on......Rufus Thomas, of course James Brown. Everybody played James Brown!!  You had Black Ivory, Blue Magic, The Delfonics...there were all sorts of R&B bands out back then and it was wonderful. The music was beautiful!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were listening to both the uptempo funky joints and the smooth slow joints?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you witness Breaking for the first time? How old were you then?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"For the first time it's kinda hard to say, you know, because it's been woven in into the urban culture so long! 'Cause I mean if you go back to documentaries where you see Sammy Davis Jr. .......he did it also!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"He had that exquisite footwork...."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!! And he had ground techniques!! So like I said it's been woven in into the urban culture, it just carried all the way over into the Hiphop Culture but my first experience with it.....with me getting down.....was when I first met Mark....Puppetmaster (the legendary B-Boy Puppetmaster from the Shaka Zulus). I mean I knew a little about it but when I saw him it was like the wow factor! This is how good he was!!!(excited)"

SiR NORIN RAD:"Damn!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, he was like the wow factor!! I was okay, I know I was good but then you have some people that are exceptional and that was my man Mark, the Puppetmaster!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe that occasion when Puppetmaster showed you his B-Boy Skills for the very first time!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:" I met him through this guy Doug. Doug wasn't a B-Boy, Doug was a friend of his and a friend of mine. We were walking one day and that was back in the 1970ies when you would carry your boom box with you and we were walking down 145th Street going towards Riverside and we had a tape in the boom box and that's when I first saw Puppetmaster dance. And it was the wow factor! I was like, "Holy shit! This dude is nice!!!" 'cause he did stuff I had never seen before!"

B-Boy Puppetmaster (The Shaka Zulus)

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall what kind of moves he did?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, you know, you do your basic introduction moves on top. Crossing your legs and everything..... but when you go down on the floor it's the combination that makes your style unique and that's what he had! He had a certain combination. You know, you had a lot of B-Boys when they go down the initial moves are the same and then you always gonna have those special moves that sort of separates you from everybody else. And you know, that's what I didn't have at first. I mean I was good and I had certain moves but when I saw him I was like, "Wow! I gotta get on my game!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the process through which you build up your B-Boy skills."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, the gift was already there 'cause like I said growing up I always seeen it. You know, there was always one person competing with another and I used to look at it and I'd be like, "Oh man, I could take that guy out!!" You know, and then I would get down there and I would do my thing and that's how my name started surfacing 'cause they would be like, "Yo, this guy Voodooo is nice!" I thought I was really good till I met Mark (Puppetmaster) That's when I said,"Okay, I gotta brush up on my game!" And even there were a lot of moves that he did that I incorporated with mine....I was like, "I gotta get that!!" That's what we called biting back then (laughs). He was that good! I mean there were a lot of guys that were almost as good as him but when it came to competition he pulled a rabbit out of his hat!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you and Puppetmaster became good friends real fast?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh, right on the spot!! Yeah, right on the spot till today! I'm in Virginia now so whenever I go to New York I call him before I get there, "I'm coming up to New York!" We hook up and that's it, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you remember which year that was when you became acquainted with the Puppetmaster?" 

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh yeah, that was about 1975 or 1976. I know it was before the Blackout of 1977."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you practice at?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You know, back then in the Hiphop Culture the B-Boy connection was.....you were always around it 'cause back then there was always a party going on somewhere. I mean they'd hook their system up to the street light and you'd be out in the park all night. You know, you always knew somebody else. I had cousins that were B-Boys and everything so we'd go to the hallway and practice our moves 'cause it was a natural thing that you already had, you understand? To incorporate something else into your repertoire was always good because it wasn't as rehearsed as stuff is now! It was all natural! Everything now is so rehearsed! You can see that it is rehearsed!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"To me it seems that many so called B-Boys of today actually lack soul...."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!! There was one thing I was watching and you know what the gymnastics do on a horse??? This guy's whole ground routine was that!!! I mean it just took so much away from the B-Boy experience 'cause it's like.....this is not B-Boying, this is gymnastics!!! These days they're not in rhythm or anything!!! When you were listening to the music and you were a B-Boy back then your moves were part of that music! Your movement was music, you understand? It was on time, in rhythm and in step. It was undeniable but now all these slips and everything and they're counting moves.......I call it counting moves!! I laugh at it.......I mean Harlem and the Bronx....all these urban areas, they were real rough. So you couldn't get a lot of people to come in and document this visually. This is the only disadvantage we had, if it got to the point where you could have documented us visually you would have been amazed by what you saw!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were some of the venues in Harlem that you would dance at?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, well we would always go to East Harlem. I mean my crew we were from West Harlem but we didn't stay in one particular area, we were all over East Harlem. For B-Boys you had the Renaissance Ballroom and you had the Audubon Ballroom of course!!!! That was my stage...the Audubon!!! I always killed the competition there at the Audubon and then you had a lot of rec centers that were turned into clubs after hours on the weekends. Mark (Puppetmaster) started taking me over to the Bronx to meet the Zulus. That was my first encounter with them.  You also had a lot of stuff going on in the projects. Like I said they'd take their DJ equipment out, hook it up to the lamp post and you'd be out there all night. St. Nicholas Park was one of these spots. And of course between 146th and 147th Street in Manhattan...in between Amsterdam & Broadway...we had a little park over there. I can't remember the school.....163 I believe it was... we had that yard! Puppetmaster used to always appear there. He would go off and I would go off as well but we never competed against each other. So many people wanted to see that but we never competed against each other! Like he had a protege named Anthony and I had a protege named Ace. You know, we sent them to compete with each other...waiting for us to interfere and jump in..then the other one would jump in but it just never happened!! (laughs)"

The Audubon Ballroom

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like to come to a party at Bronx River Center for the first time?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Bronx River, man! That was an experience! I mean there were so many cats! First I was too intimidated to do anything. You know, I'm not gonna lie! You had Cholly Rock, Beaver.....and there were even some females....Trina (RIP), Taste (RIP), Natalie......there were a lot of  females that were nice so I was looking and I tried to feel it out at first, then when it started coming to almost the end I said to myself, "Well, you know no better time than now!" So I went down and did my stuff. What I did was impressive enough to be able to come back and do what I do. It was fun." 

 SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you go there? Did you take a cab?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"No, we took the train."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did that party take place inside of the Bronx River Center or outside of it?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"My first experience was inside the center 'cause I believe it was winter time. Bambaataa was DJing, it was inside and I 'd be doing that all winter. Then I used to see DJ Mario outside...in the back of the center. Mario used to have that coffin with his turntables in there and everything and this just caught me. He had his system in a coffin. It was weird!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What went through your mind back then when you were approaching Bronx River Center hearing those beats from blocks away?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh, you were anxious to get there. You know, you're real anxious when you hear it, especially when it's a sound that you're familiar with. That would be the sound that you can break to.  You would be like, "Oh man!!!!!!!" Then you would start to put a little pep in your step to get there to see who's already on the floor doing what they're doing, you understand? So you could go ahead and do your thing. It was always that anxious feeling once you hear it because you'd hear it from blocks away.  I mean these guys had some serious systems!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How many B-Boy circles would usually form there inside of Bronx River Center?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You'd see at least tree, four circles! You know everybody else would be dancing......doing regular dancing or doing The Hustle but you would see at least three or four B-Boy circles. This is one thing about B-Boys.....not too many B-Boys wanted to start the circle off. They wanted to see what somebody else got before they go and display their skills. So everybody waiting around to see who goes first, you know? And then that's how it started. They would set it off. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"What went through your mind when a truly nice B-Boy jumped into the circle and did his thing?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, this is how it is with B-Boys back then...like I said a lot of things were never rehearsed back then. You did have signature moves but what you did...everything was pretty much off the top of your head. You got down on that floor and the only thing that you would have to remember is what you did that made everybody like stand up on their feet like, "Wooooooow!!!" You know, you just had to remember what it was that you did. Then.....the funny thing about it is...then you would go home and practice it. You would do it first...like something you even surprized yourself doing it...'cause that's how B-Boying was back then.....spontaneous, it wasn't something rehearsed. You'd just get down there, you'd do what you do, then you'd get up and he'd go down there and do his stuff and in that instant you had to think of something better than that. See that's a true B-Boy, you know, where you can make something up right there on the spot!!!! And that's the difference between what they do now and what we used to do back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did B-Boys typically wear back in your era?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You know, back then Levi's wasn't the big jeans! Lee were the big jeans!!!!! (chuckles) Bell bottom Lees, Pro-Keds or you might have your Playboys on or your British Walkers. But see that's the thing about a B-Boy...it doesn't matter what you had on. If you were called out no matter what you had on you would get down on that floor!! If you called out a B-Boy no matter how fly he was, you understand, if you called him out, he was coming out!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What exactly was considered to be fly during your era?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You had your Cortefiel coat, you had your Overlaps. Sometimes you had some Teardrops.....you had your Playboys or your British Walkers, a Mockneck sweater or maybe a cardigan v-neck sweater with your Kangol on."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How were battles initiated back then? Did they start by one B-Boy jumping into the circle and doing a certain move specifically directed towards another B-Boy?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly!! Like that happened to me one time......actually, that's how I met Fletch. I'm gonna give you that story first! Everybody knew about me B-Boying and then they were like, "Yo, Fletch is up at the Battlegrounds!!!! Blah, blah, blah, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"The Battlegrounds!!!!!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, that's in Harlem also."

SIR NORIN RAD:"The People's Choice Crew used to rock there...."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"The People's Choice, Fever Disco...."

SIR NORIN RAD:"And also The G-Force, right?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly!!! (laughs)!"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn, so B-Boying went down at the Battlegrounds as well?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah!! It became one of my spots but Fletch was there so I said, "Okay, I'mma go up there and see what this guy's about!" You know what I'm saying, I watched him, I was a little impressed by him but I said, "Let me go down and do my stuff!!!" And I wowed them!!!! Everybody was like, "Uuuuuh!" because they had never seen me before but I had heard of Fletch. Fletch used to be with this other guy called Johnny. Johnny was also good and then he had another partner named Frank. So that's how I met Fletch. We started talking, I brought up Puppetmaster's name and after that we started hanging out."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So did you go often to the Battlegrounds in order to take out other B-Boys?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"It was a regular spot whenever they did their thing but me and Fletch kinda held down that B-Boy arena. You know, there would be guys that came there but we would just embarrass them and they would go about their way. So pretty much the Battlegrounds belonged to me and Fletch, you know as far as the B-Boy thing was concerned. Puppetmaster....I would see him every now and then but he would always be up in the Bronx. So the Battlegrounds, the schoolyard betweeen 146th and 147th Street, the Audubon Ballroom and places like that....pretty much....that were our territories. That was me and Fletch, we held that down."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please provide more details of that battle against Fletch!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, I had heard about Fletch before then but I had never met him. I was actually on the corner of 145th Street & Amsterdam Avenue. The Battlegrounds is on Amsterdam Avenue & 152nd Street. Somebody came to me and said, "Yo, Fletch is up there at the Battlgrounds!" I said, "Yeah? Okay, let me go up there!" I went up there and like I said I saw a circle already around him. I'm like, "Yeah, okay! Let me wait for him to do something crazy." I could tell that he was comfortable and that this was his arena because when he finished doing his stuff and he stood up he wasn't expecting nobody to step in that circle and do something and that's when I came in. Everybody's looking like, "Oh, who's this???" And I went down, did my thing. Like I said I impressed them all. All you heard was, "Oh shit!!!!!!" And then, you know, he went down again, I went down again and then they sorta switched the tempo of the music so we had stopped right there. That allowed us to get acquainted with each other and that formed a friendship right then and there!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Fletch was from Featherbed Lane in the Bronx, right?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, you see that's the thing. A lot of people from the Bronx moved to Manhattan.  'Cause Fletch lived up there on  163rd Street.....something like that.....between Amsterdam Avenue & Broadway. See a lot of us moved from the Bronx to Manhattan."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that the Bronx and Harlem were like siblings when it came to Hiphop Culture?"

