Interview with MC Ducky Dee (The G-Force)

                                                Interview with MC Ducky Dee (The G-Force)

                                                  

MC Ducky Dee (The G-Force)

                            conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where were you born and raised?"

DUCKY DEE:"Harlem, New York.....born and raised. Born in Harlem Hospital, raised in the streets of Harlem, New York. Sugar Hill!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly in Harlem is the Sugar Hill section located?"

DUCKY DEE:"Actually, if I'm correct it might be like the end of Harlem. It might be actually where Harlem ends. I'm not 110 percent sure but I believe it's like the upper part of Harlem where it ends. You know, just before Washington Heights begins."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, and could you please tell me in which year were you born?"

DUCKY DEE:"1963."

SIR NORIN RAD:"In which year did you notice DJs setting up their equipment in the parks and playing that breakbeat sound for the very first time? How old were you when that happened?"

DUCKY DEE:"I was probably around 15. You know, there was a group called The Aquarius Sounds and those were like the first guys that I remember bringing out music but they weren't really like playing these breakbeats. It was just before Hiphop had hit the part of Harlem where I was living at. I believe it was a group called TPC.....The People's Choice....they were like the first ones to kinda bring out that music (the breakbeats) in the parks in our neighbourhood in Harlem...The Battlegrounds. The Bronx of course is where it originated and everything like that. I used to go to a place when I was 15.....in 1978....but it wasn't in the parks, it was actually a place in the Bronx called the Galaxy 2000. DJ Kool Herc used to play up there. So he actually was the first one to open my and my peoples' eyes up to that real Hiphop. It was in the Galaxy 2000....they said that club used to be called the Stafford's Place but by the time I got there it was called the Galaxy 2000. I was actually too young to be getting in there but my stepsister used to date one of the DJs and so she used to get me and my people up in there. Herc used to battle different Bronx DJs there like The L-Brothers, DJ Casanova Fly...... It was a beautiful time then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Wasn't the Galaxy 2000 close to University Avenue?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yes, sir! It was right on University Avenue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you find out about the Galaxy 2000 and Kool Herc? Did your stepsister tell you about these things?"

DUCKY DEE:"Right. So my pops was dating her moms. So I used to go over there on the weekends. I used to go from Harlem to the Bronx every weekend and my stepsister used to date one of Kool Herc's DJs named Black Jack. So I went there with her once and I never stopped going so even if I wasn't gonna go over to the Bronx that weekend I had to go anyway because I had to get up into the Galaxy 2000 to see who Kool Herc was battling or you know just to hear him because I was actually real cool with one of his MCs.....MC Labrue...that was my man! He was a good brother because you know I was just a young cat that loved Hiphop, that used to just come in there to listen to the music and he embraced me. He used to let me sit in there with him while he rocked the mic and everything 'cause they used to kinda rock in this room. They would set the speakers outside the room in the club but they would actually sit like in a room. So when you was coming up in New York at that time word of mouth was everything. So people would tell you like, "Yo! I heard so and so is gonna be jamming over here! I heard so and so is gonna be jamming over there!" So you would make your way around Harlem or the Bronx to see it. Maybe you might even have a boombox where you could record the joint. You know get close to the speaker and record the jam, you know? So when you went back to the block you not only had proof that you was there but now you got a tape that everybody wants and you can make copies and sell them for 5$ a pop, you know? So it was a beautiful time but you also had to have some balls about you because you never knew what would happen when you stepped outside your neighbourhood or stepped outside your borough. But I loved Hiphop so much, you know what I'm saying, that I had to have it and the people I was with also had to have it so yeah! " 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of impression did attending Kool DJ Herc's parties leave upon you? Was Imperial JC already with him at that time?"

DUCKY DEE:"I don't remember Imperial JC. I remember Clark Kent, Black Jack and Herc and I believe the MCs was Labrue and Pebblee Poo and I'm not sure if they had anybody else but I remember those two. So anyway me and my brother who started the crew G-Force.....Supreme Master Wayne Gee...I took him up there with me one weekend and we went up there and partied. We had a good time and he caught that bug like me. Now we all had the bug already but that's when he caught the bug that made him say, "I wanna do this! We're going to do this!" So we ended up going back to Harlem and it was like, "Okay, we're gonna do our own thing!" And that's how we started G-Force but that's what gave Supreme Master Wayne Gee the idea, "Yo, I wanna start a crew! I wanna play music! This is what I wanna do!" And he was my big brother so I always followed what he did. He took care of me."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was DJ Wayne Gee your blood brother?"

DUCKY DEE:"No, actually he's not blood related but he's my real brother. Something that I learnt growing up is that you gonna have people that are blood but don't treat you like blood but you gonna have people that's not blood that are closer to you than your own blood. We've known each other since we were little kids. We grew up together and at one point his people took me in and adopted me. He's not my blood brother but that's my real brother."  

DJ Wayne Gee - Founder of the G-Force Crew

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of dances were done at those Herc parties back in 1978?"

DUCKY DEE:"That's a good question! (laughs) I believe the Freak might have been the first Hiphop dance that I can remember and then the Spank followed and all that stuff but I definitely remember the Freak and the Spank being the first two dances at Hiphop Jams."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did the music there make you feel like ?"

DUCKY DEE:"Like I said we had people that brought music out in the park just before Hiphop had exploded. So of course you know they had the big speakers and everything like that but when you went to the Galaxy 2000 and you heard Kool Herc....and I remember this like it was yesterday....he would get on the mic and the first thing he would say before every jam was, "All systems go!!!!" on the echo chamber. So when he said that it would sound like, "All systems go go go go!" And then he would play just a regular  record, you know what I'm saying? Not even a beat or anything like that, just a regular record to get the party started but them speakers would be bumping!!! Yeah man, it was something!! It was something!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did DJ Black Jack assist you and your brother in any way to get your crew started? Like telling you which speakers and amps to get?"

DUCKY DEE:"Nah!!!! (laughs) Actually, me and dude ain't really clicked. I can't tell you too much about dude it's just that he was the DJ and he used to rock with my sister but me and him ain't really.....I mean me and him we didn't have no beef or nothing like that but I can't sit here and tell you that we was kool. Like I said Labrue was the one who embraced me. That was my man. Whatever we did as far as getting that crew together,  we did that! It was Supreme Master Wayne Gee, it was a guy that we went to school with....G-Man. He got Wayne Gee started out on the turntables. Actually, where the name G-Force came from was G-Man because one of the cats that used to rock with us....Rock City Ram.......we was at a house party, not even like a jam...we was at a house party and Rock City Ram was there and he just said, "Yo G-Man and the Mighty G-Force!" and when he said that, that name G-Force just stuck. So that's actually where we got the name from...from G-Man. We basically didn't have any equipment but we built it over the years like I remember doing somebody's house party with two stereos.....you know, not even like a real mixer or nothing like that...just turn it down on this one here and then turn it down on this one here (laughs..). Like that! That's how bad we wanted to do it until we came into our own. You know, building equipment, getting our own stuff and becoming somebody that was known."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that MC Labrue inspired you to become an MC?"

DUCKY DEE:"You know what? Yeah, because he's like the first one that I remember and everything like that... so yeah. At that time everybody wanted to be.... in some part, form, fashion..a part of Hiphop. Whether you wanted to be an MC, whether you wanted to be a DJ or whatever, whatever. So yeah I would say MC Labrue was a big reason why I wanted to be an MC."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Judging from the various G-Force flyers I have come across so far it seems to me that your crew went through several different phases. Like you obviously had different MC line-ups over the time and even different DJs. Do you recall DJ Money Gee?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, man! Money Gee is one of the original members! When we was doing our thing..you know, when we started blowing up with the music and everything like that...we used to rock at a spot called The Show Place right down the block from where we grew up. So we had three DJs: G-Man, Wayne Gee and Money Gee. We started out with The Shining Star MCs, then we went to The Galaxy Four and then we went to the Jazzy Two which became like the permanent MCs for the G-Force. That was me and my brother the Love Sweet Vee."

September 15th, 1979: The G-Force performs at the Show Place in Harlem along with DJ Master Don & The Death Committee

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Apparently, one of your MCs that rocked with you when you were still the Shining Star MCs later on jumped ship and joined DJ Master Don & The Death Committee. I'm talking about MC Boo Ski. How did that come about and how did you feel about that move at the time?"

DUCKY DEE:"Boo Ski was from the neighbourhood. He didn't grow up with us but he was somebody who's moved to the neighbourhood. Now understand Boo Ski has a lot of brothers. So one of those brothers is Gangster Gee who ended up being one of Master Don's MCs. That's actually Boo Ski's little brother. But anyway getting back to Boo Ski.....when he left no we didn't take it good because it wasn't done with good taste. It wasn't done like, "Hey, I wanna get down with them." It was like all of a sudden we're getting word that one of our best MCs is jumping ship. So nah that didn't go good So we kinda chased him outta there behind that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yes, I have heard that the G-Force was also notorius for beating up cats. What's your take on that?"

DUCKY DEE:"As far as G-Force being like that....so what happens is back in New York you could play music out in the parks but you also had to enforce what you were doing because you might have people come out there who wanna start fights or whatever, whatever or just disrespect what you're doing or disrespect your crew. So what happened was, we did both! We did both and eventually we left the music side to go to that side. When we were just on some crew stuff, you know?? Going around, busting up heads and all that.....So we started out with the music but ended up with the ass whipping."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when did the ass whipping become your priority? In the 1980s?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, I would say in the early 1980s."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who came up with the name "The Shining Star MCs"?

DUCKY DEE:"I believe that's a name that my man Rob Gee (another original G-Force MC) came up with. The Shining Star!!! It was me, Rob Gee, Boo Ski and Tony Dee. Rob Gee left us also and he ended up rocking with RC La Rock. He took that name Shining Stars MCs with him when he left us. Big shoutouts to RC La Rock! One of the greatest MCs ever!! Rob Gee got down with him and another guy. Damn, I can't remember his name..."

SIR NORIN RAD:"DJ Chevy Chev."

DUCKY DEE:" DJ Chevy Chev!! My man, you are correct! Rob Gee and RC La Rock ended up rocking with DJ Chevy Chev who had a pretty good name for himself back then. I think the Galaxy Four..if I'm correct... was something that I came up with because I was trying to keep the format of the G-Force, you know what I'm saying? The guy who used to do our flyers which was this cat named Mike....Mike used to do our flyers and I used to tell him the ideas of how I wanted them done and everything like that and he would hook them up like that."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how the Shining Star MCs were formed!"

