Interview with MC Hi-Cee (Touch Of Class / Inner City Disco)

                      Interview with MC Hi-Cee (Touch Of Class / Inner City Disco)

 

MC Hi-Cee (Touch Of Class / Inner City Disco)

                                      conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where were you born and raised at?"

HI-CEE:"I was born and raised in the Bronx, New York City.....in Jacobi Hospital which is in the northeast section of the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay and where exactly did you live in the Bronx when you encountered Hiphop for the very first time? Was it Edenwald ?"

HI-CEE:"Yes, it sure was. That's where I was born and raised in Edenwald Housing Projects. Yup, that's exactly where it started."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of music were you exposed to as a young girl growing up?"

HI-CEE:"I come from a very diverse background. My mother is Caribean..Trinidadian and my dad was Southern. Music was a very big part of our family. I was raised on traditional Soul music at the time, right in the midst of the Civil Rights Movement. R&B of course...and then my oldest brother had a very huge influence on me with Jazz. So I was introduced to a lot of classical Jazz artists at a very young age. So melting Hiphop and some of the Jazz was pretty familiar to me. So yeah it was a myriad of different  music of different sounds. So my evolution with music has been a long standing part of my life."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please name those artists that stood out to you before you became a part of Hiphop?"

HI-CEE:"Sure. James Brown.....of course.....all the Motown artists. The Temptations, Diana Ross & The Supremes. Aretha Franklin was another very huge sound in my household. Sam Cooke....and then in the 1970ies....of course the Jackson Five, The Stylistics, Blue Magic, The Manhattans...that whole genre of music...and then you know it just transitioned into Disco in the mid to late seventies....like Donna Summers and all of these new artists."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how you got into Hiphop! Where did your first encounter with it take place? Was it at a park jam?"

HI-CEE:"Uhm.... sorta kind of but it actually stems back to the B-Boys..to that whole B-Boy culture and Graffiti. Breaking was my initial exposure to Hiphop."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please elaborate on that! Were you a B-Girl back then?"

HI-CEE:"I would say I was. I was a self-proclaimed B-Girl. That whole culture was just about being young and relaxed. You know, having jeans and sweatshirts and sneakers....you know just hanging out. We would wear the Super Pro-Keds and the wide bottom Lee Jeans. So yeah it was something for the young people to do, just to hang out and express their creativity through music and dance."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Your name appears on Hiphop flyers as early as 1979. So you were undoubtedly among the first female MCees. What made you pick up the microphone and start rhyming?"

HI-CEE:"I had a friend who was at the time a DJ. He was spinning on the 1s and 2s and we would just hang out. I just picked up the mic and I had a knack. I had always been a little bit of a poet. So you know I would write rhymes and I just got encouraged one day to pick up the mic when he was jamming in house. And that was the beginning of it. So wherever he would go he would bring me wih him and I would just get on the mic and rhyme."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was his name?"

HI-CEE:"His name was Carl. I forgot what his DJ name was. He wasn't from Edenwald but he was from right outside of the neighbourhood."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you meet him?"

HI-CEE:"Actually I knew him before he started DJing. We were all like teenage friends and I was dating his best friend at the time. We actually had a crush on each other but I wind up dating his best friend. Me and his friend got close but we maintained our relationship as friends. So when he started DJing and started doing his thing it happened organically and I just started rocking the mic. He was actually my connection to Touch Of Class."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which year was that?"

HI-CEE:"1977/78."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long did you perform with him?"

HI-CEE:"It wasn't long. Maybe a few months. I do remember that it was warm when I started rocking with him because we were doing our thing outside. So I would say it was probably about four months. He was connected to DJ Mellow Beat of Touch Of Class. He was really good friends with him. He knew him, we went to his set and the rest is kind of history."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what was it like for you to stand in front of a crowd and to kick your rhymes for the first time?" 

HI-CEE:"I kinda sort of..I remember being in a house and it was all guys. Hiphop was dominated by males back then. DJ Breakout lived on the same block. It was a little stressful but because I was with my really good friend and he felt that I had the confidence to do it I kinda didn't wanna let him down.So I had to bolster up whatever courage I could find at the time to pick up the mic because of course they wanted to hear me and they were all looking at me like, "Is she the next Sha Rock?" (laughs) I was right behind her. So yeah it was a little intense when I think about it."

SIR NORIN RAD:" Please describe how you joined the Touch Of Class Crew which was one of the most prestigious DJ/MC crews in the northeast Bronx. How did your first DJ react to your decision to leave him for Touch Of Class?"

HI-CEE:"There wasn't no bad feelings. He just wanted to see me get to the next level. Which was good..."

SIR NORIN RAD:" So did you have to go through something like a tryout in order to join Touch Of Class? Did you have to rock the mic in front of the crew while their DJs were cutting up beats?"

HI-CEE:"Oh yeah! Exactly! I had to kinda audition. They had some beats going on. I kicked some of my rhymes they liked what they heard and let me join their group."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you already go by the name of Hi-C at that time?"

HI-CEE:"Yes, sir!!! (laughs) It was Hi-C from the beginning." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you come up with that name? Did your choice have anything to do with that drink Hi-C?"

HI-CEE:"So it goes a little something like this: I didn't get my name from the Hi-C drink. That's what a lot of people like to think. It's just that if  you put "Hi" to the initial letter of my first name you would get Hi-C."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did the other MCees of Touch Of Class treat you when you joined their crew?"

HI-CEE:"They were very, very happy to have me on board because those gentlemen were like different. Touch Of Class was a different type of crew. It was exactly what that title was. During that time you had a lot of....I don't wanna say non-classy but unclassy MCees. We were classy!  You know, we had a lot of pride in our appearance and in our delivery of lyrics, in our technique of rapping. We were all very, very lyrical. They all were very lyrical and they all could move a crowd. So for me to be able to pretty much impress them it was an honour for me to be part of that team. Now they were all very welcoming. We really, really performed well together. There was a little tension between me and Mexi Ray....who is Apollo One's brother. He was a little bit spoiled and I was, too. He liked the limelight......so to be a female with them made it a little bit competetive...for the most part between he and I...but the formula still worked well."

August 4th 1979: Touch Of Class is rocking at the 28 Lincoln Ave Disco

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So please explain how much work went into coming up with exceptional rhymes and routines, into making the whole crew appear as a well functioning unit."

HI-CEE:"Well, the process pretty much was.....each invididual MC of course had their own rap lyrics that they would develop and you know we would come together and rehearse just to get a flow and to be comfortable with each other but then with specific beats we would have specific routines. There was one time where Touch Of Class....we were in a competition....it was an outdoor competition and our routine just totally took over. Nobody after that competed against us. We would come up with routines. Usually it started with a specific song, a specific beat. The DJ may have something that he wanted us to work on an so we would just listen to it and then we would just come up with you know different rhymes, the rotation of the rhymes. If there were gonna be any movement we would build that in. We would rehearse multiple times during the week whenever it was feasible for everybody to get together. I know weekly we....Touch Of Class..would have a standing day that we would rehearse. When we knew there was gonna be a competition we would be rehearsing multiple times during the week."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you would think a lot about new rhymes and concepts for new routines during your days back then."

HI-CEE:"Yes, I did but it never felt like work. So I at the time was in transition. I was going to school downtown in Manhattan. That took up much of my time along with my boyfriend. So I basically dropped out of high school. Unfortunately I did but that gave me a little bit more time to work on my craft. I managed to go to work and in my private time I would write rhymes. A lot of our rehearsals would be done later on in the evening once everybody was through with their working. You know, some of the team they were old enough to work and we would just plan to get together in the evening and work and do what we neeeded to do. We pretty much knew that while we were not actually together and rehearsing we still needed to work on our craft. That kinda build in."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe your approach to writing rhymes back then. Would you write your rhymes while your fellow MCees were around or did you prefer to be alone when it came to that? Would you write your rhymes to a certain beat that was playing on a boom box in your room at home or did you write rhymes to a beat in your head?"

HI-CEE:"I'm just a creative person. So a lot of my rhymes were tied back to old school songs or lyrics. Things that people would sing at the time. So I would just play with that. For the most part it was music that woul inspire me to write a rhyme. So I remembered old school lyrics and I may twist it and you know come up with something. We styled it you know to Hiphop and we would just write."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you keep a rhyme book with you?"