VOODOOMASTR HERB:"Yeah, exactly, yeah!!! 'Cause you're sharing the same DJs and everything. Like if there's a party over here this week...you know, let's say TJ The DJ (The People's Choice Crew)...they're giving a party this week so we're all over there. Now the next day DJ Mario might be giving a party at JHS 123 so, you know, we're goin over there. Everybody shared...."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you and Fletch became something like a crew after that battle and started going to different parties, is that correct?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly. We would do that. It was me, him and Frank."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your favourite breakbeats back then?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh man, it was always "It's Just Begun" by The Jimmy Castor Bunch! Of course James Brown "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose"....but there were so many more."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about "Apache"?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Of course!! That was without a doubt!  That whole album had at least four banging beats on there....."Apache", "Bongo Rock", "Duelling Bongos", "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida". I still have all these records. "Let's Dance" by Pleasure is another one. "Mambo #5" by Samba Soul.....it was a Salsa record but it had a vicious breakbeat!!!! We would go off to that! Then they had this other one. That was the Zulu's record!!! It was a band from Brazil! I don't remember the name....."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I think you're referring to "Mandamentos Black" by The Gerson King Combo."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, yeah!!! (excited) Gerson King Combo...that was it!!! Yo, when they played that song you had about twenty circles!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"For real???!!?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"(laughs) When that song played you had about twenty damn circles, man!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about "Juju Man" by Passport? Pow Wow told me that him and Cholly Rock once burnt a whole squad of B-Boys to this joint up in The Valley."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh yeah! That too!!! All of these get you on the floor in a heartbeat! Once those songs came on the crowd would just erupt and then the B-Boying would start! You had two Charlie Rocks (one of them is actually spelled Cholly Rock, a legendary Zulu King B-Boy from Uptown, BX), 'cause you had a Charlie Rock from Manhattan also."

SIR NORIN RAD:"B-Boy Charlie Rock from The Rock City Crew."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, yeah!!!! The Rock City Crew was right around the 145th Street area also, all the way down to 80th something. They had a very strong crew!!! And then you had The Mechanics.......Did Mark (Puppetmaster) tell you about The Mechanics?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"No, please elaborate on them!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"That was another time I saw the Puppetmaster do his thing. He danced against one of The Mechanics in the Battlegrounds. That was another sight to see!!!! This guy from the Mechanics he did tricks, like he blew fire out of his mouth and all of this stuff. So I was like, "Where does he get these gimmicks from, man?"But he was good and he was double-jointed, so he used to do a lot of things with his body. It was a good battle but he just couldn't mess with the Puppetmaster!!!  I'm surprised he didn't tell you about The Mechanics!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were they from Harlem, too?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, they were from Harlem, too. From the Battlegrounds area. I think they had about four or five members and my sister she still knows of the guys 'cause he still likes her from way back then but they're just good friends."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Since you mentioned The Rock City Crew what do you recall about the legendary B-Boy Sondance?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"He was an awesome B-Boy!! Let me tell you something.....now this is what made Sondance so good. He was that big but he moved the way he moved!! He burnt a lot of people but you know it's just a fact that he burnt them because they underestimated him. They didn't think anybody that big could move like that!!! Like when you saw John Belushi doing backflips, you wouldn't expect somebody of that size doing backflips. That's what it was with Sondance. You know, you  didn't have any answer to it! They were like, "Oh, this dude is nice!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you pick the name Voodoomaster?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Because when I started breaking.....you know, like I told you about  the guy from The Mechanics who used to blow fire out his mouth.....I used to do a lot of these transformation moves like I was transforming into something else on the floor and I guess that's where the name Voodoomaster came from."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you do certain routines?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, like I said I would transform into something that crawls on the floor, then I'd spin around or jump up in the air. Then I had that thing called The Dead Man's Drop. Now that was hard! You know, cause it took me...like I actually had to practice that move 'cause I was on the floor doing my moves, then I started spinning real fast and then I pushed myself up in the air and I would spin in the air and you know you had to land right or you would hurt yourself because you could land on your side but I put my foot under my leg and that would cushion my fall. I used to call that The Dead Man's Drop because it looked like you spun in the air and you just came down on deadweight. Then I jumped back up and started spinning and do the helicopter. Then I had and I actually got this move down pat to at least three spins while I was able to spin without no hands at all and that was one of my moves. That was one of the moves I used when I first met Fletch and that's why everybody was like, "Oh, shit!!!"  because not too many people could do their spinning with no hands at all. You had to spin fast enough to pick up the momentum to raise your hands and to spin three more times before you stopped."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did B-Boying mean to you back then?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I LOVED B-BOYING!!!! That was my passion! And that's the thing we didn't do it for money or nothing, we did it because we enjoyed it! I'd go everywhere where there was B-Boying going on! Once Mark (Puppetmaster) took me to the Bronx I was always back in the Bronx. Plus where I used to live in the Bronx I'd go around there and they'd have something going on Marmion Avenue, Boston Road.......places like that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the three best B-Boys that you ever witnessed going off?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"It would be Puppetmaster #1, Puppetmaster #2 (Rodney B, cousin of Puppetmaster #1 and also a Shaka Zulu B-Boy)......I have seen a lot of B-Boys but they were mostly guys that I could deal with but I'm talking about B-Boys that I could only hang with for a little while before they would go ahead and do something that would get me out of the circle. So it would be Puppetmaster #1, Puppetmaster #2 and I guess Beaver (The Little Zulu Kings). That's about it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I wanna give a shoutout to all the B-Boys and B-Girls from back in the days and a big shoutout to you for connecting with me!"