DUCKY DEE:"I can tell you nine times out of ten it was Wayne Gee. Wayne Gee was always the one that put everything together and he was the one that would always... like if I would bring somebody around and tell him,"Yo, my man can rock!" he would be like,"Let me hear him. I might put him down." So Tony Dee lived on the other end of the block. So Tony Dee was down. Boo Ski as well. Rob Gee was somebody I brought from JFK....from my school...that everybody was like, "Yo, that dude is nice!!" Rob was that dude on the mic, you know? So Rob got down. So that's how that goes."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you find out about Rob Gee's exceptional MCing skills? Were there rhyming sessions in the cafeteria of JFK High School back then where you you would see him rocking on the mic?"

DUCKY DEE:"I don't remember doing that. I saw that being done in Martin Luther King (a high school in Harlem) with the Fearless Four. I saw them rocking in the cafeteria in Martin Luther King. So with Rob Gee..that's just the thing that somebody might say, "Ey, yo! You MC, right? Yo, my man knows how to MC, too." So you'd be like, "Word? Let me hear him!" So that's how that used to go. It wasn't like the cafeteria thing, it was just word of mouth. Like you could be in the back of the train, you could be anywhere, you know what I'm saying? If you are who you say you are....nah, do that right here right now!!  You'd be on the corner, "Word? You rap? Let me hear it!" Or MC 'cause it wasn't about no rap, it was MC." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you had basically heard about his reputation as an MC, got to check out his skills and found them good enough to ask Rob Gee to join your crew?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, something like that." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that the Shining Star MCs lasted from 1978 till early 1980 when Boo Ski left you for DJ Master Don & The Death Committee Crew?"

DUCKY DEE:" Probably so because I would say that Rob Gee and Boo Ski almost left at the same time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So how did your crew receive the news that Rob Gee wanted to leave you and join DJ Chevy Chev and RC La Rock? Did you feel as disrespected as you did when Boo Ski left for Master Don or was there a difference?"

DUCKY DEE:"It was disappointment but it was done right. It wasn't done like we gotta hear it from somebody else. Everybody knew how we got down. You didn't wanna cross us. So both of them were like family but at the same time one thing that you don't accept is disrespect. Boo Ski left us in a disrespectful way and that's why it went down like it went down. Rob Gee did it like it was supposed to be done. He came to us like a man and he told us that that's what he wanted to do. So he got Wayne Gee's blessings. I have to provide some clarification though about Boo Ski leaving. Him and Master Don eventually got Wayne Gee's blessings to join the Death Committee but certain crew members didn't know and stepped to him. Master Don wouldn't have dared to bring Boo Ski into his crew without Wayne's ok because we protected Don many times. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did the Shining Star MCs meet in order to rehearse? At Wayne Gee's house?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, at Wayne Gee's house. Nine times out of ten at Wayne Gee's house."

December 22nd,1979: The G-Force performs at the Show Place in Harlem along with DJ Master Don & The Death Committee

SIR NORIN RAD:"You mentioned that Kool Herc's MCs didn't do routines when you saw them performing at the Galaxy 2000...."

DUCKY DEE:"No, they just had their slot times."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Ok, so what about the Shining Star MCs? Did you do any routines?"

DUCKY DEE:"No, we didn't have routines. Nah, I don't even know if MCs was really doing routines that early in the game. I remember like maybe a year or so later you started hearing like The Furious Five or the Cold Crush Brothers. No, you just passed the mic. You just  said your rhyme, you know? And then you'd be like, "Tony Dee it's on you! So what you gonna do?!" You know, you just passed the mic off." That's the way it was done back then. I didn't start doing routines until we was the Jazzy Two. Me and the Love Sweet Vee."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Out here in Germany many cats wonder what that phrase "passing the mic" really referred to. Some have asked me whether crews initially had just one microphone when they were rocking in the parks back then which therefore had to be shared by all of the crew's members."

DUCKY DEE:" (laughs) No, no.....(laughs). You had several mics! I mean maybe sometimes you did have a night where the mic wasn't working or you didn't have enough mics but even when everybody had their own mics passing the mic just meant, "Okay, I have finished my rhyme. I'm passing it off to you." So you would say something like, "I'm finished on the mic...go ahead Rob Gee to the ladies's delight!" That was passing the mic."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Like Mele Mel would say to Rahiem, "A 7-6-5-4-3-2-1....Come on, Rahiem! Come and get some!" 

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah....That group is the greatest MC group of all time!!! I knew Grandmaster Caz, I knew J-DL from the Cold Crush Brothers and I knew Prince Whippper Whip from The Fantastic Five, right? So when you talk to them.... because those are the top groups.....The Furious Five, The Cold Crush Brothers and The Fantastic Romantic Five MCs. Those are the top groups. So whenever you ask somebody of The Fantastic Five or The Cold Crush Brothers, "Who was the number one group?" They'll say, "The Furious Five!" So everybody had that respect for Mele Mel and them."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"The legendary MC Barry Bee of the Mean Machine Crew told me that before he had even started MCing he used to chill outside with his friends drinking Grape Soda and eating pumpkin seeds while listening to the tapes of the Funky Four with Sha Rock. Did you also get your hands on these tapes back in the days?

DUCKY DEE:"Oh yeah!! Oh yeah!! (excited) We got our hands on tapes like that all the time! That was a big thing back then, you know? Back then when you had tapes like that of the Cold Crush Brothers vs. The Fantastic Five......you would get some weed and everybody would sit around and listen to them joints there. That was the thing back then. You would have people bothering you that wanted to hear those tapes. You'd be like, "Yo man, go get us some weed, man, and I let you listen to that Cold Crush Brothers tape." (They'd be like)"Word?" "Yeah, man!""

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were those tapes something that inspired to improve your rhyming skills as an MC?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, because you gotta be a real special MC to not borrow from other people. Coming up....when I started MCing I used to go to the Bronx and get rhymes from up there and bring them back to Harlem 'cause I had no rhymes of my own back then. So as long as I knew that wouldn't bite me in the ass ....because not everybody was going up to the Bronx to them jams to hear that... I would go there and add rhymes to my repertoire.  Shit, I might even have gotten some Labrue joints!  You know, until  I started writing (ryhmes) and really getting into my own." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the process through which you would come up with new rhymes! Would you write your rhymes in your crib alone or would you be doing that along with the other MCs of the G-Force at DJ Wayne Gee's house?"

DUCKY DEE:"So when this all started I was staying with Wayne Gee. His moms had took me in, right? So I was staying with Wayne Gee so he could be practicing DJing and I'm on the side writing rhymes and the more I wrote the better I got. You know, you sit there and rhymes pop up in your head out of somewhere. So you'd be like,"Hold on! Let me write that down!"Or you would hear something and you'd be like, "That's a fly word! Let me see if I can make that into a rhyme!" So there's a whole bunch of things that inspire you to write something. To me rhymes could come from anywhere."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would also take measures to enlarge your vocabulary?"

DUCKY DEE:"Nah. I'm not saying that that's not a good idea but I just didn't. You know, you're getting motivated by hearing  somebody that's just awesome. Like, "Yo!!! Oh my God! This guy is a beast on the mic and I gotta step my game up!" If you got any type of dignity or pride about yourself yeah you'll hear somebody that makes you say,"Damn!!  Nah, I ain't ready yet. I need to get back to the drawing board." And then to be perfectly honest when Rob Gee and Boo Ski were down with us they were my motivation to get better because those cats were really that good. They were really that good! So knowing that we got a party to do Friday night and I gotta be on stage with these cats??? So I was like, "Yeah, I gotta get my shit together!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that the Battlegrounds was like your main stomping ground as far as rocking parties outside is concerned?"

DUCKY DEE:"Oh yeah! Most definitely!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which other outdoor spots did you rock at?"

DUCKY DEE:"We did the Battlegrounds and we did 28 Park which was like a few blocks up....a schoolyard. The Battlegrounds is just a regular park, you know, where we all came up playing basketball in. It's up the block from up where we grew up. 28 was the elementary school we all went to so we would also jam in there. So those were our two places.....including the Show Place which was the club we used to rock in." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of location was the Show Place?"

DUCKY DEE:"That was a night spot up the block from us but they had this big open space on the top that they let us use to play Hiphop in. So the Show Place was like our spot and they actually used to have nude dancing in there, so sometimes I used to sneak down there in the middle of a party to go sneak a peak (laughs)."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with DJ Master Don & The Death Committee like? Were they from the same area as you guys? "

DUCKY DEE:"No, they're from Harlem but they're from a place we call "The Valley" and they called us "The Hill" because they was downhill and we was up the hill. So they called us "Hillbillies" and we called them "The Valley Boys." Not particularly the Death Committee and not particularly the G-Force but just people from those areas. So Wayne Gee used to date one of Master Don's sisters. That's how we got down with Master Don....I mean not really getting down with him but doing parties together but then we actually made it possible for a lot of people to survive out there. We protected Master Don because....God bless the dead....he wasn't really liked. You know, Master Don was a hell of a DJ! Oh my God, he was a beast! He was a beast but he was also.....I don't wanna use the word conceited but he was very confident."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yes, I read about that in many of Troy L. Smith's interviews....."

DUCKY DEE:"See, here's the problem with that...you can't do that and not be about that life. Now you can be the nicest DJ and all that but there's a lot of people in New York that's gonna come to you and gonna say to you,"How good is your knuckle game? Yeah, you can DJ and all that but what's your knuckle game about? Cause I don't like the way you carry yourself..." That's the honest to God truth! In New York.... if you carry yourself like that then you better be about that life." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I hear you."

DUCKY DEE:"So, here's a true story.....he was having a battle in a gym and tearing the other DJ out the frame but the other DJ still robbed him and took all his stuff!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn!"

DUCKY DEE:"See, the other DJ...he's my man, too...but I'm not gonna put his name out like that...(laughs)....I still keep in touch with him....his people took all of Don's shit and walked up out of there. The moral of the story is...yeah, you won the battle but you lost the war!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What truly fascinates me about the DJing and MCing of the late 1970s and early 1980s is the fact that it focussed on live shows and you therefore had to present the crowd with an outstanding performance or they would let you know that you sucked right away. No chance to redo anything unlike today where it's all about recording songs and you got ample time at your disposal in the studio."

