Interview with the legendary Style Writer Pel

Pel

 

 

Conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders/Germany) 

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which borough are you originally?"

PEL:"Actually I grew up in Manhattan, New York City. I'm a Puerto Rican guy from East Harlem. That part of Manhattan is very close to the Bronx. I moved to the Bronx when I was about 13 just making 14 and that's when I started Writing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly in the Bronx did you live when you started Writing?"

PEL:"Okay, well the 4 train line runs on Jerome Avenue which goes down to 149th Street which would be considered South Bronx. I lived on 176th Street, I would say that's the Southwest Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What inspired you to pick up Writing and how old were you then?"

PEL:"Well actually, I started noticing it when I was like.....early 13. I went to Brooklyn..I jumped on a train in the Bronx that goes through Manhattan and then goes to Brooklyn. So the first piece that I noticed was on a train, a F train that had Pistol on it, a Pistol 3D. That blew my mind. I was like, "Wow!" I was blown away."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Pistol 1 was a famous Brooklyn Writer, correct?"

PEL:"Yes, he was. I was amazed at the 3D that Pistol did and then I saw Flint 707 (another famous Brooklyn Writer who incorporated the 3D effect into his pieces). The next one I saw was a Flint. It caught my eye when I was looking at trains. I saw the Pistol train when I was going to Brooklyn and I seen the Flint going back home to the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When was that? Around 1973/74?"

PEL:"Very close, yeah!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about the Writers from the Bronx? Like Lee 163rd!, Phase 2 and them? Did you notice them as well?"

PEL:"Well at the time back then.... the guys that I noticed more were Super Strut, Hondo One...The pieces weren't from the window down, they were kind of floating basically. They would float in the middle of the train. I can't remember all the guys that I would see back then but Hondo One and Super Strut those were the ones that I noticed. Me when I saw the Pistol piece and that Flint piece they was so much put together I was like, "Wow!" Oh, another guy that I actually saw was Riff 170. I saw a couple of his pieces.....they were Riff and Worm (alias of Riff 170)."

Early Piece by Super Strut

 

SIR NORIN RAD:" Please describe the process which made you pick Style Writing!"

PEL:"Well with me what happened...I try to make it short.....there was a friend of mine his name was Kiki. He had moved out of the neighbourhood about when I had just gotten in. His mom and dad...they moved back to Harlem. He  would come up a couple of times from Harlem and he would say that he was writing on the trains.  I think I was 13 or 14. Kiki was a little younger than me, a year or so younger than me....and he'd say,"Yeah, I hit the trains!!!" I was fascinated, I said "What do you mean you hit the trains? You put your name up on the train?" He was like, "Yeah!" I said, "Wow! That's pretty cool!"  He kinda sparked my interest in doing it 'cause I asked him, I said,"Hey, how does that work?" But anyway we talked a little bit but not much. Then...a turn of event...he went back home and I never did see Kiki again because I found out like a week later he was shot...they shot him in the head. So it was a sad thing. He kinda got me into it. So when I found that out I felt very bad....I was only 14 maybe. What happened one day...there was a group of us.. we were all sitting in front of my building. They were my friends in the building, they were two brothers and one sister and a friend named Berta. We were all good friends and used to hang out in front of my building. We would talk about Kiki and about what he had done and I'd say, "You know what? One of these day I'mma write on the trains!" They didn't know what I was talking about but we actually walked down from 176th to 175th where you stand on the corner and you can look and see the subway trains go by as they pull into the station. I said, "I'm gonna be doing that one day." They didn't believe me of course. That's basically how I started."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you choose the name PEL?"

 PEL:"Well, what happened was...the very first name that I actually considered writing was a crazy name but it was Superfly Sly and I actually met another friend that was kinda showing me  how to build markers. In America we had these cans of pepper. They were like one inch by two inches wide and then you'd take a blackboard eraser from school and some ink but we didn't know so we were making a mess of ourselves......trying to put something together like a Uni Wide Marker but crude."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess the ink was dripping all over the place?"