   

Interview with MC Barry B (The Mean Machine Crew)

                                            Interview with MC Barry B (The Mean Machine Crew)

                                           

                                                               

MC Barry B (The Fabulous Four MC Connection / The Mena Machine Crew)

                                         conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly did you grow up at?"

BARRY B:"I grew up in East Harlem, Wagner Houses.. on Pleasant Avenue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How old were you when you encountered Hiphop for the first time?"

BARRY B:"I don't know...I had to be about 11 or 12 because we actually listened to cassette tapes and one of the first cassette tapes was Flash but then the next cassette tape we heard was Funky Four and then we heard Sha Rock (female MC of the Funky Four). "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Oh..."

BARRY B:"Right! That's what we used to listen to on the bench."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So someone from your neighbourhoood used to bring live tapes along from  BX groups like Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five?"

BARRY B:"Yeah, well actually it wasn't The Furious Five, I think it was The Furious Four." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. So this must have been around early 1979 or even earlier before Rahiem left The Funky Four to join The Furious Four?"

BARRY B:"Around that time I believe, I cannot give the exact date when Rahiem went to The Furious Four but I know that when I heard those tapes Rahiem was still with The Funky Four. Then later on down the line he was with The Furious Five. That's my man!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did these tapes inspire you to start MCing?"

BARRY B:"I just didn't hear them and did it because actually you know what inspired us? We had a group on our block. It was a guy his name was DJ Kid Flash. Marvin Major....his name was Kid Flash. Not being the guy from the Bronx, he was from East Harlem. His MCs were Eddy Ed and Greg G. So those were the three..."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you see DJ Kid Flash and his crew perform at?"

BARRY B:"They was on 124th Street park. We called it Woodland Park."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When you saw them perform in that park what kind of impression did that leave on you?"

BARRY B:"That left a good impression because after that I wrote (rhymes). So when it was time for Kid Flash and his MCs to take a break they had me on the mic, me and I think it was Master Z. We helped them, we backed them up. So I guess to give the MCs a break. We did shows like in Chuck Center with Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. So we was over there doing shows with them.  Like I was secondary, you know I was starting so it's like I'm secondary. You know I mean when they get tired Kid Flash would be like,"Yo, get ready!" So I'mma go in! So my father had other children and I didn't really know them because I'm on this side. My father never let us know he had other children. I had an older brother named Darryl, so when Darryl went down south I was upset. My pops came through he saw I was angry because my brother Darryl had left to move down south. That's when he told me about my other siblings. He said, "You ain't the only one. I just met your brother. He's downstairs." I tried to figure out what brother.  He said he had blue and white on. That's my brother T-Bird. So me and my cousin Kenny ran down and I seen him. He had on a blue and white sweatsuit. I said,"Yo, kid! There you go! That's T- Bird!" So when I walked up I said, "T-Bird?" And he said,"Darryl?" I shook my head, "No." He said,"Barry!!" I said, "What up? How you doing?" 'cause that's the first time I'm meeting my oldest brother.  At he first time I ain't know 'cause you know it's on my father's side, not my mother's side. So anyway he gave me the adress to come to the house.  They had a party in his house in the Bronx the next day 'cause it was his birthday but I didn't go there because there was a party in Woodland Park. We partied in there, breakdancing and all that!!! You know, we had a good time in there. Even Ski Jump (The Floor Masters) came through. Everybody came through. That was our East Side little corner besides other places. So I didn't come that day, so the next day I seen my brother I said, "Yo, I ain't come. I come today." I was young, so I hit my mom up, "Yo, ABCDEFG." I better let her know. She knew who I met. I said, "They told me they would like me to come over. What's up?" She said,"That's your brother. Yeah, go on over the bridge. Just make sure you know the address." Now I get over the bridge, they told me to look for the white water tower. I looked for the white water tower, I didn't really image that. We never really went over the bridge, we were young. Everything was about the East Side. You never crossed the Willis Avenue Bridge unless my mom took us shopping. So when I came over the bridge I'm stuck but God is so good and powerful that I can't understand how powerful he is and I love it. I'm right there on 141st Street at the yellow church, it's right on the corner...Willis Avenue. So I ain't seen no white water tower and then it so happened I seen the girl my brother was with over my side. I said, "You're Linda?" She said,"Yeah, you're Tony's brother." I said, "Can I ask you a question?" She said, "Yeah!" I said, "Where is the house?" So then she brought me up to the house and we all met each other and then I met my other brother Tiny (RIP). I met my sister Hazel...that's MC Lil Bit..and I met my sister Trudy. Trudy was on the turntables. So Tiny came in the house and then he found out that I'm his brother. He asked, "Yo, you're hanging out?" I said, "Yeah!" So he just snatched me, we went to my aunt's house, we hung out. So me and him were walking over the Willis Avenue Bridge 'cause I wanted to get some clothes. I'mma stay for the weekend. So he asked me, "What do you do?" I said, "I rhyme." He said, "You rhyme?" I said, "Yeah, I rhyme." Remember I'm secondary, remember I'm secondary over here. So he said,"Go ahead! Rhyme!" I said, "I need a beat." He said, "Alright. I'mma play Bongo Rock for you."'Cause my brother Tiny was a DJ (DJ Tiny Tine of The Mean Machine Crew) and he learnt how to MC later. So he said, "I'mma play you Bongo Rock!!!!" He was beatboxing through his mouth but just saying it not like a Doug E Fresh beatbox but he kept that beat. So me and him stepped on the Willis Avenue Bridge and I rhymed that whole Willis Avenue Bridge non-stop! Non-Stop!! Rhyme for rhyme for rhyme for rhyme...ain't no talking about yes yes y'all....rhyme for rhyme for rhyme.....He said,"Wow! You my MC now!!!"  