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, you got booed out your own park if your shit ain't correct! So let me tell you a funny story...when I first started MCing I was very shy. So I actually rocked with my back to the crowd. So I'm rocking and all the girls are going like, "Tell him to turn around!" And Wayne Gee was like"Yo kid, turn around! They wanna see you!" So I had to get over that because I had never been in that condition! I didn't know I was shy and all of that until I'm like,"Oh shit! All these people are looking at me!" You had to come correct!! So luckily I came correct and was able to turn around and face the crowd 'cause they liked what they heard but they also wanted to see me rocking as well."

December 31st, 1979: The G-Force performs at the Audobon Ballroom in Harlem

SIR NORIN RAD:"So MCing was also about impressing and rocking the crowd visually? Like doing choreographies and stuff like that?"

DUCKY DEE:" Yeah, but that came down the road. Down the road you put on a full-blown show. In the very beginning you just wanted to hear some fly shit. That's all. It wasn't rocket science, it wasn't that serious...it was like, "Yo, I just wanna hear some fly shit!" But then as time went on people started taking the game to a new level. You know, them Furious Five, them Cold Crush Brothers, them Fantastic Five. They were really putting on a show!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I heard the same thing about DJ Master Don & The Death Committee.....like that there are tapes of them performing at Harlem World where they would stop rapping for a moment and do something on stage that had the crowd going crazy."

DUCKY DEE:"They would go, "Ooooooooooh!" Right! You'd be like, "I can't see it but they must have did something outside of that rhyming." Yeah, because what it is .....somebody always gonna set the bar higher and you gotta meet it. You can't just keep doing the same old shit, the bar's been set higher." So all of a sudden you go to a show and these MCs are singing and dancing, you know what I'm saying???!!! Oh boy, here we go! (excited) Now we gotta get some steps in and so forth and so on."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you add Scotty Dee and Love Sweet Vee to your crew roster after Boo Ski and Rob Gee had left?"

DUCKY DEE:"Well, Scotty Dee was from the neighbourhood. He was from up the block. Sweet Vee was somebody who started running with us and we found out he could rhyme and what's crazy about that is that when it was all said and done Wayne Gee was like, "Yo, I want it to be you and Sweet Vee!" And I wasn't crazy about the idea at the time that me and this guy was about to become a duet. But then later on we would give a lot of guys the bussiness back then. We were all that but we also became brothers and that's my brother to this day. Wayne Gee always had this eye even when everybody else was like, "Yo, what is he doing?" Like he gave Rob Base and E-Z Rock time in Trinity Church for them to get exposure. We used to go to outside jams in the parks and everything like that and Doug E Fresh would be down there and nobody would let him rock. Like he wasn't with a crew or anything like that, he would just go and ask, "Hey, can I rock?" And people used to not want him to rock because he was so good. Once you let Doug E on, people don't want him to get off. Now you carried all your heavy equipment to this park for you and your people to shine, now all of a sudden the park is telling you, "We just wanna hear Doug E. Fresh!" So we made it possible for a lot of cats to rock."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were Scotty Dee and Sweet Vee able to fill in the gap left by Rob Gee and Boo Ski?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, because even though those guys were good but we had chemistry, you know what I'm saying? When we had Rob Gee and Boo Ski...they were great but it was like every man for himself. There was no chemistry. When Scotty Dee and Sweet Vee joined us it was chemistry and that's what Wayne Gee saw,"Oh, these guys are more together!" When it was the Shining Star MCs it was every man for himself. Plain and simple! Rob Gee and Boo Ski knew they were the alpha males...so it was more like a competition or maybe even an interview for somebody else to see them and say, "I want you to get down with me!"

April 19th, 1980: The G-Force performs at the Show Place

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of advice would you give to the young cats of today that may want to resurrect the original live MCing as it was done in the parks back then? You know, forming a MC crew and rocking with a DJ that spins breakbeats..... "

DUCKY DEE:"If you're trying to build up a crew it's about chemistry and when I say that I mean you gotta want the same thing. It's got to be about the crew more than anything. It can't be about you and what you wanna do. It's like a great company, you know what I'm saying? It's about the company. Not only do you have to know your rhymes and your style but you got to know your peoples' style and rhymes just like they're your own. You gotta know everybody even your DJ like second nature. I'll never forget we had a battle at  a place called the Ponderosa which was on 8th Avenue.... between 145th and 146th street .....an MC battle...100$ prize. So now we're talking about the early 1980s. 100$ was a lot of money back then. I would usually write the routines for Sweet Vee and me, right? So we practiced the routine, we got it down pat. We got this mean routine that we gonna put on these cats at this battle!! Written just for the battle! Written just for the battle! We didn't have any equipment at the time because we had had a run in with the Ballbusters and had lost our equipment." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn!""

DUCKY DEE:"Yup, got into a big joint with them and had to leave our equipment. So Wayne Gee came up to the house and said to us,"Let me hear what y'all got!" And we did it. So we were like, "Yo, what you gonna play?" He said, "Don't worry about it! I got it!" So we were like,"Okay!" because we trusted him. So anyway....jam comes. We have no idea what Wayne is gonna play and I kid you not we told him how our intro was gonna go and when he would come in with the music. And he played The Honey Drippers.......Ladies and Gentlemen.....you know what I'm saying?"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Impeach The President!"

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, and when he put that on the crowd went crazy!!! Now to me it was a nice beat but I would never think that it would get that type of response! If he would have told me that he was gonna play that I might even have been like, "Aaaah....Really?!?! That's what you gonna play? Aight." But when he put that on, the crowd went crazy like it was the best Hiphop beat they ever heard. And I was like, "Wow!! Okay...", you know?? And we rocked and we won that battle. So the advice is that you gotta know each other and you gotta practice. It's gotta be like a second job. When it's time to practice you gotta practice! No bullshit!!! Ain't no, "Oh man I was supposed to hang out with my girl! " Or this that and the other. Nah!!!! It's time to practice, you know what I'm saying? So back then it was all about being the best. Even if you knew you wasn't the best but you know what? I wanna be right! I wanna be right up there with them! I want when they come through and look, I want them to say,"I like them, man! They tight!" You want them to acknowledge you." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Since you're stressing the importance of practicing I would like to ask you how often you did  you meet up back then in order to rehearse?"

DUCKY DEE:"I think it was more than once a week. I don't remember exactly but I know it was more than once a week. Once we got our equipment together and we had a place to practice we practiced. We never had no problems of being there for practice. So it was just mandatory. It was mandatory! There was no ifs ands or buts about it because it took place at a time to not inconvenience anyone. You know, you talk it out, "This is good for me!" "Okay, so we're having practice at such and such!" And that's the way we did it. I would like to say we practiced at least twice a week. At least!! Especially when were getting ready to have a jam or a battle. That takes precedence over everything."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did MCs dress in your era?"

DUCKY DEE:"Well, we did have the sweatshirts with our crew name on it. That was big. And you know when it first came out...I think Pumas were the big shoes back then. You had your Clyde Pumas on with your sweatshirt with your crew on it. You had your Lee Dungaree on....so yeah you was fly. It wasn't like you was pimped out or nothing like that because, you know, you was kinda rugged. You had your jeans on, you had your sneakers on, you might have your name belt on and stuff like that. You might even have a Kangol with some Cazals on. So those were like the big things back then as far as clothes....you know B-Boy clothes."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the role which Tony Dee had within your squad when he was MCing with you as a part of The Shining Star MCs and then later of the Galaxy Four!"

DUCKY DEE:"He was....and I'm not trying to be funny...he was like sexual chocolate. He was like that fly dark skin brother when light skin brothers was getting all the play. And his style...he kinda had a Bronx style to him. So when Wayne Gee heard him he fell in love with the way Tony Dee rocked. So Tony had that fly guy rap which was real good back then. He was a hell of a MC, he was like the ladies delight, you know what I'm saying? Sexual chocolate!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about your man Sweet Vee. What kind of an MC was he?"

DUCKY DEE:"Sweet Vee was another ladies' MC. He was the most compatible MC with me, you know what I'm saying? And he was also a real good MC. He was the Love Sweet Vee and the ladies loved him. He had nice rhymes and he could back it up. You know, it's always good when you can rhyme and you can throw them hands, too. You gotta understand if there's a lot of ladies in the crowd and they say, "Oh my god! He's cute!" "Oh my god! He can rhyme!" There's always gonna be haters. So if you're not about that life you wil have somebody saying, "Yo fuck that punk! I punch him in the face!!" You know what I'm saying? So it's always good to let people know that you can rap and throw them hands, too."

MC Love Sweet Vee (The G-Force)

SIR NORIN RAD:"So why did Tony Dee an Scotty Dee eventually have to leave you?"

DUCKY DEE:"I don't know, I think that was just Wayne Gee 'cause you know what? I just remember one night we was going to practice and Wayne Gee was telling me like,"Yo, I want you to rock with Sweet Vee!" Now we had rocked together and all that but as a group. For some reason Wayne Gee was like, "I just want you two!"And I was kinda like, "Where you getting this idea from?" I wasn't crazy about it... to be honest. You know, but Wayne Gee had that eye for that! And sure enough this shit turned out to be great!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did that transition from the Galaxy Four to the Jazzy Two take place? Was that in 1981 or 1982?"

DUCKY DEE:"It probably was around that time. I'm perfectly honest I don't remember to be sure but I would say around that time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the role of DJ G-Man and DJ Money G within your crew? Like when would they be playing and what kind of music did they play?"

DUCKY DEE:"Let me tell you how it went down and I'm glad you brought that up.....So when we did parties G-Man would start off the parties by playing Disco 'cause this was the Disco era back then, right? G-Man would get the party going...like I'll never forget I heard G-Man one day and he was playing Prince and the joint came on at the beginning and he was like, "Yo, I want everybody in here to go to the bar 'cause I gonna buy everybody a drink but check this out! Before you get to the bar there's just one thing I need you to know before you get there...." And then Prince would go,"I ain't got no money!!!!" (The name of track is "I Wanna Be Your Lover". It came out in 1979)  and the crowd was like, "Oooooh!" I'll never forget that and I tell him about this joint to this day!! So that's the kind of DJ G-Man was. G-Man was the one who played that type of music to get the crowd going. Wayne Gee came on and he played music for us, the MCs. He was cutting for the MCs. Money Gee was like the exhibitionist like how Master Don could cut with one hand backwards on the up and down fader and all that. That was Money Gee!!!! Money Gee was the cat that if somebody was like, "Yo, you know I got this DJ, he can do XYZ!" That was Money Gee's job....."Yo take him out!" You know what I'm saying? "Oh, that's what y'all got? We got somebody for that!" Money Gee could do all the tricks on the turntables and Money Gee was a baby by the way back then. Money Gee used to go to sleep at the jams and we would have to wake him up at the end to do his thing! Yeah, he was a baby! I mean we were all young but even though he was bigger than probably all of us, he was the youngest, he was a baby." 