HI-CEE:"Of course! Every MC has to have a rhyme book!! I would keep pads or a notebook. Probably a spiral at the time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"You have stated that the whole Touch Of Class crew also stood out because of the way its members dressed. Please elaborate on that!"

HI-CEE:"We were all definetely fly! As I said I was very creative so I would design a lot of my outfits. So I would make sure for me that I was always fly cause I knew that the brothers would always gonna come nicely dressed. We presented ourselves with a high level of class to the young Hiphop scene at the time. Nobody was doing it like we were."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was considered as female fly gear in Hiphop during the late 1970ies and early 1980ies?"

HI-CEE:"You had the bamboo earrings with the big gold chains. A lot of the designer jeans definetely was the thing. High heeled shoes, some would have on platforms. You had the sheepskin coats. At that time there was a heavy influence of the cowboy style.  So we would wear cowboy hats, cowboy boots with heels. Again the designer jeans was the thing back then. That's when that whole genre began with Gloria Vanderbilt, the Sassons, the Jordaches, the Calvin Kleins. The Le Tigre shirts at that time were very stylish. You would pop your collar.....yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have seen a lot of 1970ies pictures of Black and Puerto Rican ladies from the Bronx which show them wearing a scarve around their head as well as colorful blouses with huge collars. Was that style still around when you got into Hiphop?"

HI-CEE:"Yeah, so that was right towards the end of the Disco era. So they would have these really puffed sleeves. We would call them puff sleeves and they would have the really long collars. So that's indicative of getting towards the end of the Disco era and going into Hiphop. Some girls you would see them with scarves. Either they would tie them around their neck because it was just part of the dance gear at the time or they would tie them around their neck. It was some sort of a gypsy kind of style. Yeah, that was that mid seventies look."

SIR NORIN RAD:“Did you have a pair of Marshmallow shoes back then?"

HI-CEE:"I had a pair of maroon Marshmallow shoes with the white bottoms. I sure did. I also had a leather coat. Delancey Street is where you would go to get your leathers. If you were fashionable you had to have a leather jacket or a leather coat. That was another big part of your attire, of you being fly." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What type of hats did the women in Hiphop wear back then?"

HI-CEE:"You would see some of them with Kangols...you know, the one that LL Cool J rocked... you would see some of them rocking those but for the most part...the females...they would have their hair out. They wouldn't have their head covered unless, you know, you had a cowboy hat during that time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"At which venues did you rock at when you were part of the Nice & Nasty MCees of the Touch of Class Crew?"

HI-CEE:"The T-Connection was one....Edenwald Center. We did the Ecstasy Garage one time. That was towards the time when I was gonna separate with them. We did a lot of outdoor jams in the parks. There was one spot on Webster Avenue that was really popular for us....the P.A.L. We rocked down in the Valley, too, at some point. Edenwald Park.......places like that."

August 24th, 1979: Touch Of Class Disco participates in a DJ convention at the legendary Webster P.A.L. in the Bronx.

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What's the difference between rocking at a community center like the Edenwald Center and rocking at a club like the T-Connection?"

HI-CEE:"Well, the first difference was at a club you had the potential to get paid. So when you rocked at a club that was basically like the birth place of the battle scene. You know, the battling of the different crews. The jams at the community centers were more of a recreational thing. You gotta chance to go and do your thing. You know, showcase your talent. But when you moved into the club, when you're performing in a club....now you have the element of making money. Now you're being paid. And that, you know, really was the difference. Getting into the T-Connection... which at the time was the number one club in the Bronx....that meant you had arrived!!! They had a big stage. The venue was just set for performances. You really felt like an artist."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So that means in places like the Edenwald Center you were on the floor standing face to face with the crowd?"

HI-CEE:"Yeah, exactly you were on the floor. You know, the same floor as the party and everybody was up close. You didn't have the barrier of a stage...it was all together with the party. And that was the difference! The jams at the centers were partys. Even though you partied at the T-Connection but you also had the payment. You know, it was just the way it was marketed."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please elaborate on the parties in the community centers during the late 1970ies. What kind of dances were done there? What was the atmosphere like?"

HI-CEE:"The Freak!!! That was the main dance!!! (laughs) At the community centers it would  actually be such a big party scene....it would be so heavy that the floors would be muddy because of the sweat and the dirt of the shoes. And so when you asked me about the gear back then I recalled the guys when they were coming out of a community center party......the dirt was up to their calves on their Lee Jeans because of all the moisture! It was hot in there. These places were called sweat boxes. But it was the most phenomenal time because you had a large group of people that was coming of age and there was just a new freedom and liberty that you were experiencing and you know we didn't know that we were giving birth to a whole new cultural artform. We were just having a really, really good time...."

October 12th, 1979: Touch Of Class Disco is rocking at the Edenwald Center in the Bronx

      

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that it was harder for you as a young woman to make it as an  MC back then?"

HI-CEE:"It's interesting because I rocked with two different crews it's two different perspectives for me. So yeah, with the Touch Of Class.. because it was a male dominated group it was a little bit more difficult because they were very dominating, they made all the decisions about the direction of the crew. I was not consulted on anything and they actually dismissed me from the crew for really no reason. In my opinion I became a lot more popular than the other MCees because I was a female and I had a small following. They would come to all of our jams and they would help me hype it up. So whenever I got on the mic it would just be hyped! The others weren't getting exactly that level of response. So it kinda created a little bit of friction there. There was some resentment. So they decided that I wasn't gonna be a part of the team. From the outside looking in I just disappeared. Kenny Ken....(DJ of the Cheeba Crew) he introduced me to Inner City Disco. With them it wasn't hard because I was with my contemporaries. We were all females, we fed off each other. We knew that there were other female crews out there but we felt that we were number one. So it was a whole different experience. I believe that this particular crew..because we were all females and we performed just so well.....that made it easier for us to get into doors than it was for other groups." 

January 5th, 1980: Touch Of Class rocks at the legendary Ecstasy Garage. This was the last time Hi-Cee performed with them.

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"From where did you know DJ Kenny Ken?"

HI-CEE:"I met him through Touch Of Class. We were jamming together somewhere and Kenny Ken is such a personable person.... he just started talking to me and we just clicked and then we became reallly cool friends. He married my best friend. I introduced him to his wife and it's history ever since (laughs). They just celebrated 40 years, so you know?! He saw in what kind of situation I was with Touch Of Class and he didn't like it. He intervened and I guess he knew Inner City Disco through La Spank (MC of Inner City Disco).....but yeah, he made the connection for me." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did they welcome you with open arms?"

HI-CEE:"Definetely. It was amazing. We really felt like family."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you manage to regularly get to your new crew's rehearsals in Queens?"

HI-CEE:"Yeah, well Kenny Ken was kinda helpful because he would drive out to Lefrak from time to time and when he wouldn't drive it would take me all day. I would hop on the train. It was a journey and it took a lot of time but that's what I love about New York..that ability to transfer to different neighbourhoods because of the train system. I spend a lot of time riding trains and that's how I became familiar with the city......all boroughs....with the exception of Staten Island. It was just something that had to be done. I didn't think much about it. My mother was very supportive with anything I wanted to do positive. She would just tell me to be careful and that we did. La Spank actually came from Gun Hill Projects which is not far from me. She's a couple of stops ahead of me. It just all kinda worked together. Lil Tee...I forgot...I think she was from the South Bronx. So, you know, we would all come back together to the Bronx. It was just us together. We would do what we had to do. We were very comitted!! It's just amazing to think back."

January 12th 1980: Inner City Disco rocks at the Ecstasy Garage in the Bronx along with the Heavenly 7. As you can see by that time Hi-C had already joined Inner City Disco.

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were you already present for that battle between Inner City Disco and the Mercedes Ladies?" 

HI-CEE:"Oh, are you kidding me? Some people say that they beat us but they never showed up because we were so ready!! We had all of our arsenal we had created. We had routines and we had rehearsed them to the tee. It was fly and we were ready and somebody probably told them that we were that ready as far as the MC battle of it.....'cause see their DJs couldn't touch our DJs!!! They just couldn't! And there were some guys that couldn't touch DJ Quenny Quen. One thing that Quenny Quen showed us that she should have did is that she mixed "Apache" blindfolded. Blindfolded!!!! Blindfolded!!! Do you hear me!!! That's something I will never forget! I wish that was recorded! That's something I will never forget! Never!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Well, when I interviewed Quenny Quen she stated that a battle did indeed take place between Inner City Disco and the Mercedes Ladies. She said that your crew had a routine in which each MC would call out his counterpart. She also said that she messed that part up because she called out her own name instead of that of DJ Baby D. Could it be that you weren't present for that battle?"