                                                                 

DJ Tiny Tine (The Mean Machine Crew)

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long did you serve as back-up MC for DJ Kid Flash? How many parties did you do with him?"

BARRY B:"Could have been about three, maybe four parties. If they needed us, it's when they get tired, you know what I mean? They rhyme the whole party but if they get tired, "Yo, you're ready?" So we're coming in, so they get a second breather...they can get their breath and come back in.  So it may have been about a year, could have been about a year. Maybe about four parties if that. I'm not too sure about that. I was just happy to actually get on. You get on and say something little, you're not saying what they're saying because you're not ready yet. I'm secondary, I'm not ready yet. They're polished, they know their stuff. We're just coming in and make sure we got that beat and we're holding it. No routines, just a rhyme, you know what I'm saying???" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you have to audition in front of Kid Flash to become one of his back-up MCs? How did that come about?"

BARRY B:"Because everybody rhymed outside! Everybody rhymed! Like I told you we were sitting on the bench and we were listening to other MCs."Oh, we gonna write something! We gonna try!" Then we started with a little bit or whatever. I don't even remember what my first rhyme was 'cause that's many, many years ago. The crazy thing is... now we got over the bridge back now and I rhymed back across the whole bridge. When I realized that's a long bridge to just rhyme...once I learnt that pattern...and I'mma tell you what happened next.....that became my practice, you know what I'm saying? So when you get on the stage there is no way in the world you're winded because you rhyme that whole bridge...non-stop!!! So when we got to the house, he (DJ Tiny Tine) told them about me. Remember they already met me. Tiny came with me to get my clothes, now I'm coming to spend a whole weekend with them.  I'm their baby brother. They want to get to know me. So everybody is in the house.... Rockin Rob, Crazy Eddie, my partner MC Little Rich...everybody is in the house.....The Mean Machine Crew!!! They played music 'cause they did a three-day-party. I ain't never seen that in my life. Now when I say a three-day-party in the morning you go home. What I loved about my stepmom and I loved her the best... she kept us out the streets. We can go, we do our business but if we wanted to party she let us up in the house. Just you ain't smoking in here, none of that and she let us party so that kept you out the streets. We had our own crew, you know what I'm saying? We had a big crew...Mean Machine Crew, South Bronx!!! Not the ones from Sylvia Robinson with Sugar Hill. We are talking about the original Mean Machine Crew from the Black Door!! DJ Rockin Rob, DJ Tiny Tine....my brother...rest in peace......DJ Tin Man, The Fabulous Four MC Connection: MC Crazy Eddie, MC Little Rich,  my sister MC Lil Bit, myself the Playboy Kid, the MC Wiz MC Barry B!!!! You know what I'm saying, that's how we became that!! So they asked me to come in the room. They heard me rhyme and all of a sudden everybody disappeared one by one from the room. I'm in the living room. So they came out and said,"Yo, come here!" I said, "What's up?" They said, "Hey, I wanna ask you a question...You are family from the same blood. I know you secondary with Kid Flash but would you like to be one with us?" I said, "My family? Yeah, I'm with y'all. You're my family, we're blood! We are literally blood! Our father's blood's going through everybody's veins. Yeah, I'm down." And that's how I became part of The Fabulous Four MC Connection, of the Mean Machine Crew."

SIR NORIN RAD:"The Willis Avenue Bridge connects East Harlem with the Bronx, right?"

BARRY B:"It's two bridges if you really want. It's two bridges...3rd Avenue Bridge that brings you back from the Bronx and it's the Willis Avenue Bridge that brings you across to the Bronx.  Like if you're driving you go over the Willis Avenue Bridge, that's the long bridge. I loved to walk that bridge, I still walk that bridge and if you're in a car you can't go back over that bridge, you have to go through the 3rd Avenue Bridge. One bridge brings you in, one bridge brings you out. There is other bridges that bring you out but you said East Harlem."

Willis Avenue Bridge

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please describe how you as The Mean Machine Crew rehearsed for your live shows?"

BARRY B:"Okay, my stepmother.....I talked about her before....I love her she kept us out the streets. So instead of us being somewhere in the street doing something, we practiced in the house. She let us practice everything in the house. We would do some words in the house, you know, because we learned to put routines together. You gotta put routines together 'cause the hot boys got routines!!!  You have to put routines together! Ain't about you getting on no stage just rhyming and then the next MC....NO!!!!!!  You have to put a routine together! You had the Force MCs, they had all the routines. You had the Fantastic Five, you had the Furious Five...so we are Black Door now!! We gotta say something on stage to make somebody look at us!!! My DJ Rockin' Rob had his thing going and he was very excellent at his thing but we all perfected at the same time. The perfection was so crazy I loved it, you know what I'm saying!!!! We practiced so hard!!! Now we got the words together in the house 'cause we all wrote together. A piece, a piece, a piece..we all got a piece!! That's how the routine went right or switch it back up. That taught me a lot about putting things together. Now I'm learning how to put routines together, so once I learned how to put a routine together I said, "Now I gotta perfect this craft!" So by perfecting this craft I'm listening. They had a lot of things going on out there!! You can hear it, you hear the Fantastic 5....I love the Fantastic Five on the mic.....(sings a Fantastic Five routine) Fantastic Romantic Five! Each one is qualified.......and they tore it up live!!! I been on stage with them.....Lord!!!! The Furious Five....they tore it up!!! I haven't been on stage with the Force MCs but they were nice!!! Stevie D is my man!! He a cool dude! They had F Troop!!! Hold up, hold up! Ain't nobody tear up F Troop!!! (sings a routine of the Force MCs)......We came, we came. Yo, they had F Troop, B???? Come on, man!!! They came out with a lot of stuff. So we loved that and I said, "I gotta write something different!" So I started going into different thoughts. At the same time I said, "I gotta find something ain't nobody got!" So I'm into movies, Im good. So I went into "The Education of Sonny Carson".