DJ G-Man (The G-Force)

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your top 5 beats to rock to back then when you were jamming in the parks, the gyms, the clubs etc.?"

DUCKY DEE:"Okay, definitely T-Ski Valley "Catch The Beat"................................ "

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about "Funky Drummer" by James Brown?" 

DUCKY DEE:"That was alright but you had to rhyme real fast. I'm just talking about joints that I ain't gotta rush and you could hear what I'm saying. So like "Outstanding" by The Gap Band, you know what I'm saying? Yeah! What else? It's been so long........"Take Me To The Mardi Gras" by Bob James and "The Son Of Scorpio" by Dennis Coffey." Those joints were good, too, but....you know...back then it was primarily about what we were saying on the mic, not about that beat that you're hearing. Today it's like totally the opposite. It's like, "Oh, that's a great beat and this guy can fucking just say about anything!" Back then....yeah beats were tight but motherfuckers wanted to really know what you're saying. You couldn't hide behind a beat back then!! YOU COULDN'T HIDE BEHIND A BEAT!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"It seems to me that the beats back then also posed a much bigger challenge to the MCs as their sound was much rougher and they weren't taylor made like today. "

DUCKY DEE:"Right. Yeah, I remember like putting a whole bunch of change on top of the needle, you know what I'm saying? I remember marking up the record with a marker or a tape to help you find where the beat was. I remember all those tricks even though I wasn't a DJ but you know that stuff when you're around it so long. So like you said things were much more complicated, it wasn't as easy. Everything took like real skill. They call it Rap now and that's pretty much the truth because I'm from the Hiphop Era. Things were totally different back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the other crews from the Sugar Hill section like The People's Choice and The Mighty Gestapo Crew?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yeah, we're all from the same area. So like I said TPC was the first Hiphop group to come out in the Battlegrounds. Now the Gestapo Crew....now we're from St. Nicholas....TPC was from right up the block from us on 152nd Street...right the same block as The Battlegrounds and The Gestapo Crew was further down by Riverside. Count Dee and them. God bless the Dead....Count Dee passed away a couple of years ago. He was a real good brother. Shout outs to the Gestapo Crew! They also had connections with Whipper Whip and Dot-A-Rock. So we're all from the same area and everything like that but I will go on the record saying G-Force has always been number one and always will be! (laughs)."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you ever battle TPC or The Gestapo Crew?"

DUCKY DEE:"I don't really remember us ever battling them. I know we were supposed to, I know a lot of shit was talked and everything like that but we didn't get to battle TPC or Gestapo. I know Gestapo and TPC battled each other and to be perfectly honest, I thought the Gestapo Crew cheated because they had Whipper Whip and Dot-A-Rock who were Fantastic Five, they weren't Gestapo Crew. To me it was like you're playing Peewee Football  and you bring in two grown men to play. Because at that point none of us was in the realm of Whipper Whip and Dot-A-Rock. These cats were on Mount Rushmore back then!" 

September 18th, 1982: The G-Force performs at the  Pac Jam Throwdown in Harlem along with Doug E. Fresh and others

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"In closing I would like to ask you about two individuals and their specific ties to the Almighty G-Force namely DJ Jazz E aka DJ Jazzemoto (RIP) and MC Missy Dee. How were they related to you?"

DUCKY DEE:"Missy Dee is from the neighbourhood. She is our little sister and she's the official female MC of the G-Force Crew. DJ Jazzemoto was one of Wayne Gee's proteges, he was also from the neighbourhood.  Let me tell you something about Jazzemoto.......one, let me just start off by saying, "God bless him!" but Jazzemoto might be the most talented person musically that I ever met. He could DJ, he could sing and he could rap!!! Jazzemoto...Eric Williams.....big ups to him. Rest in Peace!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give any shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

DUCKY DEE:"Yes, I would. I'd like to give a shoutout to Supreme Master Wayne Gee! I'd love to give a shoutout to Love Sweet Vee! Shoutouts to our warlord Bambu and Mr. Strong....may they rest peacefully! Shout outs to the rest of the Almighty G-Force Crew!  I'd love to give a shout out to my man Sugar Ray and Big Stan! Place Players in the place to be! And to my brothers from St. Nicholas Place the Jamie-O Crew and the Beeferoni Crew and last but not least I'd like to give a shoutout to someone very special to me out there in Düsseldorf, Germany...Martine Eugene.... That is the woman that forever will have my heart!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you! I want to give a shoutout to the Flybrarian Sureshot La Rock for all the crazy G-Force flyers he allowed me to use (good looking!)  and to the greatest Hiphop Historian of all times, Troy L. Smith, for inspiring me to start searching for The G-Force through his incredible interview with Boo Ski and Keith KC!"

Interview with B-Boy Jojo (The Rock Steady Crew)

                    Interview with B-Boy Jojo ( The Crazy Commanders / The Rock Steady Crew)

                                               

B-Boy Jojo (The Crazy Commanders / The Rock Steady Crew)

                                  conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Boogie Down Bronx are you originally?"

JOJO:"I grew up on the West Side of the Bronx which was on Tremont Avenue.......Tremont & Grand which where I lived at was upper Grand Avenue 'cause Grand Avenue and Davidson Avenue cut right through Tremont Avenue and they had a lower Grand Avenue and a upper Grand Avenue and I was living on the upper Grand Avenue. So it was on the West Side of the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were you also born in the Bronx?"

JOJO:"No, I was born in Manhattan.....Metropolitan Hospital...on 3rd Avenue there and I lived in Manhattan until 1970, that's when I moved up to the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which year were you born?"

JOJO:"1964."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where and when did you witness B-Boying for the first time?"

JOJO:"Okay, well let me just start off by starting how I even got into dancing and it will lead to  that, okay?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yes." 

JOJO:"It started when I was very young. My mother and my father got married and my father went to job corps. He became a welder and he came back to get his family which we were little kids at the time and he took us up to Boston, Massachusetts. We had a house and we lived there for about a year and then he died in a car accident. So my moms couldn't afford to keep the house so we had to move back to New York City. So when we moved back to New York City we really was out of a place. You know, we needed a place fast, we didn't know where.....and there was this Black lady....her name was Miss Vern Tucker.....she was a good friend of my grandmother for years and she offered to take us in and we lived with her for a few years until we got back on our feet  and she became my grandmother. So her family had parties and I can truly say that my flavour and my dance spirit and all that came from being at these house parties that they used to throw and we were a part of it.We were there at these parties that they used to throw at Christmas, Thanksgiving......we were also there at their birthday parties. And slowly but surely Miss Vern Tucker became my grandma, you know what I'm saying?  And her family became my cousins and that's where my flavour came from when I lived in Manhattan. I used to just dance, I used to just do steps on top  and they'd be like, "Go, Jojo! Go, Jojo!!" and actually she is the one that came up with the name Jojo. So that's where that came from. So finally we found a place in the Bronx and we moved up to the Bronx and that's where it all started for me. I lived there from 1970 till 1984. So while I lived there, there was a kid that lived in my building on Grand Avenue, his name was Mark. Black kid, he lived upstairs and I lived on the first floor. So one day I was at a jam... a DJ Whitehead jam (DJ of The Triple A Crew) at 82 Park...so I'm just chilling, hanging out and all of a sudden I see Mark and Mark is Breaking!!! And that was the first time I seen somebody do footwork, so I was like, "Holy crap!" You know, he was pretty good and I just looked at it and I went and I approached him. I said, "That's kinda nice! I like that!" And he's like, "Do you get down?" 'Cause that's what we called it back then.....we called it getting down. He said, "Do you get down?" I said, "Yeah, I get down!" He said, "Can you show me?" So I did some stuff that I just knew but he said, "That's not getting down! This is getting down!!" and so he went down and did these moves. I was flabbergasted when I first seen it, I was like, "Wow! I'm gonna really learn that!" So I went home and I practiced so the next time he would see me I actually had my footwork already. It was something for me to catch it and I caught it quick and it went from there.  I just kept on practicing and practicing Then I started noticing more B-Boys and witnessing more circles and that's when I was in Public School 26 on Burnside Avenue. After I left there I wasn't really dancing like in a crew or nothing like that. Then I moved to JHS 115 in the Bronx and that's when I really started exhibiting my style of dancing and all that because I got actually kinda good at it and then I used to come out at lunch time and there was always some B-Boys breaking. Like a circle and people would come out for lunch and watch and then everybody would go back in. So I ate B-Boys for lunch and that's how I met Aby (The Bronx Boys). You know, he used to come around and he always used to have somebody with him and there was always somebody dancing. DJ Cisco (Power Sounds) used to show up with his box and everybody used to be out there and that's probably when Aby witnessed me for the first time. So I remember one time he approached me and asked me.....this is what leads to that battle in the South Bronx in the Dungeon between Starchild La Rock and TDK (late 1978)....he asked me do I want to help TDK. So I was like, "Yeah, I'm down. Pick me up! I'll be waiting for you!" So I waited and waited and waited but he never showed up. At the time I was waiting I had gotten hold of Spy and Spy used to always like a challenge. I said, "Come on, we can go over there and get busy!" He said, "Alright!" I said,"Look, Aby never got a hold of me. I'm gonna walk, I'm pissed off. I'm gonna make my way out there." He said, "Alright, I'm gonna meet you out there! I'm gonna hitch the bus." That's what he did. So he hitched the bus over while I was walking. I walked down Arthur Avenue and I ran into Trac 2. I didn't know he was Trac 2 at the time. He was dressed like a B-Boy so I asked him, "Yo, you know where there's a B-Boy battle?" and he told me, "Yeah!" and then he asked me, "Why?" So I told him who I was and why I was going there and he said, "Yo, can I speak to you for a minute?" I was like, "Yeah." So he explained to me that it was just his group (Starchild La Rock) that was going against three other groups (TDK, TBB and Rockwell Association) and then he explained some more to me how they all wanted to take his crew out. So I said,"You know what? I'm kinda upset that this guy never picked me up." You know, I had nothing bad to say about Aby or nothing like that, that's just the way it was. Unfortunately, he told me to meet him and he just left me hanging. That kinda got me mad, so I  went on my own. That lead to me meeting Trac 2 and I told Trac 2, "You know what, I'm gonna help you out instead." He was like, "Really?" I said, "Yeah, and I got my boy Spy coming." None of these guys knew Spy until I brought him there. We were the only two CC Crew B-Boys there at that battle. We got there, as we were walking people wanted to know where that battle was.....actually we had a little crowd following us up on Tremont Avenue. We got to Belmont Avenue... made that right on to Belmont Avenue. Walked down the block, on the left hand side was the Dungeon. We got to the Dungeon, we got inside, you know, all of a sudden I saw Spy, so we met up with Spy. So we were all there, talking. Next thing you know I saw Aby and Batch on the other side. They were getting their guys together. All of a sudden Batch saw me, he stopped and said,"Yo, what the fuck are you doing over there?" Then Aby looked over to me and said,"Yo, Jojo! What's up? What you're doing over there?" And I said,"You know, man, you never came to get me so I'm gonna help them out." So I ended up helping Trac 2 and his crew. So we stayed on Trac 2's side and that's when that battle began. Trac's guys actually went out and battled and then when the good guys started to come out,  that's when me and Spy came out and got busy. At the end we ended up winning that battle and that was the history of that battle."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please elaborate on those B-Boy sessions that took place at JHS 115? Like where exactly did the dancing take place at and who were the DJs?"