PEL:"Yes and it was hard to control the ink and also in the beginning I used the wrong ink. I was learning, didn't use the right ink. Didn't know about Flo-Master Ink then. I actually went tagging alone because it was word of mouth on how it was done. You ride the train to the last stop and wait until it clears and do it or you do it quickly when no one's looking. But I never liked tagging. Didn’t do it much. I was more of an outside guy."

 

Flo-Master Ink

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"But isn't it true that tags are the foundation of Writing? What are your thoughts on that?"

PEL:"Well, yes it is and pretty much that’s how it started on the outside with tags until someone became more creative on the outside. But that was before my time. I realized trying to wrie my name Superfly Sly was excessively too long so I said to myself,"I need to cut it down!" So I wind up cutting it down to Sly 5 and then I also added 176 because there were so many Slys back then. The 176 came from where I lived, that's the street where I lived on. That's how I got the name Sly 5 / 176 but then I also found that to be a little bit too long. I just did a few pieces of the Sly 5 /176. I did a few Sly 5s on the inside with a Uni Wide Marker and I did a few on the outside. I met another guy that told me about it...his name was Lil Flame. He came around bragging about how he did this and that so that encouraged me to now hit on the outsides but before I did that I did a piece in my schoolyard for practice. I can't remember which spraypaint I used...I don't think it was Red Devil or anything like that...I believe it was Krylon. And, you know, my Sly didn't come out bad for my very first time.  After I did that King 2 saw me doing a piece one time and we started talking about it. So he wind up doing a King 2 piece in my schoolyard and I did a Sly 5."

Early Sly 5 Piece by Pel

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"You are talking about King 2 who was down with Tracy 168 and them, right?"

PEL:"Right, before he hung out with Tracy and all those guys me and King 2 were good friends. We used to play baseball, basketball.....King 2 lived right across the street from the schoolyard where we used to play football, baseball...everything and that's how I knew King 2."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the name of that school?"

PEL:"That school was called Wade Junior High School. That wasn't my school in particular, that was just a junior school that was in the neighbourhood right across the street from us."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess that name Superfly Sly was inspired by that blaxploitation film called Superfly that came out in 1972."

PEL:"Right!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Curtis Mayfield did the soundtrack of that movie. "Freddie's Dead" and many other great songs are on that album."

PEL:"That's it and I tell you why (laughs)! Believe it or not I couldn't see the movie when it came out because I was too young. Over here you had to be 18 or older. I remember I was 12, 13. I liked the song "Freddie's Dead". I liked to listen to a lot of music and I still do now. I still sing and everything now. My older brother he was a little ladies' man kinda guy and he would bring home the Superfly record and I would listen to it a lot. And then Superfly he was smooth, he was a pimp, he had nice clothes and I was a guy that used to dress up nicely when I used to go paint. Believe it or not, the cops would come and chase after everybody and I would stand right there and they would run right by me 'cause they wouldn't see me dirty or anything. They would see me in decent clothes, so they chased everybody else. That happened several times."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn! The late Phase 2 (RIP) also stated in his book Style Writing From The Underground that many of those Writers who had a vicious style in terms of piecing were known as fly dressers as well."

PEL:"Oh yeah. Definitely! To me it was important to dress up nicely. As I said I had an older brother who was a couple of inches taller than me but I still got some of his clothes handed down to me. I had to hem up my pants a little bit cause I could fit into his clothes. You know, we weren't rich by no means, we were so poor it was ridiculous. I got his clothes and I would just wear them. I just didn't like to get dirty like some of these guys. These guys had like two, three day old paint on them. I liked to look decent, I just did. That was just me."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of clothing was considered as fly back then?"

PEL:"Well, what happened was Harlem set the trends because they had A.J. Lester's there. Remember I was from Harlem originally, so you kinda had a certain style. Dressing up back then you know they used to have nice colours....they used to have this thing called the mockneck....it was like a turtleneck but with a shorter collar.  Then you had knit shirts...sometimes they had designs on them. Nice jeans and sneakers to match the shirt depending on whatever colour it was. Some of us wore Matador pants.They are the pants with the wide waste. You get them from AJ Lesters. They have 3 buttons in stead of one to latch the pants. You know Phase 2 was known for going to the 149th Street Writer's Bench on the Grand Concourse and putting on a nice Robin Hood hat. He was dressing fly. So if the cops came to chase everybody he could sit right there and they would look at him like, "Who are you??"  Because you know they looked at the Graffiti guys as vandals and roughnecks and dirty little scoundrels. I saw what he was doing and I was like, "Damn! I like to dress up, too!" So every now and then I had on the plaid pants and a nice shirt and sneakers......my sneakers were clean and everything. Most of the Writers back then they wore jeans and jackets and things that identified them as a menace.  I didn't wanna be caught up in that."