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn!"

                                            

December 24th, 1980: DJ Rockin Rob & The Mean Machine perform at the T-Connection along with Grandwizard Theodore & The Fantastic Five

BARRY B:"Right!  I gotta get something! I gotta get something!! And our crew is the Mean Machine....so you know my family and them they was from Brooklyn,so there was gangs down there....Tomahawks and all that...and in that movie they had The Tomahawks and they sing, "We are the Tomahawks!!! The mighty, mighty Tomahawks!!" I thought about the Mean Machine!!!! (sings) We are the Mean Machine, the mighty, mighty Mean Machine!!!" Yeah!! (continues) Stay back now, sucker, sucker!!! The L-I-L..yes the B-I-T!!! Stay back now!!! Yeah, my sister..all of us!! So we were just putting routines together and so we got a lot of routines going on. Then we even started getting together...me and my partner Crazy Eddie and Lil Rich and we put "Seven Minutes Of Funk" together.  Crazy Eddie would initiate it...I gotta little tune that I do miss and it goes something, something like this: One for the crowd, two for me! I wanna hear the voice of the Barry B! He is the man with the masterplan. He can rock the mic all over his hand! Lil Rich, Lil Bit, the female MC that is the sure shit!! And there's one more, that is me! The MC man called Crazy Eddie! Then we came right behind! We aaaaarrrreee the Four MCs and we rock you on down to your knees! Yeah!!! So it's of the rhythm!!  So that made it more....now we ain't puppies no more!! You know when you're growing up, you're like first the puppy, then the middle sized dog, then the big dog. So we're getting stages through and now we're in a new stage. We're putting songs together, all of us! Mean Machine Crew! And then now we're adding up, we get on stage. My brother Tiny (RIP) and them, they used to have dance routines. So everybody (all the DJ /MC crews back then) had a dance routine that they posed. You know they're just posing, we didn't have that, we danced!!! We had a crazy dance routine and it was hard. It was a full-blown shuffle, we busted ass when we did it. We killed them and I remember one time we did it in the P.A.L.......183rd. I remember my sister (MC Lil Bit) she set it up, "Clap your hands everybody and everybody clap your hands! Clap your hands everybody and everybody clap your hands! We got our one DJ and our three MCs who gonna rock the step with no delay! And if you really wanna see them get on down just clap your hands to the funky sound!!! Say one for the money, two for the bass! Come on  Rockin' Rob let's rock this place!" Now when she said,"Place!" the lights went off, the place went black.....blink of an eye black and then the strobe light came on..and at the same time she said that our right foot went in place and we went right to the routine and we tore their asses up on that stage!!!! They ain't seen nothing like that 'cause they're looking at posing! We ain't posing, we move, we do some funky stuff! We won the trophy that night!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I think you told me once that your crew was affiliated with a squad called The Little Mix Masters which basically consisted of your students. How did that affiliation come about?"

BARRY B:"Ok, when I first came the umbrella was Mean Machine. We had Mix Masters and we had Disco Masters.  Disco Masters consists of my big brother Moe. DJ Moe Start The Show and then my older brother Tony...T-Bird...... and we had Stretch. That's the Disco side. On the Hiphop side we had Rockin Rob, Tiny Tine and Tin Man. That were our DJs and The Fabulous Four MC Connection."

SIR NORIN RAD:"The Little Mix Masters were Hiphop though, right?"

BARRY B:"Yeah. One of their DJs was DJ Master Maze. He was a very good DJ."

 

August 10th, 1979: The Mean Machine Crew and The Mix Masters perform at Mitchell's Gym

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess you were the only member of The Mean Machine Crew that came from East Harlem, is that correct? All the others came from the Bronx."

BARRY B:"Bronx, yeah. Everybody I met at my brother's house was from the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you wear special outfits when you were performing on stage?"

BARRY B:"When we started performing we had sweatsuits with our name on it at first."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would they have specific colors?"

BARRY B:"Red and black. Our Mean Machine crew is red and black but at that time it wasn't 'cause they had different colors sweatsuits, you know what I'm saying? But when we really settled Mean Machine is red and black. Just like that movie "The Longest Yard" with Burt Reynolds..yeah, Mean Machine.....red and black and they said Mean Machine on that, too, when they're playing football, "Mean Machine, Mean Machine!!!" Right!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"In which parks did the Mean Machine crew perform on the regular?"

BARRY B:"We had Clark Park.  That's ours!!!"

Clark Park (Mott Haven, BX) - Home of the Mean Machine Crew

 

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where is Clark Park located?"

BARRY B:"Clark Park is on 3rd Avenue between 144th & 145th Street."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How many people would come there when your DJs set up their equipment and started playing music and you got busy on the mic?"