JOJO:"The battles that I told you about when Aby came around and where I used to come out for lunch that was on the Morris Avenue side of JHS 115. But the DJing.....when they started DJing they took it to the front of the school which would be on the 181st side between Morris and Creston Avenue. They used to block off the top stairs there with tables. If you wasn't down you couldn't go back there and my man DJ Ray Ski used to DJ there all the time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Wizard Wiz (TDK) told me about DJ Ray Ski. He also used to DJ at the Aqueduct, right?"

JOJO:"Yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What exactly is the Aqueduct?"

JOJO:"It was just a little walkway that was like in between the buildings, between the blocks. It goes from Tremont by University Avenue.....that's where the Aqeduct begins..and it goes all the way down to almost 184th Street or a little further. It almost ends by Fordham Road I think. Like you can go from Fordham Road and walk the Aqueduct and it'll take you all the way down to University & Tremont. It would be a few blocks. Like if you took the train...you would take the train from 176th Street to Fordham Road. That's the length of the Aqueduct."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So where exactly would DJ Ray Ski set up his equipment there? Was there a park?"

JOJO:"There were certain areas over there where they had like little sockets 'cause all the lamps that lit up the Aqueduct had a little box on the bottom. They were screwed tight but you would unscrew it and there's an electrical socket in there. All you had to do was plug up and that was it. You got juice! They used to find those lamps, take the thing off, plug up, take your extension cord and set up everything. Set up their equipment and do it there."   

SIR NORIN RAD:"The 12 O'Clock Crew also used to hang out there, right?"

JOJO:"Exactly. Well, the 12 O'Clock Crew ran 183rd Street. They used to say, "What's the word? 183rd!" You know, the 12 O'Clock used to run that. Like we was also affiliated with them. We never had any beef 'cause they knew us and we knew them. They was like down the block. They were on 183rd Street, we were on 184th Street. We were kool. We'd see each other at the jams. They were more like stick-up kids. They never tried anything with us but they did their thing to get their money. That's just how it was back then. You really had to know the area, you had to know who to talk to. They could get you in a building, they could get you outside. It was just crazy."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let's go back for a minute to the time when you started out as a B-Boy. Your first B-Boy partner was a guy called Spiderweb, correct? Moreover, is it true that Jojo wasn't your first B-Boy name?"

JOJO:"No, my first name was Spiderman. It was Spiderman and Spiderweb. That was my partner."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you meet him and how long did you stay together as partners?"

JOJO:"He was in my class. We was in school together for three years....JHS 115. We became good friends and then when he found out that I could dance, you know, he started coming around and he just picked it up and I started teaching him and so he became my partner. Then his two brothers  got down....Freddy and Angel... and my brother (Easy Mike) met them and we formed a little team. That little team used to go over to the Herc jams on Sedgwick Avenue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's very interesting! You were featured in that documentary "The Freshest Kids" and you stated there something to the effect that you were actually already B-Boying when there were hardly any Puerto Ricans around doing that dance...."

JOJO:"That's exactly what I'm meaning. What I'm telling you now that's what I meant when I said that. We were the only Puerto Ricans that got busy. Now DJ Kool Tee and DJ Mr. Lee (early DJs from the West Bronx) used to give us our respect and say, "Check out the Puerto Rican B-Boys in the house! B-Boy Spiderman and B-Boy Spiderweb!" And we got busy and that was way back.  Back then there were a lot of Zulu B-Boys around. They sorta ran it back then. As for the Puerto Rican B-Boys we were just up and coming. You know, we were people who wanted to learn it and got good at it 'cause, you know, they say Puerto Ricans actually put B-Boys on their back. We're the ones that started the backspinning and all these kind of moves. As far as the footwork and the flip turns that they did....that came from the Black B-Boys."

DJ Kool Tee and DJ Mr. Lee rocking the Mount Vernon Boy's Club (Date: March 3rd, 1978)

 

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did DJ Kool Tee and DJ Mr. Lee throw their jams at?"

JOJO:"That was at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue. It was the same spot where Kool Herc used to rock. DJ Kool Tee would be DJing by the 1520 side and then Kool Herc would set up his equipment on the 1600 side. It was in between the buildings. One building was 1520, the other building was 1600. DJ Kool Tee and DJ Mr. Lee would set up their equipment and play till five and then Kool Herc would come out with the Herculoids. You know what they say about Kool Herc and The Herculoids, right? People used to think that The Herculoids were his crew but the Herculoids were his speakers. It was his shit that he brought out. That was the Herculoids!!! He used to come out and set up his soundsystem. We were like, "Damn!! Look at his speakers!!!" You know, his speakers were big! DJ Kool Tee had the small shit but his shit did enough for us to enjoy ourselves. Everybody that was outside enjoyed the music and then as soon as he started packing up his shit Kool Herc would be setting up. So we were like, "Let's go over there! Herc is setting up over there!" "Oh, there's another jam after this????" "Yeah!" "Oh, no doubt!" Go get some pizza, go chill out for a minute and then come back and they got the jam all set up. We were ready to go!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Before you participated in that battle of Starchild La Rock against TDK at the Dungeon you had joined Spy's crew which was called The Crazy Commanders. How did that come about?"

JOJO:"Okay, this is how it happened. I was a known B-Boy and Cisco was a known DJ.  He used to DJ at 82 Park, too, just like DJ Whitehead. It was either DJ Cisco and DJ Bucko or DJ Whitehead. They used to come out all the time. He was also sorta involved in B-Boying. He was always hanging out with B-Boys and he wanted them to do things for him as far as like, "Battle this one and battle that one!" And if you didn't he would get mad and that's what he did to me. He got upset 'cause I ended up being friends with Shorty Rock and Spy after we battled. I ended up joining their crew. He said, "Nah, don't join them!" I said, "I'm sorry, B, but I join them, I like them." So he was like, "Ah, fuck that!" So he got mad and he left and that was it. Other than that when I first met him Cisco was the one that came and he said, "There's a group up the block from you. They're the best of this area!" So I was like, "What? Who?" He said,"There's a group up there called The CC Crew." I said, "Where??" He said,"Right up there by Harrison Avenue!" They lived right up the block. He said, "Come on I want you to meet them!" So I grabbed my brother B-Boy Easy Mike and we went up there to meet them. So we got there and it was just like in those karate movies. We got there and there were guys the front of the building just sitting there and I said,"Excuse me, where can I find B-Boy Spot?" He said, "B-Boy Spot? There ain't no B-Boy Spot. You mean B-Boy Spy." I said, "Yeah!" He said, "Why?" I said, "Tell him B-Boy Jojo and B-Boy Easy Mike we're here! Tell him we come to battle!" So he runs upstairs. Me and Easy Mike we walk inside the building and we're standing there. The building as soon as you walked in..it was a long straight hallway about 12 feet wide and like 30 feet long from the elevator to the front door. So it was kinda wide for Breaking. On each side of the elevator there was a staircase, so you can go up there through the stairs or take the elevator. So what happened was they went and got Spy. All of a sudden you heard a ruckus, many people were coming down from both staircases. This reminded you of a karate movie how the two guys come to challenge the master.    It was just like that! Their people ran to this side, ran to the other side and Shorty Rock and Spy walked down like they were the masters. They walked right down and these cats were all lined up. I was standing there looking at Easy Mike, he was looking at me and then Spy goes, "Who're you??" I said,"I'm Jojo. This is my brother Easy Mike. What's good?" He said, "What do you want?" I said, "We come to battle!" He said, "Really?" I said, "Yeah! Box!" And we went in, we started battling.

Shorty Rock (The Crazy Commanders)

 

What happened was there were two styles colliding 'cause we sorta had the six-step but it was the tucked in, short version where you're like tucked in but you move real fast. They had the long six-step. It comes out where, you know, you stretch out a little while you're still doing those steps. That's the first time I seen that style. I remember practicing with Spy and he was trying to show me the chair freeze, the figure four. This is before I met Trac 2. Spy showed me how to put my leg over, I never knew about that. I remember having a hard time, I kept dropping and dropping until I finally got it how to twist my body, to have my body like stay in one spot but my leg to switch over to land on the other side. I learnt that from him. You know, he taught me that. Me and Spy became real good friends. I used to wake this guy up in the morning. I would come to his house, Spy used to be sleeping...I would come to the building, go to a side window in the hallway, go out to the fire escape, go up to the second floor, open up this ni**er's window and go right into his room and this ni**er would pop his head out of his blanket with all that fucking hair (laughs). I would be like,  "Hey, what's up!?!"  and we would sit there, maybe blaze a joint or something and talk for a minute. Then he would get up and that was it. A lot of times when I didn't go to school and we played hooky we would meet up to drink a 40. We were bugged out kids back then but that's what we did, you know what I'm saying? So I would pick him up and we would hang out and that's how we did it. So that's my association with the CC Crew. After a while the CC Crew diminished and they weren't doing anything no more and so Spy started meeting some of the other people. Like Jimmy Lee and them they were from my side of town. They were like from Macombs Road which was up the block from Grand Avenue and Featherbed Lane and that area. That's were G-Man and Sunkist Evie and Coco and all those people came from and Jimmy Lee was part of that group  and then Spy was on that side of town, too. So them, Spy and us were all on that side and we all became good friends and then we moved it from there to 184th Street..... Field Place. That's where we started hanging and that's where the Rock Steady Crew really got his birth at right there. That block is where we started hanging right there!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who won that battle between Easy Mike and you and the Crazy Commanders the in the hallway?"