 SIR NORIN RAD:"Is is true that you mainly hit the 4 line?"

PEL:"Yes, most of my beginning was done on the 4 line. There was this kid that I told you about... Lil Flame... he started bragging......he was a few  years older than me, he was about two or three years older than me and he started bragging how he was going to do this, that and the third. So I said to myself,  "Well, first of all this guy got an excessively long name. So if I'm gonna paint the train I don't wanna be with him 'cause he's gonna take twice the length of the time that is gonna take me to do Sly 5. " So I already had my design in my head and I knew what I had to do.  Well, eventually we would hit the trains together at the lay up on 183rd Street but since he lived a few blocks away I didn’t see him much and I started going by myself and I would see other writers there. But mostly toys and that’s what I was at that time and then I saw that others guys were there before me that day, too. So it gave me the courage to hit alone. Lil Flame showed me the lay up on 183rd. Not the yard. I found out about the 4 yard through Fuzz One. So when me and Lil Flame went to hit the trains he taught me certain things and then you know common sense kicked in where you don't step in the third rail, you step on top of it.  So I was a quick learner because first of all I didn't wanna die. I knew it was crazy reckless. You had to keep watching out for trains while you painted and also watch out for cops. So your head was on a swivel all the time. I learnt how to do Sly 5, I learnt how to do the outlines. Once I did the first piece it was almost like a relief for me. I said,"Now I know what I must do next time I go and paint." I only had two cans, just so I could do the outline and the fill-in. And that's what I did."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you change your name from Sly 5 to Pel?"

PEL:"What happened was one day I was drawing my name Sly 5, Sly 5, Sly 5 and I just got bored with it because I didn't see any other style or anything like that. So then I said, "I need to try something different." So then I started writing Pel and I was like,"Ah, okay! This looks more apealing to me and it's an easier name to know!"After I started writing Pel I started going to 183rd and to different other places, sometimes with King 2 and sometimes without him because I had a little more flexibility somehow. So I started doing a bunch of Pels. I went to 183rd Street and I did like four Pels, then I would two Pels.....any few days 'cause what happened at that time they would start buffing (cleaning) the trains. So I happened to go to 183rd Street on a weekday.. at about 9 o' clock..right at dusk, before it got dark because everybody wanted to get home, nobody cared about anything. So what happened was I got a lot of Pels 'cause remember all the trains were being cleaned. Everybody that was a King or had a lot of pieces on the trains....they (the pieces) were gone!!! I was hitting the brand new trains which they weren't gonna redo because I hit them. So I started becoming pretty dominant on the 4 line."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when did you start writing Pel and when did you begin to write Dime 2?"

 PEL:"Pel was '74 and Dime 2 late '76 because by then I started being more flexible with paint and experience."

 

Pel

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like the first time you went to the Writer's Bench on 149th Street & Grand Concourse?"