BARRY B:"A lot of people! A lot of people! A looooot of people!!! Let me tell you when I first rhymed out there I was nervous. I don't lie, I'm a man but I was nervous. So I had a practice that I would do as a practice that kept me hot besides the bridge, you know what I'm saying? I would be in the mirror in the bathroom and I' go off!! I'd go off in that mirror! I practiced! See MCs nowadays don't know...you have to practice!!! You have to be a one-verse-person meaning one take. That's the point of rehearsing your rhymes because when you get on stage you can't redo that!!! So you got to know your stuff, your part from beginning to end and then as knowing it so much you can put your feelings into it as you're saying your rhymes. You gonna sound like you're ready 'cause you practiced!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I think that's something that many people today fail to understand about the golden era of original DJs and MCs. Crews had to build their reputation in the streets by constantly delivering fresh and impeccable live performances and so they couldn't just stop in the middle of their performance and say, "We're sorry! That obviously didn't work out well so we have to do it again." They had to come correct..."

BARRY B:" Nah, you crazy??? No, no,no, no!!! If you wanted to be alright the next day and nobody sayin' nothin' bad you better know your work!! They gonna know you messed up, you feel me??? They gonna know you messed up!!! They'd be like, "Oh, he don't even know his rhyme!!!" or "They messed up on stage!" That's what you gonna get! That's what you really gonna get! We never got booed but people did get booed."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe what went down when your crew performed with Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five at Mott Haven Center!" 

BARRY B:"That was my sister's birthday party, that was MC Lil Bit's birthday party. In that night...on the flyer was Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five. So we up in there 'cause that's Mott Haven, we're Mott Haven. Ain't nothing, a regular day but we're having a party that night. Man, let me you something! I ain't gonna lie..I love me some Furious Five!!!!! I told you that. I love The Fantastic Five, I love The Force MCs, I love a lot of groups....I love the Cold Crush...don't get it twisted but the Furious Five came with the best shit that I seen when they came in with some other shit!!! (laughs) Listen to me! It was a party, we wasn't thinking about nothing. You know it's music.....Man, let me tell you something, when Flash and the Furious Five came in there they had every color sheepskins in the world!!! Them colors never was out! When they walked in with Flash, them sheepskins they had.....beige and brown were the regular sheepskins colors.... they came in there with grey, blue, green. Colors that you ain't never seen and with the hat to match!!! I said, "Oh my god! This shit is fly!" and they coming in as The Furious Five!!! I'll never forget this night.....Mott Haven Center. And Rockin Rob and Flash got into a DJ thing, it was crazy! The MCs were MCing,  it wasn't a battle for us. We had already been on, then the Furious Five came on and did their thing. Then Flash got on (on his own without the MCs) and he asked Rockin Rob to get on, so he could cut one, then Rob would cut one on the turntables. That went crazy that night!!! That went crazy, you know what I'm saying?? They're playing what they're playing... Flash is tearing up his records and Rockin Rob is tearing up his records! They're all tearing them records up!!  The best showed the best! See like back in the days when I was younger like when I told you with Kid Flash. His record was "I Like To Make It Right" ("Well, Have A Nice Day" by King Erisson) He cut it up like "I like to make it.....I like to make it...I like to...I like to..." Yeah, that was then, that was like slow brewing. Nah, it got different over here. They were tearing it up! Very impressive! I love that night."

March 8th, 1980: DJ Rockin Rob' & The Mean Machine are performing at the Ecstasy Garage along with Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five and The Cold Crush Brothers

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"There is this very interesting flyer which advertises a battle between the legendary MC Sha Rock and your sister MC Lil Bit. What do you remember about that event?"

BARRY B:"I don't really like to talk about it. Sha Rock is kool, I like me some Sha Rock. Remember she was my idol before I knew that Hazel (MC Lil Bit) was my sister. Remember I told you we used to sit on the bench and listen to Sha Rock, "You rock the hip, then you rock the hop and you rock Sha Sha Sha Rock!!!!" Yo, that was everything!!! First of all you ain't heard a girl and then the girl tearing it up worse than some dudes?? What I do remember.....I asked my sister about it. She said she was challenged and she met that challenge. She said, "I met that challenge by showing up!" There was a coin toss of who was going first. Sha Rock won the coin toss, she told Lil Bit to get on first which she did. MC Lil Bit was prepared, she started with a rhyme saying, "Sha Rock that Lady MC, she can rock but no match for me!! I'm the L-I-L , the B-I-T, the number one lady with quality!" The crowd went crazy! MC Lil Bit finished her time, next up was Sha Rock.They called her to the stage, they called her several times but she never came. MC Lil Bit won and was crowned Number One Lady MC. After several parties she decided to hang up the mic and started a career in finance."

                                             

MC Lil Bit (The Fabulous Four MC Connection / The Mean Machine Crew)

                                                                

December 19th, 1980: MC Lil Bit (The Mean Machine) vs. Sha Rock (The Funky Four Plus One) at The Ecstasy Garage, BX 

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"It seems MC battles were totally different back then from what they are today with all this gun talk and verbally abusing each others mothers that is going on now. Plus there are no beats involved anymore."

BARRY B:"It's not the battle style we had. It's a huge difference. Now they're talking but they rhyme. I don't know it's a difference, you know? I listen to them but I only listen to these new battles because of my nephew Fettucine 20 'cause he's on it 'cause when I listen to other people I be like...... you know, it's different than me!!! I give everybody a chance. I give everybody what it is but it's totally different than me. The more you listen to it you might get a little closer to it...a little, you know what I'm saying? Their punchlines sometimes be crazy what they say. Then they repeat it, then come back and do it. I mean yeah, they call that battle rhyme, yeah.......I'm not really into it. They're different."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the Fambulous Four MC Connection have a leader?"

BARRY B:"We was a team. Nobody was above no man and nobody was above the group. We did everything together. Nobody was no higher, nobody was no better. So it was a crew effort and right now to this day I still mess with my partners 'cause we still got joints."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the role of each MC within your crew!"