HI-CEE:"I know the first initial announcement......'cause we had practiced so hard. They didn't show up. So that battle must have happened at another time. The routine that she was talking about was one that I created off of that movie where this one gang calls out another gang. We would say, "Mercedes Ladies!!! Won't you come out to play??"

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's from that movie called "The Warriors"."

HI-CEE:"Yeah, exactly!!! But I'mma be honest with you I don't recall a battle with them. I don't remember that. It may have happened though when I wasn't around....I know it was a little drama about it and I think they called us out and we responded and they knew that we was ready so they didn't show up."

March 28th, 1980: Inner City Disco performs at the legendary T-Connection in the Bronx.

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I was told that your manager Pop believed so strongly in your crew because he bought equipment  and even clothes."

HI-CEE:"Oh yeah, he took us shopping! It was the most magical experience. One day..I believe we were in Macy's..probably been there the first time in my life....it was the first time that someone spend that kind of money on me and the other girls. Yeah, he took us shopping and we were ready! We were just ready!  From head to toe! He bought us shoes, he bought us jeans, he bought us swatshirts. All of our mics..we had top notch equipment!!! He invested a lot in us."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the role of each MC of Inner City Disco!"

HI-CEE:"I would say that Lady Sweet was like the beauty queen. La Spank was just a force, you know? She was just powerful. She would take over!! Lil Tee... she was just standard but she was a pretty girl. We were all scorpios I believe. And then me I would just rock the mic! I was just the lyrical one. And everybody was lyrical but you know I was the lyrical pro. Whenever they needed something clever or catchy.......or someone that would move the crowd that would be me. My skills were a little bit more advanced and I will say that I didn't think that there were any other female MCees out there that really were as lyrical as I was."

MC/DJ La Spank (Inner City Disco)

 

                                                            

MC Lady Sweet (Inner City Disco)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you rock with them in that big park in Lefrak which they referred to as Rock Creek Park?"

HI-CEE:"No. I went straight to the clubs with them."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I would like to ask you a couple of questions now which deal with the nature of true MCing. How did MC battles go down during your era, during the era of original pure MCing? Would MCees diss each other personally? Would they threaten each other?"

HI-CEE:"No, no way. MCing was a platform that was used to have a party, to have a good time and then later it got into that storytelling thing. Rap changed all of that. I believe al lot of it stems from that 2 Pac Biggie Smalls scenario. Rap now became adversarial to a degree where lives began to become threatened. They began to use Rap as a platform to threaten other people's lives and to tell tales of hurting and terrorizing other people's loved ones in that process. You just started to see things that were not the original intent of Hiphop. It took a different turn. The other huge I would say transition from my era...the true Hiphop era...to where we are now is that in the beginning the DJ was the center piece of Hiphop. It was all about the DJ, the DJ skills and the beats that he played, what they would do to keep the party going. The MCees were just pretty much the hype men for the DJs. So when it went to recording you no longer had the DJ. You didn't need the DJ and now it's all just focussed on the rapper. I think that was another huge transition that took Hiphop into a whole 'nother direction. That really changed the dynamics of Hiphop. Now the party element disappeared."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Reading about what happened to some of those legendary original  DJ/MC Crews after they got signed to record labels like Sugarhill Records about twentyfive years ago really shocked me. All of a sudden the DJs who started Hiphop and were the backbone of MCing became obsolete as they were replaced by a studio band and the record labels had no real use for them and didn't want to pay them." 

HI-CEE:"We lost a very huge part of Hiphop when that happened...you know, a part of the culture. It's not surprising that this was motivated by money but at the the end of it those early MCees would not have been where they were without their DJ. That's just the bottom line. The Furious Five would have been nothing without Grandmaster Flash,okay? Because in the beginning people came to see Flash. And yes, they were very good MCees but the people came to see Flash. The Funky Four Plus One they came with DJ Breakout and DJ Baron.They had the best beats that you could ever imagine!!!! I take off my hat to them....till today!!! These dudes??? Their crates???? Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.....Yeah, it was really incredible! I'm a music enthusiast. So I can appreciate the DJ side of it. But yeah, we lost a huge part of Hiphop when the recording of rap started to happen. DJing....it's a craft. It's something that you had to work for in order to master it and all these parties in the early days of Hiphop took place because of the DJs, because of their performances and the beats that they mixed." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you agree with the assertion that Hiphop music for the most part is a child of the Funk, Jazz & Soul music of the 1970ies?"

HI-CEE:"Absolutely!!! We would NOT HAVE HIPHOP if we didn't have these genres. No, no!!! The beat.....the breakbeat.....that is the driving factor of Hiphop. That is the core of Hiphop....the DJ in the mix!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"It is fascinating to ponder upon the efforts which the DJs invested back then in order to build up their soundsystem and what it took to find beats back then. Travelling through New York City, taking the train from the Bronx all the way down to Brooklyn, going to different thrift stores and looking through dusty stacks of records just to get a second copy of a specific breakbeat. At times the beat part was very short so the DJ had to be fast to be able to catch it and from those beats and DJ techniques grew a whole beautiful culture!!! I have interviewed many of the most influential B-Boys in Hiphop and most them stated that  hearing those breakbeats blasting through the speakers of a powerful soundsystem filled them with bliss. They called it a spiritual experience."

HI-CEE:"Yes!!!! And see that is the connection to our original culture...to Africa and just the power of that!!! It's a unique phenomenon."

SIR NORIN RAD:"No doubt. What did take to be a fresh MC in the original era of Hiphop? Like when it was all about rocking the mic live in front of a crowd with a DJ in the back cutting up breakbeats?"

HI-CEE:"Well, you had to stay on beat. You had to be able to rock as a unit. That really had to become your instinct. That's why the rehearsal piece is so important because DJs would have their own routines and what they were gonna play. So you had to be able to rock over their mixes and so you had to rehearse. Then you had cassette tapes so we would record the mix and we would rock over it so that we would become one with the beats. Were few people could rhyme off the top and I take my hat off to them but you had to go over your raps. And you had to go over your rhymes with the beats. And you would only rock certain rhymes over certain beats. So when you heard a specific beat at a party you knew,"Oh yes, I'm gonna pull out specific rhymes! These are the rhymes that I'm gonna rock to this beat!" The beats and the rhymes, they went together, you know? So sometimes when I was still with those outstanding MCees of Touch Of Class they would pass the mic to me when they heard  a certain break that they knew I was popular with."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that it was important to possess a certain charisma as an MC?"

HI-CEE:"Oh, definitely!!! You had to have a certain swag! You really had to be confident and part of that confidence came from how you looked. So when you knew that you had a show coming up you had to prepare for that show! And you know with Inner City Disco we had uniforms. Pop invested in us, in our uniforms and our look an we really looked like a group. So when you came to our show and you saw five ladies dressed alike you would do a double take and be like,"Oh wait a minute! Who are they?""

February 29th, 1980: Inner City Disco performs at the Ecstasy Garage in the Bronx

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your top three breakbeats to rhyme over?"

HI-CEE:""Scratching" by the Magic Disco Machine. That beat is crazy! Number two is "Frisco Disco" by Eastside Connection. I loved that. And then there was a song called "Planetary Citizen" by John Mac Laughlin. Loved that! That was my theme song!! That kinda goes back to the DJ Breakout days."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you must have attended the early DJ Breakout parties then. When it was still mainly about the B-Boys?"

HI-CEE:"What??? Of course!!!!! All the time!!! Come on, yo!!! I was there! I remember him playing "Indiscreet" by D.C. La Rue which was one of DJ Kenny Ken's favourites. We called that beat the Cricket Song!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"The Cricket Song?"

HI-CEE:"Yeah, 'cause the break sounds like a bunch of crickets. Breakout just used to go crazy with it. Baron was a good DJ, too. Don't get me wrong....He was more of a party DJ. Kinda little on the Disco side....just a little. But Breakout was the hardcore B-Boy Beatmaster. If you wanted to hear raw beats you would go to his jams. I remember when he played "Give The Drummer Some More" by The Little Hooks with Ray Nato & The Kings. People would go crazy over that beat!!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Last question........what was it like to perform in front of a BX crowd back then. I mean I guess the people in the crowd pretty much decided who would make it as an MC and who would not, didn't they?"