PEL:"One day I went to 149th Street and it was a lot of people there. Phase 2, Riff 170.....a whole bunch of people. I had heard about Phase 2 but I had never really got to meet him. So as I'm there a guy named Hydra who was dominant on the 6 line....he was kinda famous....he was there with Butch 2, Kindo.......this guy was like within five feet of me. We was all standing there and all of a sudden all these clean trains come in .....like I said they were cleaning the trains so a lot of people were losing their names....and my name Pel is on one train, it's on the other, it's here, it's there...and Hydra says real loud, "Who the hell is that guy Peg or Pel or whatever?" I'm looking, right? So I say, "Yo, Hydra! That's you, right?"He said, "Yeah!" I said, "My name is Pel. That's me." He was like, "You're that guy?!?" I said, "Yeah!" so when I said that Phase 2 looked up and then Riff looked up, they both looked at me...They were sitting down on the bench, everybody else was standing around watching the trains, drawing and getting tags in their blackbooks...that kind of stuff. Phase 2 looked at me, he tipped his hat, waved at me and said, "Come on over here!" So I walked over to Phase and he asked me, "Yo, you write Pel?" I said, "Well, yeah. You know I'm still kinda learning how to write. I gotta practice at home." So he said, "You got a blackbook?" I said, "No." He was tagging somebody else's blackbook so he asked that guy, "You mind if I tear out a paper?" He tore out a page and actually did a Pel for me, he did a Pel outline and said to me, "Why don't you try this?" I looked at him and said, "Wow! That's nice! Sure, I'll practice this the best I can. It will take me some time." So he said, "Yeah, give it a shot!" Riff was kinda like, "Yeah!" Phase accepted me, so Riff had to. But anyway how I got into changing my name....once Phase 2 gave me that I practiced real hard and I started to take my time. What happened was I had seen that people were rushing and just putting up stuff on the trains. Well, I didn't want to be one of those guys! I wanted my pieces to look different. I also didn't want to compete with nobody doing Top-to-Bottoms because to do all that you have to get nasty and dirty and that just wasn't me. So when Phase 2 gave me that I kept doing a lot of Pels. Well, at the time Riff was doing a lot of Riffs and I noticed that he changed his name to Worm. He did a couple of other things...Worm and Dove.  So I said to myself , "Let me start doing different names." So I started changing my name to something else.....from Pel to Dime 2. I started to get innovative. What also made me change my name were the cops. I heard them say one time when I was on the train station...I was in the lay-up on 183rd Street and I was inside the train getting ready to paint and I heard the cops' radio because you could hear it from a mile away since it was so loud.......I heard them say, "We're looking for this guy Pel. He's is a lightskin guy with a big afro." I was like, "Wow!" Not too many liked to hit there because I guess it was too inconvenient for them. You had to duck when the trains came and you had to look out, make sure they didn't see you. But me I liked it because it wasn't very far from home, it was very comfortable for me to hit there. I knew the area, I knew the neighbourhood, I knew everything about it. So when I heard what the cops were saying I said to myself, "Wow! These guys are looking for me!" That also made me think about changing my name."  

 

Pel

 

Dime 2 by Pel

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So how did you feel when the legendary Style Master Phase 2 gave you a Pel outline to work with?"

PEL:"Well, it was total shock and disbelief that he would even give you his time because Phase 2 was already a name established and for him to nod and to call me over, you know? I was thinking, "Hey, I'm a nobody. I'm just starting." Because he didn't do that for many people. He was a nice guy but it was hard to get to Phase. He was very particular. Those guys Phase 2 and Riff 170 were the ones that set the tone. If you ask me."

Phase 2

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was there some kind of a pecking order at the Writer's Bench back then?"

PEL:"The pecking order......once you were known and I mean I got known pretty fast because I started doing really nice stuff....you would get a seat on the bench automatically. At about 2 or 3 o' clock (p.m.) that bench was full with Writers. Now only six people fit on the bench.....maybe seven if it was a smaller guy. Well, you got 30, 40 guys at that bench and everybody else would be like, "Uh, that's a gang!" They would avoid us and so it would be like mostly us. So let's say there were toys sitting down on the bench...guys that weren't well known, that were just trying to get up..........and I would walk up to the bench they would be like, "Oh my god, Pel! Sit down, man! Here's my book!" So you would get a seat automatically. They would treat you like the big boys. Then it got to a point where you had those kinda guys that was trying to get up and the new guys behind them and they would demand stuff from them. Like,"Hey man, you wanna get up? You gotta...." That kind of stuff. To me that was scandalous. You don't put nobody down like that. You don't make them go out there and make them risk their life for you. Who the hell do you think you are? But yeah we did have those kind of guys. Eventually it started getting to the point where some of these guys would take stuff from these kids that where just starting out, putting a bad taste in other peoples' mouth. In the 1980s I dont know what they did because in 1978 I decided I am not gonna even do trains anymore. I left and went to Chicago at that time to go on with my life."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the process through which you came up with new ideas while you were sketching! Did you listen to a certain kind of music when you were developing new letter patterns?"