BARRY B:"We was all in the same barrel. First of all, Crazy Eddie used to open it. I didn't feel comfortable open it, so I rather let Eddie open it. That's how it went. He used to say something like, "Ladies and gentlemen, how y'all doing? We're the original Mean Machine Crew!" Then Little Rich would get on, then I would be next. My sister is not gonna be on that like that. Just when her time comes...banger!!! She gonna knock it out the park! Home Run! Do another hit....bang!!!! And she out! That's it, unless we needed her for something. It was always me , Eddie and Rich. That's why my sister faded after a while. She was involved in everything but certain things.....routines?? She was in every routine! Every routine my sister was part of that. Actually, like with me...my sister is my energy. You know how you got a big sister and you try something and you're good at it but she's on fire with it, so you better get on your shit."        

SIR NORIN RAD:"So she was pushing you to become a better MC?"

BARRY B:"Oh, we were pushing each other! We pushed us all but by me being the baby...I'm the little one...I had to show them that I'm playing no games, I ain't missing no beat.  My stepmother kept us in the house, we practiced, we wrote our rhymes, we said it together then we went across to Rob's house. We went there, that's when we really started practicing with his DJing and the music and we know we're getting ready to do a show. Yeah, we're practicing and now we come back to the other house 'cause now we're doing our routines, our dance steps. That's how it went, it's a family effort!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was the lyrically strongest MC among you?"

BARRY B:"All of us. Listen to what I'm saying...we sat together! "Yo, what you think? I got this concept!" "Alright!" "Follow behind me! Yo, what you got?" Let me throw this rhyme in!" "Nah, this sounds better." So you'd rewrite it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you keep your rhymes and your concepts for routines in specific books?"

BARRY B:"We kept rhyme books, we didn't worry about the routines, 'cause all you got to do was remember the hook. Now if you're gonna do a routine routine...like what we would do..we would do a routine and switch in and out...for that you had to have a book but not really because when we practiced in the house we practiced so frequently you knew your part! You knew your part!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How often would you get together and practice your performances per week?"

BARRY B:"Practice your lyrics? Every day!!!! You would practice your lyrics every day! Listen, I told you I didn't care if somebody thought you was crazy.  Go and walk by yourself, have your earphones on and rhyme! You're practicing! I ain't care what they think about me!! I'm walking...say I get on the Drive......the FDR Drive...just to walk. Everything ain't Willis Avenue Bridge 'cause this is right here by my house. I got on my earphones, I'm going through my routines!!!  I like to be by myself when I'm going through it. I want no interruption, let me just get this. I'm getting my mind ready 'cause we're getting ready to do this. No mistakes! We don't do no mistakes! Practice do make perfect but ain't nobody perfect but you ain't mess up if you really practice!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did your rehearsals sometimes last for several hours? Like from afternoon to nighttime?"

BARRY B:"Yep, after we got out of school......well, it was me after school 'cause remember I was 15, so by that time I'm 16 whatever. At 15 I got out of there and went to Julia Richman HS. They'd be waiting for me. "Where's Barry?" "He's coming out of school." "Aight." "He's on his way." From up there we're going to my stepmother's house. We eat.  Everybody start coming in, then we start getting ready to work. Play the cassette from the house and go through our routines. When it's time to go crazy, " Let's go across (to Rockin Rob's house)!"

DJ Rockin Rob (The Mean Machine Crew) cuttin' it up....

  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was the main  DJ that would cut up beats for the Fabulous Four MC Connection when you were performing?"

BARRY B:"Rob! But don't get it twisted at a certain time Rob needed a break, too, so then Tiny would get on. But we weren't going crazy, when we go with Rob we're going crazy!! That's it!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your top five beats to rhyme over?"

BARRY B:"I tear up "Apache"! I tear "Funky Drummer" up! Give me "Got To Be Real" and you can give me "Seven Minutes Of Funk". It really wasn't mine 'cause I'm the hyper one. You know like when you hit them beats I'm the hyper one. Like my sister is a hyper one. My sister used to tear up "Do The Funky Penguin" and she would do "Funky Drummer". She gonna rock that crowd!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"By looking at all these flyers I noticed that The Mean Machine Crew would not only perform at all these big venues in the Bronx but also in Harlem. How did that come about?"

BARRY B:"Let me tell you something......there was a guy called DJ Mr. Freeze, he knew who we was but before that it was Kool DJ AJ. I love him...may he rest in peace! I used to go to Julia Richman High School. Remember it was 1979 when I graduated, so when I graduated I ended up going to high school. So when I went to Julia Richman HS, AJ was always outside giving out flyers. So I approached him one day and said,"Yo, What's up, B???? Why we ain't never on them flyers?? What's up?" He said,"Barry, I guarantee you one thing if y'all guarantee to come I put you on a flyer." I said, "Alright, give me a minute! Let me go holler at the crew." So usually we would have our meetings......I told you three times a week...and I asked, "Yo, DJ AJ is putting these joints on. He wanna know if we wanna get down. Let me know now so he can put us down for the next joint."  He was putting us on all them shits after that. So when we did those Mr. Freeze realized who we were.....BOOM! He got us in C&C Disco. C&C is on 125th Street & Lennox Avenue. Now from C&C Disco they did more parties which became B&B. B&B was a karate school, it was on 122nd Street & 3rd Avenue. Everybody performed up in there!!! Master Don & The Death Committee..everybody!"  

 

September 26th, 1980: The Mean Machine Crew performs at C&C Disco in Harlem

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would youl like to give shout outs at the end of this interview?"

BARRY B:"To my Mean Machine Crew family....the incredible DJ Rockin Rob, my brother Tiny Tine (RIP), Tin Man...... The Fabulous Four MC Connection and my Wagner family!!!!"

The Mean Machine Crew