HI-CEE:"Oh yeah, they weren't kind. So....here's the thing if you didn't step up and you weren't good you knew it because they would let you know and that ended whatever MC career you had. So when you see those MCees that were able to perform for any length of time back then you know that they were tried because if you weren't good you were not gonna see them anymore. That's what also happened to a lot of DJs early on. Many of them didn't have the equipment or the beats to make it. You really had to have some money behind you to some degree to be able to be out there! The equipment piece alone was a huge investment to make sure you had the right speakers and the right amplification. That's how you were tested during that time. The abililty to bring some power with your equipment and your beats and then your skills, you know? So if you made it to any degree you had a formula that was working. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give some shout outs at the end of this interview?"

HI-CEE:"Oh sure, I'm gonna shout out my son who has a career of himself in R&B & Hiphop. H continues with the legacy of the family and I definetely wanna shout out my two crews the Inner City Disco and Touch Of Class. And DJ Breakout, too, because he was very influential in Hiphop in my area and in my era. But yeah, that's who I'm shouting out."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I wanna shout out my Intruders Crew and my mellow Sureshot La Rock (thanks for all the flyers)."

 

 

 
 

 

Interview wit MC Ikey Cee (The Dynamite Brothers / The Cosmic Force)

                       Interview with MC Ikey Cee (The Dynamite Brothers/ The Cosmic Force)

MC Ikey Cee (The Dynamite Brothers / The Cosmic Force)

                                          conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders/Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly were you born and raised at?"

IKEY CEE:"I was born in the Bronx......actually Jacobi Hospital...in 1965 on October 7th."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, and where you did you grow up at?"

IKEY CEE:"You know it's weird. I really didn't grow up mostly in the Bronx. My father was in the service, so I was all over the place. My family is originally from the South Bronx but I grew up in Germany, I grew up in Texas, I grew up in Mexico. So I grew up in a lot of different places. Then we came back to New York in the late 1970ies and Hiphop was going on strong where I ended up growing up in the Bronx right by Throgs Neck."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall the very first time that you encountered Hiphop?"

IKEY CEE:"Yup...a lot of my family lived in Forest Projects. My family was a real basketball oriented family so I used to go to Forest Projects every summer. My mother lived in Throgs Neck but I used to go every summer playing basketball in Forest Projects. And if you know Forest Projects that's actually where Fat Joe comes from."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's also where the Blue Courts are located at, right?"

IKEY CEE:"Yup, the Blue Courts! Wow, you know a lot! Those Blue Courts...Lovebug Starski was out there DJing. I left from playing on the other side of the tournament and I watched Lovebug do it and on that day I said,"I think I can do that!" 'Cause back then it wasn't so much about intricate rhyming and all that. It was more about getting the party going but Lovebug Starski was a DJ and an MC. So I was like, "Yo, that's nice!" when I saw him doing it. Lovebug Starski used to be DJing  in a Burger King on Prospect Avenue. We was little. So we used to sneak up in the back of the Burger King and look through the window and watch him DJing. May God bless him! I always told him before he passed, "You're the reason why I did this MCing thing." He's the reason. He was on one of those Blue Courts and I saw him and I was like, "I wanna do this!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did that happen?"

IKEY CEE:"It had to be around 1977 'cause by 1978 I was really rhyming.  By 1979 I think I was down with DJ Disco King Mario."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how you got into MCing! What made you pick up a pen and start writing rhymes?"

IKEY CEE:"I mean it was the control that Lovebug Starski had over the crowd and things like that which made me say, "I wanna do this!" It was so amazing to me at the time. I was like, "Wow! Look at this dude! He's out here on the court. All he got is two turntables, a mixer and a microphone and he got everybody going crazy!" And I just wanted to have that! I wanted to have that power that he had. If you hear anything about me I was never really a super duper rhymer but I was more into getting the crowd going and you know that's what I got from Lovebug Starski." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what were your first steps towards achieveing the goal of becoming an MC?"

IKEY CEE:"I actually was backwards 'cause I went out and bought records. I bugged my mum and we went down to Harlem..I got a couple of records and from there I started writing rhymes but I wanted the music first.I wanted to understand the music, I wanted to feel the music 'cause that to me was a bigger part than anything else...just understanding the music and then from there I started rhyming but I wasn't like out there. I was doing it on the low, in the house and all of that. Then after I got down with Mario I started moving out a little bit." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you get down with DJ Disco King Mario?"

IKEY CEE:"Like I tell eveybody Mario is such a big part of Hiphop that everybody starts to forget. He was one of the very first DJs in Hiphop! Mario was one of the first DJs that would travel from place to place. And when Mario came to Throgs Neck....when I was living in Throgs Neck.....he recruited all of us and when he recruited all of us that's when I kinda started rhyming more, he would let me get on every now and then but I wasn't getting the shine that I got once I got down with DJ Afrika Bambaataa. He would let me nurture my skills. Put it that way!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you're saying that Mario got around to different places a lot?"

IKEY CEE:"Oh yeah, Mario was definetely the epitome of that. Mario would DJ anywhere that he was welcome. That's what it was. When we met him he asked us,"Where do you live? Throgs Neck? Okay, I'm gonna come ot there DJing." We were all excited about this 'cause he came out there with his full sound system. That's why I say I give him a lot of props that other people don't give him 'cause he died young."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that the DJs back then actually were enabling the MCees to build a reputation for themselves by letting them get on the mic?"

IKEY CEE:"Yeah, that's what it was. Mario basically gave me the chance to kinda show my skills. He gave me the chance to kinda like break through, you know? And that's what kinda caught the attention of other people out there. I mean back then it was the Golden Era. In the Golden Era you had to be good in your building, you had to be good on your block, you had to be good in your neighbourhood and then it transferred around through those live tapes. That's how everybody knew who you were and what you did."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you join Mario after you had been rocking in Throgs Neck?"

IKEY CEE:"Well, we already had the Come Off Crew and that's why Mario came up there 'cause we was making a lot of noise out of Throgs Neck. We also used to go to 123 where he was giving parties at. So my movement into Mario's camp came after the Come Off was alreay developed."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That Come Off Crew is not to be confused with the Come Off Crew from Uptown that played Disco though, right?"

IKEY CEE:"Yeah, it was a different crew. What it was in Throgs Neck there were really two big crews at one point.  There was a crew called Disco One which was with Rocky Dee. If you hear those early Dynamite Brothers tapes Rocky Dee is on there with us. Disco One was his crew. I was part of that crew actually."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the members of the Come Off Crew? Their main DJ was DJ Boobie Boob, correct?"

IKEY CEE:"DJ Boobie Boob, yeah! He was great!  They had DJ Kenny Ken...God bless the dead!  He passed on, he was a good DJ. Who else they had? Those were really the main DJs though."

June 6th 1980: The Dynamite Brothers and the Come Off Crew join forces to battle the Music Masters at the Throgs Neck Community Center.

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the MCees of the Come Off Crew?"

IKEY CEE:"The original MCees was.......E-Man..he was one of the original MCees. Larry Tee..he was like my brother and he was one of the MCees and actually Chubby Chub was also down with the Come Off Crew. I was running with Disco One at that time. Actually, I never came over to the Come Off Crew until we became the Dynamite Brothers." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I  see. So where would the Come Off Crew perform at?"

IKEY CEE:"Throgs Neck..the center and the park. They used to do the park like almost every weekend."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where is that park located at?"

IKEY CEE:"It was actually in the middle of the projects between Dewey and Schley Avenue, right in the middle by the basketball courts. That's where we used to do it. Then there was another park that we had in the back of the projects. It was a big park. We would DJ and MC there every now and then but mostly we would do it in the middle of the projects between Dewey and Schley."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Are those the places where you developed yur MCing skills?"

IKEY CEE:"Yeah, definetely."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the relationship between your first crew Disco One and the Come Off Crew?"