PEL:"This is what happened.....when I moved to the Bronx I was 14. When  I came home I would eat some food, smoke a joint, relax and start sketching. We had an old coffee table in the living room I would sketch there. Also I smoked weed in the living room. My mother knew I smoked but she also knew I was responsible. My friend upstairs he hit me up to Earth, Wind & Fire which I never knew who they were. I would listen to the Ohio Players, Earth, Wind & Fire, The O'Jays.....all of those guys. Man, I used to sketch all kind of stuff. I would start with a letter, then I started bending letters and doing different things and stuff. And let me tell you something.....a lot of these cats.....one guy in particular.....Noc..."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Noc 167 OTB"

PEL:"Right, Noc 167. He was a friend of mine. The reason why he was a friend of mine was so he could come and bite everything I knew. I was doing some real freaky stuff back then, some real nice styles! I wish I had some of those sketches now because if you saw those sketches you'd see everybody's style! All I would do is sketch continuously. Everywhere I went I would sketch....when I would eat at a restaurant or a donut shop I would sketch something.....you know, lettering, designs to make it look fancy although I didn't want to get too fancy because of the fact that if you get too fancy you can't read it. My thing was to do a nice sketch, a nice design....something that everybody could read. I found out that Noc 167 was hanging out with Dondi and all these other cats.....kinda taking my style away. I said to myself, "This guy ain't doing nothing but bite everything that I got so he can become famous." And he has never given me props ever since. He never mentioned me. 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that music had an impact on the way you designed letters?"

PEL:"Oh, absolutely. Earth, Wind & Fire, Ohio Players, Parliament....those guys in particular. I used to love me some Parliament. I was seriously into Funk. Even now I listen to Kool & The Gang. There were a lot of influences that did that. Even the weed had some influence on it. It would make you feel so smoothly, you could listen to music and do a sketch,"Oh, I'mma move this over here. I will kick this out this way." (Talking about lettering) I would have all kinds of nice stuff! Then when I was in school I started learning about architectural drawing. Good practice!  My styles were influenced by music, good funky music. The funkier the song, the funkier the letters would come out. It was kinda weird, I didn't know it would have that much of an influence on me but it did."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about bands such as The Jimmy Castor Bunch, Mandrill, The Blackbyrds? Would you listen to their material as well? The raw funk and then the jazz-funk......"

PEL:"Oh yeah!!!! (excited) Absolutely!!! My man you're bringing back memories!!! Blackbyrds they had that song "Doing It In The Park"......."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Rock Creek Park."

PEL:"Yes. Rock Creek Park."

NORIN RAD:"Damn!!!! What do you know about these joints: "Apache" by The Incredible Bongo Band, "It's Just Begun" by The Jimmy Castor Bunch......"

PEL:"Cats used to breakdance to these songs."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you also witnessed cats going off to these songs in the 1970s?"

PEL:"You're kidding, right??? Of course I did. To me Solid 1 (TFP) was a very good dancer."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your memories of the gangs in the 1970ies?"

PEL:"I do remember them but it's funny because where I lived at it was mostly white. This is the weird thing. When I first got there..... it was during the summer time when we moved because they wanted to get me into high school  and my little sister into school and it was crazy because it was an all white neighbourhood mostly...I would say 90% white...and as we went into the block to look at the apartment there were ladies, older ladies...I wanna say mostly Jewish, some Italian..with those silver things around their neck lying out in the sun on beach chairs trying to get a tan....in the city, in the Bronx!!!!! This was one of the craziest things I had ever seen. It was a nice neighbourhood so I didn't see all the gang stuff. Now had I went to the other side of the Bronx, to the Southeast Side I would have seen more gangs. In my neighbourhood there weren't too many."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you define a burner piece?"

PEL:"My thing is this.....first of all to me a burner has to have a nice flow and the letters got to be of the same family. To me if you keep in the same family you can get fancy but don't make it illegible where a person has a hard time to decipher it and the colour blends should be pleasing to the eye and not a mess. There's people out there and I don't wanna mention no names that just go overboard with colours and  I'm like,"Wow! You don't have to do all that!" It's like you put too much ingredients into the soup, it tastes bad. Sometimes it's better to do less than to overdo it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you. By which criteria were battles between train writers judged back then? Did you ever go against another Writer?"