JOJO:"It ended in a tie."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What comes to your mind when you think of Spy back in the 1970s? What was so special about him as a B-Boy and a human being in general?"

JOJO:"He had an aura around him. He was just outstanding as a dancer, you know? And he didn't really need to show off. He was a humble guy. Don't get the ni**er mad......don't get it twisted, he wasn't a punk, he'd whip a ni**er's ass in a minute but he was a humble dude when it came to dancing. If you came and needed help on behalf of dancing he would be willing to help. That's just how he was and he was just cool about it."

B-Boy Spy (The Crazy Commanders)

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did your brother Easy Mike get into B-Boying? Did he follow you because you are his older brother?"

JOJO:"I think my brother was a little bit ahead of me and he's my younger brother. What I mean by ahead of me..he was a little bit more out there. I think he was dancing before me.....to be honest.See my brother was more like....his strong point was comedy. He would serve you with funny shit. He was sorta like how The Ni**er Twins was. They did comedy in their dance and their routines. His routines were something like that, you know? So that's where his strong point was, making you look stupid on the dancefloor without doing a lot of power and spins and shit like that. So he went that way and I went totally the opposite. I went to like skills and style and finesse. That's why we were like two completely different B-Boys. When we were together it was a team effort. I had the styles, he had the comedy and you had to beat both of them in order to win."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you share a room in your house? Would you practice at home, too?"

JOJO:"Well, my house in the Bronx was the base for all of the practicing. I would practice right in my living room. We was like poor, you know? My moms worked a lot, you know just so we could have a good life. My moms was my mother and my father. She was both to me. When she went to work she used to leave at 6 o' clock in the morning and wouldn't be back till 6 o'clock in the night. So if I went to school and I got home at 3 o' clock I had three hours to practice before she got home. I had to make sure everybody was out of the house by the time she got there. So we practiced a lot in the house."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I think you once told me that your brother did not always go by the name of Easy Mike. What was he called before that?"

JOJO:"Big Boy Baretta."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did that name come from?"

JOJO:"Like I said he was very out there. So he changed his name a lot. Like when he wrote graffiti he wrote See 2. That was his graffiti name. And then when he was dancing it went from Big Boy Baretta to Easy Mike. Actually, when we met Spy he was still Big Boy Baretta and I was still Spiderman. We changed our names when we got older."

B-Boy Easy Mike and B-Boy Jojo

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were you a Writer back then, too?"

JOJO:"I really didn't do too much graffiti but when I did I wrote Maze 176."

SIR NORIN RAD:"It seems that in your era it was a common thing among B-Boys to get up even if it just meant to carry around a Uni-Wide or a Pilot marker and to tag up your name wherever you went."

JOJO:"Yeah, see this is the difference between today and my generation. My era...we did it all. I DJed, I MCed, I used to do graffiti, I used to dance. I was an all around B-Boy, that means I did it all."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"How old were you when you met Spy?"

JOJO:"13, 14. I was around that age."

SIR NORIN RAD:"If that's okay with you I would like to address a highly controversial topic now namely that of the inception of the Rock Steady Crew."

JOJO:"Yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let me start by telling you what I have been told so far about the creation of that very prestigious crew. I have been told that the Rock Steady Crew was started in late 1979, not in 1977. I have also been told that Jimmy Dee and Jimmy Lee who started out as TBB members went to Batch at that meeting in 1979 when he broke up the TBB Crew and told him that they wanted to started a new crew but at the same time continue the legacy of TBB. That's why they had on their brown sweatshirts which featured their names on the front and then at the bottom of the "Rock Steady Crew " in the back of the T-Shirt  it read "TBB". What is your take on that?"

JOJO:"As far as Rock Steady I don't wanna step on nobody's toes or say shit that ain't true but I don't remember that. Jimmy Dee and Jimmy Lee....I taught both of these cats how to dance! I'm not saying I taught them everything they know but the fundamentals came from me. The fundamentals how you got started and then you took it from there. I also remember vividly being in Jimmy Dee's room when we came up with the name "Rock Steady Crew", you know? 'Cause at that time we had a group called The Untouchable Four B-Boys and this was before Rock Steady, you know what I'm saying? There was other B-Boys that wanted to get down with the Untouchable Four but we couldn't do it 'cause see the name was The Untouchable Four, so it only had four members. The reason why I say this is because I remember the t-shirt that said "Untouchable" and then "4". That's like way back. Rock Steady came out of the Untouchable Four. Back then as far as leadership is concerned there wasn't nobody looked upon as the one leader of the Rock Steady Crew. I was still part of Rock Steady when Jimmy Lee got in trouble and he left and me and Jimmy Dee...we were considered the founders and we went to Lincoln Center (where the Rock Steady Crew battled the Dynamic Rockers in 1981). Why you think I was there? Why you think everybody was standing around me when they took a picture of us standing there? I have no problem with giving credit to TBB and I can't say that no TBB members became members of Rock Steady later on like Popeye. I remember Popeye, he got down with us but he came from TBB. But all this came from us hanging out on 184th Street. We were all friends. Those guys were from that area. They didn't come from TBB in the South Bronx, they came from Davidson Avenue, Burnside Avenue, Grand Avenue. They came from the West Side of the Bronx where I was from, you know what I'm saying? Like Rum 6......Jerry was his name..he lived right there in that building on the corner of Davidson Avenue & Fordham Avenue, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, I can say many TBB members later on became members of the Rock Steady Crew. In fact I once put out an article on the creation of Rock Steady and many of the original members listed there where down with TBB before. I guess that's why when Aby and them saw that they were like, "Yeah, this is why RSC came from TBB!" It didn't come from TBB. Those guys were down because we put them down. They wanted to be down with Rock Steady. Not that they were all TBB members and we just started the Rock Steady Crew.  Rock Steady got started outside of TBB, it didn't get started within TBB, you know what I'm saying? This is what the argument is about. I was never a member of TBB and I have never seen a Rock Steady shirt and a TBB shirt together. I heard about that, too, and that's not true. There was a Rock Steady shirt....the main colours were brown and white and black and yellow. Those were the main Rock Steady colours. Don't let nobody tell you otherwise. Those were the main colours. I was there when we went to Frank's and got them t-shirts made.....at Frank's Sporting Goods. I had my brown and white Rock Steady shirt and I got my black and yellow Rock Steady shirt. I got both of them."    

SIR NORIN RAD:"So how did you meet Jimmy Dee and Jimmy Lee?"

JOJO:"Ok, this is how it all started.....Jimmy Dee...I meet him through Ricky Dee. Ricky Dee was a DJ, he had DJ equipment. So that's how I met Ricky Dee 'cause I went to one of  the jams where he was  DJing. Then I met Jimmy Dee through Ricky Dee. So we all became friends. At that time Jimmy Dee wasn't no B-Boy. Like I said I taught him 'cause he knew I was a B-Boy. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did Ricky Dee DJ at?"

JOJO:"Not too many places. He would DJ at house parties and sometimes he would do it in front of his building. Now as far as Jimmy Lee goes, me and Jimmy Lee had a big fight on Halloween. After that I didn't see him for a few months and then one day I was at another DJ Whitehead jam at 82 park and I served some kid when I got up I saw that Jimmy Lee was there. He wasn't Jimmy Lee then, he was just Jimmy, you know what I'm saying? He came walking over and I said to myself,"Don't tell me I have to fight this kid again." He came to me and said,"Hey, you think you can teach me how to dance like that?" I was like, "Yeah, man. You wanna learn?" He's like,"Yeah!" I said, "Just come to my house, I live on Grand Avenue. Meet me here tomorrow and I'll show you." Sure enough he showed up the next day and we started practicing and like I said I showed him the fundamentals. Same thing with Jimmy Dee."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let us please talk about the year in which the Rock Steady Crew was created. Obviously, since you were still down with the Crazy Commanders at that Dungeon Battle in late 1978, Rock Steady's birth cannot have taken place in 1977."

JOJO:"The misconception about the year......Yeah, I might have got the years mixed up and I'm gonna be honest. I remember the Blackout and that was in 1977. That's what I remember and I thought it ( the creation of Rock Steady) happened around that time but I could be wrong. Rock Steady could have started in 1979."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was Crazy Legs among the original members of the Rock Steady Crew of 1979?"

JOJO:"No, he wasn't. He never did anything with us."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, but what about the battle of Crazy Legs and his cousin Lenny Len had against Jimmy Dee and Jimmy Lee in 1979 in order to join Rock Steady?"

JOJO:"I wasn't there and I don't remember this happening in 1979."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the original hang out spot of the Rock Steady Crew? I guess that Rock Steady Park on 98th Street & Amsterdam Avenue in Manhattan came later in the early 1980s, right?"

JOJO:"Yes, that was the second generation's stomping ground. The first generation's hang out spot was 115. We was hanging out at 115 and when me and Jimmy Dee put those words "Rock Steady Crew" together, we was on Anthony Avenue..right there by Echo Park. Right where Jimmy Dee lived at, in his room. I also used to teach Jimmy Dee in his room. He had a carpet in his room, I couldn't spin there but I used to teach him in his room. That's where the name Rock Steady Crew came up and we ran with that from then on. Jimmy Lee wasn't even there. There was also a building across the street that we had a club house in. In the building 111 on the first floor Rock Steady had a club house there. We had a club house in that abandoned building. Then there was fire and the whole building burnt down and to this day it's still an empty building. Who can tell you this?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your top breakbeats to go off to back in the 1970ies?"

JOJO:"Back then of course it was "Apache". That was the first one and then after that it was "It's Just Begun" and after that it was "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose" by James Brown. What's another dope one? There was a jam called "Blow Your Head" by Fred Wesley & The J.B.'s Yeah, those were my top breakbeats." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you! And who do you consider to be the best three B-Boys from your era?"

JOJO:" I can only tell you from my experience. I can't tell you that much what was going on in the South Bronx with Starchild La Rock, TDK, TBB, Rockwell and all of them. As far as on my side of town it was Spy, me and Shorty Rock. My brother was also a very good B-Boy.We were the ones that were locking it down in my area." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"You said that when you first met Trac 2 you knew that he was a B-Boy by the way he was dressed. How did B-Boys dress during your era?"