IKEY CEE:"It was really weird because it was like a lot of beef because Disco One was Rocky Dee and he was a street dude and a lot of dudes from the Come Off Crew they were street dudes as well and really that's what kinda developed the Dynamite Brothers because Elroy who was the DJ for the Dynamite Brothers wasn't into nothing but the music. He wasn't about the streets. So that's why I ended up as a Dynamite Brother because I didn't wanna end up in the middle of all of that. You know, that back and forth."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So there was a heightened sense of rivalry between those two crews?"

IKEY CEE:"Yeah, yeah!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when did the Dynamite Brothers start? Was that before or after you had gotten down with DJ Mario?"

IKEY CEE:"Actually, it started after we was with Mario 'cause basically the Dynamite Brothers ended up being like an offshoot of Mario and an offshoot of the Zulu Nation....as we developed. So we kept the Dynamite Brothers cause when the Dynamite Brother got all together it was me, Ice Ice, Chubby Chub, Rocky Dee, EZ Bee and R Rockwell. You know, we were the MCees. Our DJ was Elroy. We kinda developed as we was going along. "

January 11th, 1980: The Dynamite Brothers rock at the Audubon Ballroom in Harlem along with DJ Love Squigg & The C.B. Crew, Afrika Islam & The Funk Machine, The Kool DJ AJ Show and DJ Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long did you stay with Mario? A couple of months?"

IKEY CEE:"Yeah, not that long because what happened was we were out and about and as you start to be out and about people started to see that you had a new crew out here making a lot of noise and being that the Zulu Nation was so big they wanted us. So they actually like crossed over. We actually left Mario in the middle of a party. We had Chuck City Crew shirts on and Bambaataa came over to us like, "Yo, you wanna be down with the Zulu Nation?" So we all took our shirts off in the middle of the party and left to be part of the Zulu Nation."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I find it interesting that a lot of people started out with Mario and then later on went over to DJ Afrika Bambaataa and his Zulu Nation. This was the case with DJ Jazzy Jay who even got into a physical fight with Mario when he went to Mario's house to pick up his crates from there in order to join Bambaataa...."

IKEY CEE:"Yeah, they had a fight."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Mike G a well-known B-Boy who was down Mario also left him and joined Afrika Bambaataa's Shaka Zulu B-Boys. I guess Mario wasn't too happy about all that."

IKEY CEE:"No, he wasn't happy about none of that. He wasn't happy but I do always say I give him his props because he was the beginning for a lot of us. Jazzy Jay comes from Mario, I come from Mario, Busy Bee comes from Mario. So a lot of people come from Mario. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what your relationship to Mario like after you had left him? Did you have to fear any kind of negative repercussions  because of your decision?"

IKEY CEE:"Nah, 'cause Zulu Nation was so big. Nobody really wanted to deal with them."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did it mean back then to be a part of the Zulu Nation? Were you given those Zulu Beads? Did you have to attend specific meetings? Did you have to study and follow the Infinity Lessons?"

IKEY CEE:"To be honest you're asking the worst person in the world 'cause I never really followed the Zulu Infinity Lessons and all of that. I was there as an MC. I was down, but I wasn't really part of that. I mean I love the Zulu Nation....it's like a family to me. But back then I wasn't really into learning the lessons and all of that...not even the Zulu Meetings...I didn't go to too many because I was there just to get on the mic. It was about the music."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did the members of the Dynamite Brothers come together? You've said that one part of the Dynamite Brothers used to be down with the Come Off Crew while the other part rolled with the Disco One Crew and these two crews had beef with each other."

IKEY CEE:"Well, as far as the MCees it was easy because Ice Ice and Chubby Chub are brothers. Bringing them together was pretty easy and then me and Ice Ice we were always best friends so that was pretty easy, too. What it was is like me and Ice Ice hung out together so much, we just started making up routines together and as we started making up routines we added Chubby Chub. You know, that's how we ended up saying,"You know something? Let's rock with the Dynamite Brothers 'cause it's really all about the music." And that's what it was. We ended up with the Dynamite Bothers. Elroy was a great DJ, so you know it was a good fit."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Judging from the Dynamite Brothers flyers that I have seen so far it seems that you had actually three DJs: DJ Elroy, DJ Rocky Dee and DJ Lightning J. So who was in charge of what?"

IKEY CEE:"Yes, (Lightning) J was pretty good, too. Everybody had their job. Rocky Dee was both DJ and MC. Remember like I said you can find certain tapes with him rhyming with us, you know? Elroy really was the headman in charge of the group though. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which DJ was in charge of cutting up the beats for the MCees?"

IKEY CEE:"I would let them know what we needed. So I would let Elroy know, "Yo, we need this, this and that!"and he would play 'em."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of soundsystem did the Dynamite Brothers have?"

IKEY CEE:"We had a soundsystem. It wasn't the best one out there though. The Come Off Crew had the best soundsystem in Throgs Neck. They really did. What it was is like when Hiphop became more organized the Dynamite Brothers was a good organization, you know what I mean? Like we would do a lot of routines and I had everybody rehearse. Things like that. The Come Off Crew was more of a natural, "In the park we just do what we do." Which was good at a certain time but then as Hiphop evolved you had to come out there with your routines and your DJ had to know which records to play. All that was more of a Dynamite Brothers thing, being more organized."

The Cosmic Force MCees and friends at the T-Connection

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you invest a lot of time and effort into your rehearsals?"

IKEY CEE:"Oh yeah! Like I said, Chubby Chub and Ice Ice they were brothers. I practiced with them in their house 'cause we would be there everyday rehearsing. Everyday! 'Cause me and Ice Ice would be together anyway. He was my best friend so we would always be around each other. When we were around each other we would be practicing and throwing things back and forth basically everyday." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you also do harmonizing like the Funky Four with Rahiem who had a really good singing voice?"

IKEY CEE:"Yeah, we did routines, we harmonized. What it was is like we...Ice Ice, Chubby Chub and me...we kinda brought that to the Zulu Nation. By the time we was getting with Bam, leaving Mario...the Soul Sonic Force, if you remember, they were like nine MCees at one point. They were doing no routines. They were doing nothing like that. So when we came along we kinda made them change up a little bit because before we came along MC G.L.O.B.E. and Pow Wow wasn't doing routines like they were doing later on. When we came along it got them more into it." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"If I'm not mistaken the Soul Sonic Force also had an MC by the name of Ice Ice at one point. Was there any kind of animosity between the two MCees who had this name when the Dynamite Brothers joined the Zulu Nation?"

IKEY CEE:"No animosity and the thing was when me, Chubby Chub and Ice Ice came in the other Ice Ice was fading out because when we came in that's when the Soul Sonic Force shrunk down because we made it tougher for them. When we came in Hutch Hutch was going right away because he didn't like the fact that we were coming in. You know, we were a little bit younger and we were doing things different and you know a lot of the members of the Soul Sonic Force didn't like that. Afrika Bambaataa let us do it the way we wanted to it though because we wasn't gonna do it no other way than the way that we wanted to do it. So if you notice... like those flyers starting from 1980 on...the Soul Sonic Force started shrinking down. "

October 3rd,, 1980: The Cosmic Force is rocking at the legendary Ecstasy Garage along with Afrika Bambaataa and The Soul Sonic Force (Note that there two MCs by the name of Ice Ice. One is rocking for The Soul Sonic Force, the other one rocks for The Cosmic Force )

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Right. Please describe the role of each MC within the Dynamite Brothers!"

IKEY CEE:"We were a good combination. I lead the group but I lead the group by watching other leaders. The first one I watched was Rahiem when he was with the Funky Four. His leadership was really out of this world! I watched his leadership and said, "I'mma apply this to my group." I was more like the leader. I was more like the party guy. Chubby Chub was the rhymer. He was THE rhymer! Chubby Chub could outrhyme me any day of the week 'cause he was forever writing rhymes! To me Ice Ice was the first heart throb in Hiphop. Everywhere we went the ladies was going crazy for him, you know? So we had a really good combination. We had the skills, we had the routines and we had the heart throb. So everybody played their own role well. That's why we did decent and that's one part of the reason why the Soul Sonic Force kinda dwindled away because they didn't have that. They didn't have the heart throb. They didn't have the routines like we did. You know, later on they did. Pow Wow came up with some great stuff. " 

MC Chubby Chub and his little brother MC Ice Ice (The Dynamite Brothers / The Cosmic Force)

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"At one point the Dynamite Brothers obviously became the Cosmic Force and you parted ways with DJ Rocky Dee, DJ Lightning J, EZ Bee and R Rockwell. Why did that happen?"