PEL:"Yeah, for some reason they put me against Riff 170 being that we did this and that but that wasn't even true. Riff was a better Writer than me at the time. He is still very good! Riff is a very good artist. At the time what made him a really outstanding Writer was the fact that he controlled his paint. He had really amazing ideas, he was that one guy that was really different. He was really innovative. I took some of his ideas to get me going and I'm not ashamed to say that because he was really good. Then I sat down and started experimenting with my letters....I went off and I really went into my own. But when two people have a battle I look at simplicity.....be simplistic with style and you'll have something nice! Now you can just be a painter like anybody else. I mean you see all this stuff on the wall and you're like, "What the hell is that??? Is this supposed to be graffiti??? What does it say?" You know graffiti is about letters!!!! Let's put it this way...in a nutshell...when we started Writing we were called Writers, not painters. Now people are artists that's fine but we were Writers on the trains putting up our names to be identfied by other laymen. That was the point of you. I hope that helps."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were you aware of the park jams that were thrown by DJs such as Afrika Bambaataa, Kool Herc or Grandmaster Flash back then? Did you attend them?"

PEL:"I didn't really attend those too much. I would go to these parties if they were like close to my neighbourhood. I remember attending this Grandmaster Flash party in an empty supermarket and it was raining heavily outside. People were dancing , having a good time! The DJs had these huge soundsystems back then and they would get electricity from a light pole in the parks. It was fun but it got to a point where it became really dangerous to go to these parties,  more guns were around and people got shot randomly so I decided not to go there anymore."

Pel

                                           

Dime 2 by Pel

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please name 5 songs from back then that had a huge impact on you when you were sketching?"

PEL:"The first one is "Reasons" by Earth, Wind & Fire. The second one is "Sweet Sticky Thing". by The Ohio Players. The third one is also by Earth, Wind & Fire........"Brazilian Rhymes"...it used to put me in a good mood. The fourth is one "One Nation Under A Groove" by Funkadelic and the fifth one is "Aqua Boogie" by Parliament."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

PEL:"Yeah, I wanna give shoutout to my man Phase 2....God bless him....Lava 1 & 2.....God bless him, too! Case 2 RIP..... My friends.....Checker 170, Part 1, Chain 3, Ree, King 2 and all the other fellas that I can't remember at the moment. I wish you guys well! Be safe!

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 
 

                                          Interview with DJ B-Ward (Rockwell Inc.)

                                                                              

DJ B-Ward (Rockwell Inc.)

                                                          
                                             conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany) 


SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Bronx are you originally?"

DJ B-WARD:"Marble Hill Projects."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's on the westside of the Bronx, right?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, by Kennedy High School, right by the bridge going into Manhattan."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you get into Hiphop? Were you a B-Boy once?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, yeah I used to breakdance. That's where it started from.......from going to  different clubs breakdancing. I never paid attention to who was actually playing the music because they only played the music we was like doing the B-Boy dance to. Then after that I started getting into DJing. You know, you like the music and you start playing the music yourself. I wind up finding my own beats back then. They sounded good so I put them into my music. That's how that went on. But when I started DJing I didn't know too many other DJs. I went to Afrika Bambaataa from the Zulu Nation and then when I was in school there was a guy named (Lovebug) Starski and also (Kool DJ ) AJ. AJ and Starksi....They used to do parties at Harlem Prep and The Renaissance but they had their own style. Everybody had their own style, you know? After a while everybody had a crew of three, four MCs and that's how I wind up doing the same. When they see you playing the music everybody wants to come in. I kept saying, "If they sound good bring'em in!" So I had a lot of MCs, maybe seven or eight but I couldn't really have everybody join the crew because they were too many. You don't wanna overflow it, just a certain amount of people so it looks proper. So I had to narrow it down to maybe three or four MCs. That's when I saw Flash coming around and when he was doing it I did a party with him also at the Ecstasy Garage. And then there were a few other guys..... Theodore....they called them The L-Brothers. Then I met one guy Kevie Kev (Rockwell)......he is still DJing now....I brought him in and he started rocking with me and we had good times. "

June 6th, 1980: The Rockwell Crew is rocking at the legendary Ecstasy Garage in the BX along with Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were some of the venues that you used to go to in order to dance when you were still a B-Boy? Would you go places like The Hevalo?"