JOJO:"Well, first of all your baseball cap was always to the side or backwards, it was never forward. Back then when we were young we were poor kids so we really didn't have the best clothes. So back then most of the B-Boys were kinda bummy. When we got older we were the ones that took the term "fresh" and turned it around to "being fresh". You know, like our Adidas were clean. We were like, "If you step on my shoes I kill you!" We were taught on keeping our gear fresh. That term "fresh" came from us! So we took that image of being bummy and turned it around to being fly and dancing and being fly and still getting up and being clean. We ironed our pants with Niagara starch, you know what I'm saying? I mean we had the crease, the killer crease. The Adidas suits were firm... all that. Another thing we used to do 'cause we were into straight legs...straight legs looked a little bit more stylish when it came to Breaking...so we used to tie our shit with laces along the legs. We used to take one sock and fold it up and put it into our socks so the front of my sneakers would look busted out really fat and shit. We did all that. I mean I'm the type of person you'll never catch me wearing an Adidas shirt with Nike sneakers."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So dressing fresh or fly was part of the B-Boy identity?"

JOJO:"Yeah, that's where "fresh" came from. You know, (raps) "cold chillin' at a party in a B-Boy stance!" How do you chill in a B-Boy stance if you're not fresh? You had to have style 'cause you know if you was a B-Boy and you was a bum they had pity for you like, "That ni**er is dirty. You see his pants? What's wrong with him??" and then you would get help. Other B-Boys would look out for you. They'd be like, "I let you rock these tonight! Wear these sneakers!" or whatever, whatever. But we didn't have to that 'cause after a while we started to get our gear together."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give any shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

JOJO:"Yes, I'd liketo give a shoutout that was involved back then. Mad love and respect to Aby and Batch. Trace 2...may he and all the other guys that have passed over the years rest in peace.I wanna give a shoutout to my man Spy. I hope he'll be out soon. We got a lot of work to do. Shoutouts to everybody else that supports this. We love you 'cause this is our culture, this is our life! Shoutouts to my crew of today..Original Skillz!! Shoutouts to Kevski and B-Boy Concrete Monkey. Shout outs to Sting Like A Bee Prez B and Alora. I also appreciate you, Norin, for the interviews that you are doing. Oh yeah, one more thing..shoutouts to my wife Lorrie for supporting me from day one. Love ya Baby! "

 

 

   

Interview with B-Boy Voodoomaster Herb

                                                  Interview with B-Boy Voodoomaster Herb

                                                                               

Voodoomaster Herb

                                        conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany) 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly in Harlem did you grow up at?

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, actually it was two parts. There was the Bronx and Harlem 'cause I was in the Bronx first, then I moved to Harlem.

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were born in the Bronx?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which part of the Bronx?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I was born in the South Bronx, around Prospect Avenue."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when did you move to Harlem?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, now this is tricky. At a very young age we moved to Harlem but then we moved back to the Bronx. So we'll go by when I moved back to Harlem and stayed. 1975 is when I moved back to Harlem and stayed there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where in Harlem did you live at then?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"145th Street."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's the Sugar Hill section, correct?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, that is. That's the Sugar Hill section. West Harlem."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of music was being played at your house when you were growing up?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, it was pretty much everything!  You know, we had Al Green....Stax, Atlantic.....you know the label that Aretha Franklin was on......Rufus Thomas, of course James Brown. Everybody played James Brown!!  You had Black Ivory, Blue Magic, The Delfonics...there were all sorts of R&B bands out back then and it was wonderful. The music was beautiful!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were listening to both the uptempo funky joints and the smooth slow joints?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you witness Breaking for the first time? How old were you then?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"For the first time it's kinda hard to say, you know, because it's been woven in into the urban culture so long! 'Cause I mean if you go back to documentaries where you see Sammy Davis Jr. .......he did it also!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"He had that exquisite footwork...."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!! And he had ground techniques!! So like I said it's been woven in into the urban culture, it just carried all the way over into the Hiphop Culture but my first experience with it.....with me getting down.....was when I first met Mark....Puppetmaster (the legendary B-Boy Puppetmaster from the Shaka Zulus). I mean I knew a little about it but when I saw him it was like the wow factor! This is how good he was!!!(excited)"

SiR NORIN RAD:"Damn!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, he was like the wow factor!! I was okay, I know I was good but then you have some people that are exceptional and that was my man Mark, the Puppetmaster!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe that occasion when Puppetmaster showed you his B-Boy Skills for the very first time!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:" I met him through this guy Doug. Doug wasn't a B-Boy, Doug was a friend of his and a friend of mine. We were walking one day and that was back in the 1970ies when you would carry your boom box with you and we were walking down 145th Street going towards Riverside and we had a tape in the boom box and that's when I first saw Puppetmaster dance. And it was the wow factor! I was like, "Holy shit! This dude is nice!!!" 'cause he did stuff I had never seen before!"

B-Boy Puppetmaster (The Shaka Zulus)

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall what kind of moves he did?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, you know, you do your basic introduction moves on top. Crossing your legs and everything..... but when you go down on the floor it's the combination that makes your style unique and that's what he had! He had a certain combination. You know, you had a lot of B-Boys when they go down the initial moves are the same and then you always gonna have those special moves that sort of separates you from everybody else. And you know, that's what I didn't have at first. I mean I was good and I had certain moves but when I saw him I was like, "Wow! I gotta get on my game!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the process through which you build up your B-Boy skills."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, the gift was already there 'cause like I said growing up I always seeen it. You know, there was always one person competing with another and I used to look at it and I'd be like, "Oh man, I could take that guy out!!" You know, and then I would get down there and I would do my thing and that's how my name started surfacing 'cause they would be like, "Yo, this guy Voodooo is nice!" I thought I was really good till I met Mark (Puppetmaster) That's when I said,"Okay, I gotta brush up on my game!" And even there were a lot of moves that he did that I incorporated with mine....I was like, "I gotta get that!!" That's what we called biting back then (laughs). He was that good! I mean there were a lot of guys that were almost as good as him but when it came to competition he pulled a rabbit out of his hat!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you and Puppetmaster became good friends real fast?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh, right on the spot!! Yeah, right on the spot till today! I'm in Virginia now so whenever I go to New York I call him before I get there, "I'm coming up to New York!" We hook up and that's it, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you remember which year that was when you became acquainted with the Puppetmaster?" 

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh yeah, that was about 1975 or 1976. I know it was before the Blackout of 1977."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you practice at?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You know, back then in the Hiphop Culture the B-Boy connection was.....you were always around it 'cause back then there was always a party going on somewhere. I mean they'd hook their system up to the street light and you'd be out in the park all night. You know, you always knew somebody else. I had cousins that were B-Boys and everything so we'd go to the hallway and practice our moves 'cause it was a natural thing that you already had, you understand? To incorporate something else into your repertoire was always good because it wasn't as rehearsed as stuff is now! It was all natural! Everything now is so rehearsed! You can see that it is rehearsed!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"To me it seems that many so called B-Boys of today actually lack soul...."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!! There was one thing I was watching and you know what the gymnastics do on a horse??? This guy's whole ground routine was that!!! I mean it just took so much away from the B-Boy experience 'cause it's like.....this is not B-Boying, this is gymnastics!!! These days they're not in rhythm or anything!!! When you were listening to the music and you were a B-Boy back then your moves were part of that music! Your movement was music, you understand? It was on time, in rhythm and in step. It was undeniable but now all these slips and everything and they're counting moves.......I call it counting moves!! I laugh at it.......I mean Harlem and the Bronx....all these urban areas, they were real rough. So you couldn't get a lot of people to come in and document this visually. This is the only disadvantage we had, if it got to the point where you could have documented us visually you would have been amazed by what you saw!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were some of the venues in Harlem that you would dance at?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, well we would always go to East Harlem. I mean my crew we were from West Harlem but we didn't stay in one particular area, we were all over East Harlem. For B-Boys you had the Renaissance Ballroom and you had the Audubon Ballroom of course!!!! That was my stage...the Audubon!!! I always killed the competition there at the Audubon and then you had a lot of rec centers that were turned into clubs after hours on the weekends. Mark (Puppetmaster) started taking me over to the Bronx to meet the Zulus. That was my first encounter with them.  You also had a lot of stuff going on in the projects. Like I said they'd take their DJ equipment out, hook it up to the lamp post and you'd be out there all night. St. Nicholas Park was one of these spots. And of course between 146th and 147th Street in Manhattan...in between Amsterdam & Broadway...we had a little park over there. I can't remember the school.....163 I believe it was... we had that yard! Puppetmaster used to always appear there. He would go off and I would go off as well but we never competed against each other. So many people wanted to see that but we never competed against each other! Like he had a protege named Anthony and I had a protege named Ace. You know, we sent them to compete with each other...waiting for us to interfere and jump in..then the other one would jump in but it just never happened!! (laughs)"

The Audubon Ballroom

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like to come to a party at Bronx River Center for the first time?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Bronx River, man! That was an experience! I mean there were so many cats! First I was too intimidated to do anything. You know, I'm not gonna lie! You had Cholly Rock, Beaver.....and there were even some females....Trina (RIP), Taste (RIP), Natalie......there were a lot of  females that were nice so I was looking and I tried to feel it out at first, then when it started coming to almost the end I said to myself, "Well, you know no better time than now!" So I went down and did my stuff. What I did was impressive enough to be able to come back and do what I do. It was fun." 

 SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you go there? Did you take a cab?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"No, we took the train."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did that party take place inside of the Bronx River Center or outside of it?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"My first experience was inside the center 'cause I believe it was winter time. Bambaataa was DJing, it was inside and I 'd be doing that all winter. Then I used to see DJ Mario outside...in the back of the center. Mario used to have that coffin with his turntables in there and everything and this just caught me. He had his system in a coffin. It was weird!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What went through your mind back then when you were approaching Bronx River Center hearing those beats from blocks away?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh, you were anxious to get there. You know, you're real anxious when you hear it, especially when it's a sound that you're familiar with. That would be the sound that you can break to.  You would be like, "Oh man!!!!!!!" Then you would start to put a little pep in your step to get there to see who's already on the floor doing what they're doing, you understand? So you could go ahead and do your thing. It was always that anxious feeling once you hear it because you'd hear it from blocks away.  I mean these guys had some serious systems!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How many B-Boy circles would usually form there inside of Bronx River Center?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You'd see at least tree, four circles! You know everybody else would be dancing......doing regular dancing or doing The Hustle but you would see at least three or four B-Boy circles. This is one thing about B-Boys.....not too many B-Boys wanted to start the circle off. They wanted to see what somebody else got before they go and display their skills. So everybody waiting around to see who goes first, you know? And then that's how it started. They would set it off. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"What went through your mind when a truly nice B-Boy jumped into the circle and did his thing?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, this is how it is with B-Boys back then...like I said a lot of things were never rehearsed back then. You did have signature moves but what you did...everything was pretty much off the top of your head. You got down on that floor and the only thing that you would have to remember is what you did that made everybody like stand up on their feet like, "Wooooooow!!!" You know, you just had to remember what it was that you did. Then.....the funny thing about it is...then you would go home and practice it. You would do it first...like something you even surprized yourself doing it...'cause that's how B-Boying was back then.....spontaneous, it wasn't something rehearsed. You'd just get down there, you'd do what you do, then you'd get up and he'd go down there and do his stuff and in that instant you had to think of something better than that. See that's a true B-Boy, you know, where you can make something up right there on the spot!!!! And that's the difference between what they do now and what we used to do back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did B-Boys typically wear back in your era?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You know, back then Levi's wasn't the big jeans! Lee were the big jeans!!!!! (chuckles) Bell bottom Lees, Pro-Keds or you might have your Playboys on or your British Walkers. But see that's the thing about a B-Boy...it doesn't matter what you had on. If you were called out no matter what you had on you would get down on that floor!! If you called out a B-Boy no matter how fly he was, you understand, if you called him out, he was coming out!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What exactly was considered to be fly during your era?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You had your Cortefiel coat, you had your Overlaps. Sometimes you had some Teardrops.....you had your Playboys or your British Walkers, a Mockneck sweater or maybe a cardigan v-neck sweater with your Kangol on."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How were battles initiated back then? Did they start by one B-Boy jumping into the circle and doing a certain move specifically directed towards another B-Boy?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly!! Like that happened to me one time......actually, that's how I met Fletch. I'm gonna give you that story first! Everybody knew about me B-Boying and then they were like, "Yo, Fletch is up at the Battlegrounds!!!! Blah, blah, blah, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"The Battlegrounds!!!!!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, that's in Harlem also."

SIR NORIN RAD:"The People's Choice Crew used to rock there...."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"The People's Choice, Fever Disco...."

SIR NORIN RAD:"And also The G-Force, right?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly!!! (laughs)!"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn, so B-Boying went down at the Battlegrounds as well?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah!! It became one of my spots but Fletch was there so I said, "Okay, I'mma go up there and see what this guy's about!" You know what I'm saying, I watched him, I was a little impressed by him but I said, "Let me go down and do my stuff!!!" And I wowed them!!!! Everybody was like, "Uuuuuh!" because they had never seen me before but I had heard of Fletch. Fletch used to be with this other guy called Johnny. Johnny was also good and then he had another partner named Frank. So that's how I met Fletch. We started talking, I brought up Puppetmaster's name and after that we started hanging out."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So did you go often to the Battlegrounds in order to take out other B-Boys?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"It was a regular spot whenever they did their thing but me and Fletch kinda held down that B-Boy arena. You know, there would be guys that came there but we would just embarrass them and they would go about their way. So pretty much the Battlegrounds belonged to me and Fletch, you know as far as the B-Boy thing was concerned. Puppetmaster....I would see him every now and then but he would always be up in the Bronx. So the Battlegrounds, the schoolyard betweeen 146th and 147th Street, the Audubon Ballroom and places like that....pretty much....that were our territories. That was me and Fletch, we held that down."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please provide more details of that battle against Fletch!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, I had heard about Fletch before then but I had never met him. I was actually on the corner of 145th Street & Amsterdam Avenue. The Battlegrounds is on Amsterdam Avenue & 152nd Street. Somebody came to me and said, "Yo, Fletch is up there at the Battlgrounds!" I said, "Yeah? Okay, let me go up there!" I went up there and like I said I saw a circle already around him. I'm like, "Yeah, okay! Let me wait for him to do something crazy." I could tell that he was comfortable and that this was his arena because when he finished doing his stuff and he stood up he wasn't expecting nobody to step in that circle and do something and that's when I came in. Everybody's looking like, "Oh, who's this???" And I went down, did my thing. Like I said I impressed them all. All you heard was, "Oh shit!!!!!!" And then, you know, he went down again, I went down again and then they sorta switched the tempo of the music so we had stopped right there. That allowed us to get acquainted with each other and that formed a friendship right then and there!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Fletch was from Featherbed Lane in the Bronx, right?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, you see that's the thing. A lot of people from the Bronx moved to Manhattan.  'Cause Fletch lived up there on  163rd Street.....something like that.....between Amsterdam Avenue & Broadway. See a lot of us moved from the Bronx to Manhattan."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that the Bronx and Harlem were like siblings when it came to Hiphop Culture?"

VOODOOMASTR HERB:"Yeah, exactly, yeah!!! 'Cause you're sharing the same DJs and everything. Like if there's a party over here this week...you know, let's say TJ The DJ (The People's Choice Crew)...they're giving a party this week so we're all over there. Now the next day DJ Mario might be giving a party at JHS 123 so, you know, we're goin over there. Everybody shared...."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you and Fletch became something like a crew after that battle and started going to different parties, is that correct?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly. We would do that. It was me, him and Frank."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your favourite breakbeats back then?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh man, it was always "It's Just Begun" by The Jimmy Castor Bunch! Of course James Brown "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose"....but there were so many more."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about "Apache"?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Of course!! That was without a doubt!  That whole album had at least four banging beats on there....."Apache", "Bongo Rock", "Duelling Bongos", "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida". I still have all these records. "Let's Dance" by Pleasure is another one. "Mambo #5" by Samba Soul.....it was a Salsa record but it had a vicious breakbeat!!!! We would go off to that! Then they had this other one. That was the Zulu's record!!! It was a band from Brazil! I don't remember the name....."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I think you're referring to "Mandamentos Black" by The Gerson King Combo."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, yeah!!! (excited) Gerson King Combo...that was it!!! Yo, when they played that song you had about twenty circles!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"For real???!!?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"(laughs) When that song played you had about twenty damn circles, man!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about "Juju Man" by Passport? Pow Wow told me that him and Cholly Rock once burnt a whole squad of B-Boys to this joint up in The Valley."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh yeah! That too!!! All of these get you on the floor in a heartbeat! Once those songs came on the crowd would just erupt and then the B-Boying would start! You had two Charlie Rocks (one of them is actually spelled Cholly Rock, a legendary Zulu King B-Boy from Uptown, BX), 'cause you had a Charlie Rock from Manhattan also."

SIR NORIN RAD:"B-Boy Charlie Rock from The Rock City Crew."

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, yeah!!!! The Rock City Crew was right around the 145th Street area also, all the way down to 80th something. They had a very strong crew!!! And then you had The Mechanics.......Did Mark (Puppetmaster) tell you about The Mechanics?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"No, please elaborate on them!"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"That was another time I saw the Puppetmaster do his thing. He danced against one of The Mechanics in the Battlegrounds. That was another sight to see!!!! This guy from the Mechanics he did tricks, like he blew fire out of his mouth and all of this stuff. So I was like, "Where does he get these gimmicks from, man?"But he was good and he was double-jointed, so he used to do a lot of things with his body. It was a good battle but he just couldn't mess with the Puppetmaster!!!  I'm surprised he didn't tell you about The Mechanics!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were they from Harlem, too?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, they were from Harlem, too. From the Battlegrounds area. I think they had about four or five members and my sister she still knows of the guys 'cause he still likes her from way back then but they're just good friends."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Since you mentioned The Rock City Crew what do you recall about the legendary B-Boy Sondance?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"He was an awesome B-Boy!! Let me tell you something.....now this is what made Sondance so good. He was that big but he moved the way he moved!! He burnt a lot of people but you know it's just a fact that he burnt them because they underestimated him. They didn't think anybody that big could move like that!!! Like when you saw John Belushi doing backflips, you wouldn't expect somebody of that size doing backflips. That's what it was with Sondance. You know, you  didn't have any answer to it! They were like, "Oh, this dude is nice!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you pick the name Voodoomaster?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Because when I started breaking.....you know, like I told you about  the guy from The Mechanics who used to blow fire out his mouth.....I used to do a lot of these transformation moves like I was transforming into something else on the floor and I guess that's where the name Voodoomaster came from."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you do certain routines?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, like I said I would transform into something that crawls on the floor, then I'd spin around or jump up in the air. Then I had that thing called The Dead Man's Drop. Now that was hard! You know, cause it took me...like I actually had to practice that move 'cause I was on the floor doing my moves, then I started spinning real fast and then I pushed myself up in the air and I would spin in the air and you know you had to land right or you would hurt yourself because you could land on your side but I put my foot under my leg and that would cushion my fall. I used to call that The Dead Man's Drop because it looked like you spun in the air and you just came down on deadweight. Then I jumped back up and started spinning and do the helicopter. Then I had and I actually got this move down pat to at least three spins while I was able to spin without no hands at all and that was one of my moves. That was one of the moves I used when I first met Fletch and that's why everybody was like, "Oh, shit!!!"  because not too many people could do their spinning with no hands at all. You had to spin fast enough to pick up the momentum to raise your hands and to spin three more times before you stopped."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did B-Boying mean to you back then?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I LOVED B-BOYING!!!! That was my passion! And that's the thing we didn't do it for money or nothing, we did it because we enjoyed it! I'd go everywhere where there was B-Boying going on! Once Mark (Puppetmaster) took me to the Bronx I was always back in the Bronx. Plus where I used to live in the Bronx I'd go around there and they'd have something going on Marmion Avenue, Boston Road.......places like that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the three best B-Boys that you ever witnessed going off?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"It would be Puppetmaster #1, Puppetmaster #2 (Rodney B, cousin of Puppetmaster #1 and also a Shaka Zulu B-Boy)......I have seen a lot of B-Boys but they were mostly guys that I could deal with but I'm talking about B-Boys that I could only hang with for a little while before they would go ahead and do something that would get me out of the circle. So it would be Puppetmaster #1, Puppetmaster #2 and I guess Beaver (The Little Zulu Kings). That's about it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I wanna give a shoutout to all the B-Boys and B-Girls from back in the days and a big shoutout to you for connecting with me!"