IKEY CEE:" Well, we was more connected to the Zulu Nation. The Dynamite Brothers was part of the Zulu Nation but then we was more connected to Bam. That's when you started seeing flyers that said Dynamite Brothers and Cosmic Force. My man Rocky Dee...Rocky Dee wasn't as serious about it. That's why it became just Ikey Cee, Ice Ice and Chubby Chub. That was the Cosmic Force. We transitioned into being Afrika Bambaataa's second group of MCees."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I also want to shed light on those who may not have become that famous in Hiphop but nonetheless did their thing and were part of the foundation. How would you rate EZ Bee's MCing skills?"

IKEY CEE:"Oh, EZ Bee was a rhymer!!!  He was a real rhymer! Him and R Rockwell!!! As a matter of fact R Rockwell was a real great rhymer! He's an MC....if he had stuck with it he would have went much further. EZ Bee had a slow, laid back style of rhyming. He had an altogether different style. I would compare him to Mase from Bad Boy."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the Dynamite Brothers perform in the same locations as the Come Off Crew and Disco One?"

IKEY CEE:"Yes, we did and we branched out a little bit because of the close connection to the Zulu Nation that the Dynamite Brothers had. Actually, the Come Off Crew was part of the Zulu Nation, too."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When and why did Queen Lisa Lee join the Cosmic Force? Wasn't she down with the Soul Sonic Force initially?"

IKEY CEE:"Yes, she was one of the million MCees that were down with the Soul Sonic Force at one point (laughs). What happened was the night we went to record "Zulu Nation Throwdown"..our first record...the Soul Sonic Force went in....Mr. Biggs, Pow Wow and MC G.L.O.B.E...and they started working on the routine without us. We was standing there. I wanted Lisa Lee to be with us anyway. So I was like,"You know something? Here's my chance!" I went over to her and said,"Listen! Why don't you make the record with us instead of making it with them?" And then she came over to us and stayed with us."

November 2nd, 1980: The Cosmic Force is rocking at the legendary T-Connection in the Bronx along with DJ Love Squigg & The C.B. Crew and The Cool Out Crew

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your top 3 breakbeats to rhyme over back then?"

IKEY CEE:""Impeach The President" by The Honey Drippers, "Seven Minutes Of Funk" by The Whole Darn Family and "Catch A Groove" by Juice."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay and which DJ cut those breakbeats up in such a way that you felt you had to get on the microphone and rock the house?"

IKEY CEE:"Catch A Groove"...DJ Boobie Boob. He was the best with "Catch A Groove". I mean he would tear that up! And "Seven Minutes Of Funk"...I used to like Afrika Issac cutting that up because he knew my "stops" and he knew my "gos." And everything else DJ Jazzy Jay and Kool DJ Red Alert."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I must say that I'm surprised by the fact that you give DJ Boobie Bob so much credit. Was he really that good?"

IKEY CEE:"Oh yeah! Let me tell you.... when DJ Mario came to Throgs Neck he had a DJ with him by the name of DJ Lil Starski. He battled Boobie Boob when they came to Throgs Neck and Boobie tore him a new one, he totally demolished him."

SIR NORIN RAD:"You have also mentioned DJ Afrika Issac from the Crazy Eight Crew. How would you rate him as a DJ and how did you get down with him?"

IKEY CEE:"As a DJ? Oh my God! He was actually great! He was one of the best out there.... cutting it up and all that....he was one of the fastest cutters at the time. How I got with him was really more of an Ice Ice thing 'cause Ice Ice was really close to him. They (The Crazy Eight) were from Monroe Projects. Ice Ice was all over the place. That was him. He was everywhere. So  one day Ice Ice came to me and said, "Let's rock with Crazy Eight" and I said, "Let's do it!" You know, Ice Ice was like my brother if he said it I was gonna come with him. That's how I ended up with them. Issac's personality was great! He was a little weird 'cause he had snakes and spiders and pitbulls in his house. He was a great dude and he had a great family around him. His mum, his brother they were all great people. When we started rocking with the Crazy Eight we was welcomed by the whole neighbourhood. You know, back then everything was about the neighbourhood. This hood, that hood..... We were welcomed in their neighbourhood like we had lived all our lives. Afrika Issac was on a come up and so were we. He was making a lot of noise and we was maing a lot of noise, too. So it was really a good fit at the time. We was rocking in 100 Park all the time. That was their park, they ran that. We would come out there and battle DJ Kenny Ken & The K Connection a couple of times."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who won those battles?"

IKEY CEE:"Oh, we always had them because we had Afrika Issac. You couldn't touch him!!! There were only very few DJs that could touch Issac back then. Like I said DJ Boobie Bob was one of them but they never got to go against each other. DJ Elroy was very good, DJ Jazzy Jay of course. Jazzy Jay and Afrika Issac never battled though 'cause they were both down with the Zulu Nation."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the MCees of the K-Connection Crew pose a threat to you?"

IKEY CEE:"Nah!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did all the other Soul Sonic Force MCees treat you when you started rocking for Afrika Bambaataa at Bronx River and how did the crowd react when you performed there for the first time?"

IKEY CEE:"You know what it was? It was a show and prove. As I said we were younger than all of them. So it was a show and prove type situation. We showed and proved everybody that we could do it just as good as them. It was a respect thing that they gave us. Bronx River...I mean a lot people tought that we were from Bronx River. That's how comfortable we were there. I loved Bronx River and Bronx River loved me. The same love I felt in Throgs Neck I felt in Bronx River and in Monroe. It wasn't like I came to invade a territory, I was coming to be a part of what you have to help what you have and you can help me. So we was all helping each other."

March 13th 1981:  The Cosmic Force battles against The Ultimate Three from Kool Herc's camp at the T-Connection (Note: By this time Queen Lisa Lee is a part of the Cosmic Force)

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did MC battles go down in your era?"

IKEY CEE:"It was just show and prove. I didn't have to tell you what I was gonna do to you. We didn't rap about killing each other and stuff like that. When I came up as an MC....Hutch Hutch..who was down with Soul Sonic..he was like, "You're gonna be the son of Hutch!" and I was like,"No, I'm not because I'm better than Hutch! I'm gonna be nobody's son!" And that was the mentality. It was a competition. just like as the Cosmic Force came along with the Soul Sonic Force. We wanted to show them that, "Listen, you're gonna respect us!" It was never a Cosmice Force vs. Soul Sonic Force battle. It was nothing like that. It was just like, "Okay, we gotta respect these dudes 'cause they're coming here every week with something different. They're coming here with routines. They're coming here wearing the same clothes." So they respected us. It wasn't about talking about each other. It was about...if we're coming, you know that we're coming with something good. It's not nothing against you. It's just that we wanna be looked at as the best and we gonna do whatever it takes to be looked at as the best. My high school which was Lehmann High School was like Hiphop High and I give you the reason why. I went to that school, KK Rockwell went to that school, Rodney Cee went to that school, Jazzy Jeff went to that school, El-Roy who was down with Afrika Islam went to that school, Chubby Chub went to that school and Ice Ice went to that school. We were all in the same high school. Back then at lunch time they used to bang on the table and we used to rhyme. Me and Rodney Cee...back then we called ourselves Lil Ikey Cee and Lil Rodney Cee...we would go off kicking rhymes. That was just an everyday thing!!!  All these MCees..everybody had skills. That was the best in Lehmann. We're just rhyming! We're just kicking it!!! And then you know we use to give the high school parties...some parties the Funky Four would give...some parties the Dynamite Brothers would give. There was some tension but we never ever fought."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How important was it for an MC to dress fly back then?"

IKEY CEE:"That was very important. You see that was another thing that we brought to the Zulu Nation when the Cosmic Force came to the Zulu Nation. They didn't do that. Me and Ice Ice we went out and bought Hush Puppies and certain jans and certain shirts. We would come there with all the same things on. That made a difference. That's what made us special."

The Cosmic Force MCees with Zulu Nation member Mike Hines

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of character traits did an MC have to have in order to make it in Hiphop back then?"

IKEY CEE:"I say it in three words: DON'T BE AFRAID! That's it. Everybody wanted to be an MC back then but the ones that weren't afraid were the ones that became MCees."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Last question: Why was the DJ so important for Hiphop back then?"