DJ B-WARD:"The Hevalo....yeah I used to go there and dance also. A lot of guys.....Sasa was there, The Ni**er Twins, Clark Kent was there......a lot of good dancers that I know of were dancing there. After a while the younger guys started coming in and they started doing all this acrobatic stuff. That's when it got too far for me. (chuckles)"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did the dance look like when you were doing it? I guess you were still dancing mainly on top?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, mainly on top. We might go down and do a flip but not like spinning on our heads. Nah, none of that. That came later on. I have seen young guys doing that. Nah, we would do things like The Pop-Up, The Robot.....something nice with the feet. Swinging the feet around and then fall down a certain way. Like that, you know? But not really the way the kids are flipping now. They're acrobatics now, you know?!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you have a specific B-Boy name?"

DJ B-WARD:"B-Ward they would call me. That was like my name as that. They would call me that, that would be short for Brian Warden. So they called me B-Ward. When I played football, when I played sports I wouldn't have the full name, I would have B-Ward on the shirt."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did other B-Boys accompany you to these parties?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, I went with a few friends, we would go.....but the ones I would go with they wasn't B-Boys like me, they was just going to the party, you know? At that time it was all about breakdancing for me, I was a B-Boy. Everybody would say, "Go off! Go off!" They always  wanted me to dance 'cause they knew that's what I was doing at that time but they wasn't breakdancing. I grew up in the projects so you can imagine how many people I knew. Twelve buildings...so I knew everybody. When we would go to the parties we would go maybe nine, ten guys strong and out of them maybe one other guy was breakdancing but not so much, you know?! One guy I remember was CB (MC of the Rockwell Inc. Crew). He would breakdance now and then. A lot of times he would start it off for me. He would say, "I'mma start the party off!" He would start breaking and then I would follow behind."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So during which years were you active as a B-Boy? 1975 to 1977?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, it were no MCs then. No MCs at all. I didn't hear no raps then. Nobody was rapping then it was just the music playing." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, and when exactly did you start DJing? 1977/78?"

DJ B-WARD:"Around '78....around that time. I was like in and out of high school. At the end of high school I was trying to play my music. So yeah it was around that time."

May 2nd, 1980: Rockwell Inc. performs at Randy's Place in Harlem along with The Shining Stars

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the process through which you build up your soundsystem and your record collection! I guess it involved a lot of money that had to be spent?" 

DJ B-WARD:" Oh, the record collection....... you just accumulate it. You buy records little by little as the money comes in and it's the same with the speakers and the rest of the equipment. You do a party here and make some money and use it to build up your sound system. When I was doing it Kevie Kev had equipment, too. He came along, he had stuff so we put everything together and that made it more and as you go along you buy as you go along. If you feel you need to do something to make your performance better you do that. We put lights, bright lights to entertain the people. You maybe wanna buy that little ball that when the light hits it, it has these spots on the floor.  You wanna surprise 'em, so you do what you have to do. It costs money, it's not free but you have to sacrifice like anything else when you want something."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. Who came up with the name Rockwell Inc.?"

DJ B-WARD:"I'd say my friend CB...Clarence....one of the MCs that was down with me. He came up with the name, "Let's call it Rockwell!" And Suzette was there and one guy named Darren.....Crazy Dee and one other MC was with us.... I don't remember his name right now but anyway CB came up with the name....Rockwell Incorporation and from there we just kept the name."     

MC CB of the Rockwell Inc. Crew

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the main stomping ground of your group?"  

DJ B-WARD:"Well, we would rock in Marble Hill Park every chance we can get, when they allowed us to because that's where we grew up at. So we would just bring our equipment out, plug it in a lightpole and play our music. Marble Hill Park...it's one side of the projects with nine buildings, on the other side it's two and that's where the big park is. It was like a baseball field and there is a church right there.....St. Stephen's Church. That's the park where we would always set up in because it's so much room. So if a lot of people came they had the room to dance or whatever they needed to do and you have a lot of fences, a lot of people would climb up on the fences to see what we were doing."   