IKEY CEE:"The DJ knew the records, he had all the beats. And the DJ knew the MCees. The DJ knew the pace of the MCees. The DJ knew what this MC sounded good on and what this MC didn't sound good on. That's why the MC was very important. And then like back then it wasn't a Rap Show, it was about the party as a whole. The DJ had to keep the people partying before and after the MCees got on."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you so very much!"

IKEY CEE:"Thank you! I appreciate what you're doing!"

 

Interview with DJ Afrika Issac (The Crazy 8)

                                             Interview with DJ Afrika Issac (The Crazy 8)

                   

                                                 

DJ Afrika Issac (The Crazy 8)

 

 

            

                                   conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders/Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly were you born and raised at?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"I was born and raised in the Bronx in the Monroe Projects on Story Avenue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay and in which year were you born?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"I was born in 1960."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Are you of Puerto Rican descent?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"I'm biracial. I'm Puerto Rican and Polish. My dad is from Poland, my mother is Puerto Rican."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So to what kind of music were you listening to as a child growing up?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"As a young boy growing up I was mainly listening to Rock music."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of Rock music was that?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"I was listening to stuff like Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Kiss, Kansas...stuff like that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So who was it that introduced you to all the Funk, Soul and Jazz breakbeats? Was it DJ Afrika Little Khayan (RIP)? "

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yes, that was Khayan."

SIR NORIN RAD:“How did you meet him?“

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:“We met cause we were both first riding bikes. You know, dirtbikes...stuff like that. I ride motorcycles. So that’s how we met. He had a Suzuki and I had a 125 Honda. He rode and I rode and that’s how we met. We met in the projects cause we both lived in the same projects. Monroe Projects..He lived just a building away from me and he already knew Bam (DJ Afrika Bambaataa). So one day he said, „I wanna introduce you to Afrika Bambaataa.“ And that‘s how I met Afrika Bambaataa and his MCees of The Soul Sonic Force. Khayan was already DJing by that time. So when I saw him messing with those records I was introduced to Funk and R&B music. He was doing a lot of backspinning like Grandmaster Flash. There wasn‘t too many people that were doing that needle dropping. I got that from Grandwizard Theodore from The L-Brothers. He was the first one that I had seen dropping the needle at the beginning of the breakbeat again and again without ever missing the beat. I gravitated towards that. That became a part of my style.“

DJ Afrika Little Khayan (The Crazy 8)

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your first Hiphop jam experience like? Where and when did it take place?"

DJ AFRIKA ISAAC:"As a matter of fact the first jam that I ever went to was an Afrika Bambaataa jam at Bronx River. I went with Khayan and his guys, you know? So we was in Bronx River and this girl started talking to me. She called me up to her. We were in this dark corner talkimg to each other and then Bambaataa's own cousin stuck me up! He walked up behind me and pulled out a pistol and cocked it back. He tried to take my medallion but I wouln't give it to him. So then he forced me to give it to him.  So then I left. They didn't know I left and I went and got my older brother an he came with his crew (chuckles). They had two pitbulls and they went inside Bronx River and put everybody against the wall and got my medallion back. Then after that me and Bam had a meeting, he spoke to his cousin and he got the whole shit squashed."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So your first jam experience was a rather negativ one?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yeah, it was."

SIR NORIN RAD:"But nonetheless you went on to become a well-known DJ. What sparked your motivation to become a DJ?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Just watching DJ Afrika Little Khayan mixing. You know, going back to beginning of the beat, extending the beat. That’s what drew me in. Taking two records and making a whole different song out of it. That’s what I used to do. Like I would take the record „Scratching“ by The Magic Disco Machine and I would make a new song out of its break. That’s what sparked my interest.“

SIR NORIN RAD:“Where did you practice in the very beginning of your DJ career? Would you go over to DJ Afrika Little Khayan‘s house?“

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:“Yeah, yeah in the beginning  I used to always go to his house cause his building was right next to mine. He lived in 1770 on Story Avenue. I went upstairs to his apartment, up to his room and we kept on practicing for hours on his turntables ‘cause I didn’t have turntables at the time. After we had met I started going to his house slowly and then more on the weekend. I just made it a habit. Then we started playing literally everyday.“

SIR NORIN RAD:“What kind of turntables did he have?“

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:“He had the belt drive Technics. Matter of fact we both had them cause after a while I went and got my own Technics turntables. From then on  I would stay at my mom‘s house and I used to be playing all day and night. I decided to stay in my bedroom and to practice for hours.....countless hours. I wouldn't even go outside. People from all over would gather in front of my bedroom window and listen to me playing my music because I lived on the second floor. I was real close to the ground. Sometimes I would hear them cheering outside. That's how I got real nice. Everything else became secondary to me. “

SIR  NORIN RAD:“So is it accurate to say that DJ Afrika Little Khayan taught you how to DJ?“

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:“He didn’t really show me no tricks but he showed me how to mix the records.“

SIR NORIN RAD:“As far as introducing new beats into Hiphop is concerned what was your method of finding breakbeats that no other DJ had ever played before in HipHop?“

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:“My method was looking into Rock music! I incorporated Rock beats into R&B. Every time I started playing I always started with Rock. I would play songs like „Kashmere“ by Led Zeppelin or „Keep Your Distance“ by Babe Ruth and I would mix those with R&B Beats. Remember Aerosmith did a song with Run D.M.C called „Walk This Way?“  They say Run D.M.C.  brought Rock music into Hiphop but I was already doing that in the 1970ies. Matter of fact I used to play the original version of  „Walk This Way“ back then. Playing Rock & Roll Beats was my signature style. Everybody knew I would start my set with Rock music.Always! I just loved the sound of it when it came out of  my speakers. It always filled the air, you know.“

SIR NORIN RAD:"How old were you when you started DJing?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"I was about 15 or 16. Some shit like that." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So that means you were already doing it in the mid-1970s?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you must have witnessed Hiphop before the advent of the MCees. When the parties were still all about the DJ and the B-Boys and B-Girls."

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Oh yeah, the B-Boys would always be at the parties waiting for us to play the heavy beats so they could get down and do their thing. They were always in the crowd forming circles where they would get down! I didn' t pay them too much attention though because I was too busy DJing, trying to keep the tempo up, you know?" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Are you familiar with a B-Boy from Monroe that was called Rick The Worm?" 

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yes, I know Rick The Worm. He's my friend. He was a B-Boy and also a troublemaker. A big troublemaker! He always wanted to fight somebody."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I was told that he would dance with a cup of liqour in his hand without spilling it."

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yeah, I remember that! He was nice! Everybody liked his style of dancing. He was a dancer and a bodyguard (laughs)."   

November 10th, 1979: DJ Afrika Issac rocks at the Bronx River Center along DJ Afrika Bambaataa, DJ Jazzy Jay, DJ Afrika Islam and the Soul Sonic Force MCs

SIR NORIN RAD:“Please describe how you build up your own sound system!“

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:“Remember I told you last time we spoke that I used to build speakers.  I sold a lot of those speakers to other DJs. They would buy them from me. That‘s how I got the money to buy my own sound system.“

SIR NORIN RAD:“DJ Lightning Lance told me that his first DJ partners the Thomas Twins bought speakers from you in 1978.“

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:“Right. I still do carpenter work now.“

SIR NORIN RAD:“So when did you start doing parties?“

DJ AFRIKA ISAAC:“The first party I did was in Monroe Center.  A lot of people were coming to party.  They had to pay at the door. I was doing it by myself. Then I went to JHS 123 to play. Then I played at a boat ride. Then I played at Bronx River. That‘s when I started to go to different places to DJ. Later on we also went against the Mac Dynasty Crew.“

SIR NORIN RAD:“Yes, we are going to address that battle later. What is the story behind that DJ name of yours?“

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:“Afrika Bambaataa gave that name to me. I don’t remember how that came about. I had started playing with him. He started to let me play on his set and he was impressed by what I did on the turntables. I know that he came up with the name and said, „We gonna call you Isaac“ He also said,“This is the son of Bambaataa!“ Khayan had already gotten his name from Bambaataa.“

July 28th, 1979: DJ Afrika Isaac rocks with DJ Afrika Bambaataa &The Soul Sonic Force at Castle Hill Park in the Bronx

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So Bambaataa put you down with the Zulu Nation because he liked your DJ skills?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yeah, he just took a liking to me and then he saw that I was playing Rock beats and he said, "Yo man, that's good that you got your own style! You got a different style! You're different!""

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did Afrika Bambaataa tell you some song titles that had a nice breakbeat?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"No, he never told me any song titles. What he would do was he would sometimes pass me some of his records when I was playing on his set and he would tell me which part of which song I should play. He'd be like, "Play the beginning of the third song!" We were good friends."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, and did he ask you about song titles since you had such a vast knowledge of Rock music?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Not really. He always had his own ways. He was never one to follow nobody. You know Bambaataa. Bambaataa is the leader. Everybody was following what he was playing. He wasn't following nobody.

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of relationship did you have with the numerous other Zulu Nation DJs like DJ Jazzy Jay or DJ Afrika Islam?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"We were all like cool with each other but I wasn't talking too much with them, you know? 'Cause they had their own different set. They all were Bambaataa's people that had their own set like me." 

January 11th, 1980: Afrika Isaac & The Crazy 8 are rocking at the Adoubon Ballroom in Harlem along with Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul sonic Force and other Zulu Nation crews as well as with Kool DJ AJ and Lovebug Starski

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your home base? Like where would you throw most of your indoor and outdoor parties at?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"My home base was Monroe. Like I said I would do parties in Monroe Center. During the summertime I would play in 100 Park. It's a school...PS 100. They had a park in the back.....a playground. We would go right out there. It was right across from my building."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you have a security crew that had your back at those parties? I was told by different DJs and MCees that you had to have a crew because there was always the danger of cats trying to snatch your equipment and records."

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"That's true. Some people had crews but we didn't have security 'cause everybody knew us already. Everybody knew us!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who came up with the name Crazy 8 Crew and who were its members?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Curt came up with that name. We were all from the same projects. Me and Khayan were the DJs. Lisa Lee started out with us before she went on to MC for Bambaataa. Curt was one of my MCees as well. Squirpy La Rock was another one.  That was my next door neighbour. Matter of fact that was my best friend in the whole team. He was our MC but he was also in charge of the equipment. He would put the wires together and he would even DJ sometimes. If Khayan didn't want to DJ he would spin. He was like the all around guy. He would help with the system, he would carry the system. He would help with the system. He was the main source! You know why? Because he was the closest to me!  Later on Ice Ice and Lil Ikey Cee would also get on the mic for us from time to time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about Chipper Chip?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Chipper used to live with me. My mother almost adopted him. She never adopted him but his father threw him out of the house and he ended up living with me. He stayed in the same bedroom with me. So Chipper lived with me. He tried to rap but he did not have that knack for MCing. You know some people have that knack and some people don't have it. He was more of a fighter, you know what I'm saying? He would always have my back. The same is true for Loose. He was a troublemaker, a loose canon. He would take no shit from nobody but he was no MC. He was my boy but he wasn't really into the music. He was just there with us all the time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did the Crazy 8 Crew form?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Around 1978//79. That's when all these crews started to form all over the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that you and your Crazy 8 Crew benefitted from the fact that you were down with the Zulu Nation?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:" Yeah, definetely!! Being down with Bam and everything like that it kept everything cool with us. I never had a problem with anybody except for when Flip did that craziness in our battle against the MacDynasty Crew. Jumping over their rope.....his foot caught the rope and that's what brought their speaker crashing down. Boom!!! It sounded like an explosion! It was real loud, you know?"

November 17th, 1979: DJ Afrika Isaac rocks at the Bronx River Center along with the Dynamite Brothers and the C.B. Crew

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who exactly was Flip?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"He was just a good friend. He was like a roadie."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When I interviewed MC Hutchy Bee from MacDynasty Crew he told me that after their speaker had fallen to the floor a big fight broke out in Bronx River and him and his crew mates were basically jumped by the people of their own project...."

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yeah, because everybody liked us! Everybody knew us! I was known from Castle Hill down to Bronx River, down to Soundview Projects, down to Cozy Corner......everybody liked us, they didn't like Mac Dynasty Crew as much as they liked us. Don't get me wrong...Mac Dynasty.. they was nice but the crowd liked us more. That's why that happened." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you battle any other crews besides Mac Dynasty Crew?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yeah, yeah, we battled DJ Kenny Ken & The K-Connection Crew. Kenny Ken he lived very close to me as well. We also battled Steven Akins. There were a bunch of little crews all around that did their thing. It wasn't just four or five crews back then. There were so many of them that people don't talk about anymore. I met Grandwizard Theodore through the K-Connection Crew. Kenny Ken was the one that introduced me to Theodore. Me and Kenny Ken were close because me and his brother Timmy Tim used to hang out. Kenny Ken brought me to Boston Road where Theodore lived at the time and that's where I saw him doing the needle dropping."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who won that battle between The Crazy 8 and The K-Connection Crew?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"I couldn't really tell who won. We battled but nobody ever decided on who won the battle."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was DJ Afrika Little Khayan's role within the Crazy 8 Crew?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"He was my back-up DJ. He used to pick the records. He was the only person that was allowed to touch my records besides myself, you know what I'm saying? Him and Squirpy La Rock."

SIR NORIN RAD:"But you would also let him get on the turntables, right?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yeah, definetely! Matter of fact when I first met him  he was the only one. Then I started DJing. I was like,"Let me check this out!" He showed me how to do it just one time and I kept on doing it everyday. Playing with it, playing with it all the time, making beats. Then when Khayan saw that I had gotten real good he passed the number one spot over to me. That's when I became the number one DJ of the Crazy 8."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the relationship between Blacks and Puerto Ricans on your side of the Bronx like? Did they get along well?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"On my side they mostly got along well. I never had problems with nobody 'cause I'm actually dark-skinned. I'm copper red. I look like a copper penny. I never hung out with a huge bunch of Puerto Ricans. Besides the Crazy 8 I had another little crew of friends. Two of them were White and of them was Black."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your top 3 breakbeats back then?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"I always loved "Scratching" by the Magic Disco Machine. Then I also loved „Keep Your Distance“ by Babe Ruth. Another one I loved was "Frisco Disco" by The Eastside Connection. I had the colorful record...."

SIR NORIN RAD:"From your perspective.....Why was it so important back then to have a powerful sound system?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Because you always wanted to be the loudest person out there! I remember everybody used to love DJ Breakout's set. His bass was crazy and then DJ Mario came out with the Mcintosh and that shit was powerful, man! I'm talking about his amps. They were crazy!!! Then Breakout came out with the Phase Linear and those were crazy, too!!!! To be at a jam when those sound sytems were rocking that was the best! That's what everybody was striving for!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How important was it to have beats that no other DJ had?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"It was very important. That's why DJs would black out the titles of their records because they didn't want you to know them. The science is they don't want you to get the same records they got. They black the names out! Like I might have a certain record, a certain beat that I liked a lot and I don't want you to get it, so that's why I get the Magic Marker or the tape to black out the name. The DJs didn't want nobody to play the same beats as them. Forget it! It was always a competition!!! They didn't even want other DJs to know where to find those beats. Nothing. And nobody let other DJs touch their records unless they were in the same crew. That was a no-no. That's why they kept a rope around the DJ set. Nobody ever stepped over those ropes because everybody knew what would happen but if they had done it they would have had problems."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that it is accurate to maintain that in the beginning of Hiphop the DJ held the most important position in the culture?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"Yeah, and that's what's so crazy to me, you know? I remember back in the days the DJ was way more important than the MCee 'cause without the DJ no MC could have ever rapped on the mic. Nowadays it's all about the Rappers. The DJ ain't shit now. It seems like he's the lowest guy right now. The music industry changed everything. They don't even need a DJ anymore in what they call Hiphop nowadays. Back in my days the DJ was the head of everything. He was the captain of the ship!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give any shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

DJ AFRIKA ISSAC:"I want to give a shout out to DJ Mario (RIP), to DJ Afrika Bambaataa regardless to what his problems are, to Kool DJ Herc, DJ Breakout, Kool DJ AJ, Curt, Squirpy La Rock, Chipper Chip, the whole Crazy 8 crew."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I wanna shout out my crew the Intruders, Sureshot La Rock (Thanks for the flyers-you're the man!!!), Andre Wilson aka Lil Herc for making this interview possible (Thank you!!!! It's a dream come true!!!), Princess Teela (RIP)!"