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were there ever any incidents where people would try to stick you up for your equipment in the park?"

DJ B-WARD:"No, we didn't have problems like that because the people I was with.....I grew up in the projects...  a lot of the guys that came with us they were crazy anyway so they made sure nobody bothered us. We had nobody robbing us. Nah!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how the MCs of your crew were recruited! Did CB pick them or did they have to audition in front of you?"

DJ B-WARD:"Well, CB was the closest one to me. We always hung out. Like I told you when we were breakdancing he was the only one that was breakdancing with me. He was more with me than anything.  He was always there so everytime I was playing my music he was rapping. He didn't have to audition to become a part of the crew because he was already down with me."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have been told by that your MC squad also had a female MC by the name of Lady Suzette who was the best female MC of the West Bronx."

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, she used to MC, she would come by and MC. She was good, she grew up with us also. She lived in like a building next to mine."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Ok, so besides CB, Crazy Dee and Lady Suzette you also had Lil Dee and Kool Dee in your crew. How did they join Rockwell Inc.?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, I remember them. They came in, they rapped. Like I told you at that time I was looking for good MCs, people that could really do their thing and at that time I ran into Lil Dee and I said, "Come to the house! I wanna hear you rapping, let me see what you got!" And he rapped. I said, "Whenever I play you're coming with me!" He would do rehearsals with us and that's how he got in, you know? I brought him in because I liked the way he was rapping and everybody else liked him, too. So nobody had no conflicts, we all was good."

November 7th, 1980: The Rockwell Inc. Crew is rocking at John F. Kennedy High School along with DJ Red Ski (RIP) and DJ Prince

SIR NORIN RAD:"You also had one MC by the name of Ronnie Ron that died very young, is that correct?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, he passed away but he wasn't really in the group, he just lived in my building. He was more on a solo tip. He would rap but he would rap with anybody, you know? By him being close to me in the same building I said, "Come on, let's do our thing!" You know?! And a couple of times he would come down and we would rock. We would do different parks together.....Cedar Park. We would go out there, set up and we would rock. The crowd would be there, when I finished rocking I looked up and I'd see everybody all around and I'd be like, "Wow!!!""

DJ Kevie Keve Rockwell & MC Ronnie Ron (RIP)

SIR NORIN RAD:"So who exactly were the MCs of Rockwell Inc.? CB, Lady Suzette, Lil Dee, Kool Dee...."

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, and Crazy Dee, he was with me. That was my crew right there but Ron he was like a freelancer. He would do parties here, parties there but not really with us." 

MC Crazy Dee (Rockwell Inc.)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, from what I have been told so far in the very beginning of Hiphop DJs used to play the whole song and so of course the B-Boys danced to the song in its entirety. They would really go off  though when the breakpart of the record set in......"

DJ B-WARD:"That's true." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"As time progressed Kool Herc would mix the breakpart of one song with the breakpart of another song......like Clark Kent said Herc would mix "Apache" with "Scorpio" and then take it back to "Apache" until one day he presented Herc with the second copy of "Apache" so he could keep that beat going."

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Still Herc and them weren't able to cut up the breaks in such a precise way as Flash would do later on after he had introduced various groundbreaking techniques to Hiphop. So my question is how did you become acquainted with the technique of the backspin? Was that shown to you by someone?"

DJ B-WARD:"I used to do pause button tapes with my man RC La Rock before I got myself two turntables. These pause button tapes are the same thing as if you put two turntables. You are trying to keep that beat going. That thing that came on my own, you know? That just came natural."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please explain what a pause button tape is?"
   
DJ B-WARD:" A pause button tape...you would have the music play on a turntable and you would only tape the beatpart of the song and before the song came back in you would pause it. Then you would spin the record back to the part where there is only the beat and you would tape it again and then you would pause it again. Then at the end you would have just only that beat playing on your tape, you wouldn't hear no singer none of that. So this was just like cutting up records, you know? This would be the same as two turntables and a mixer...the beat just keeps on going. That's how that came along. That's how I started." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So from producing these pause button tapes you were already familiar with the technique of spinning back records to the point where the beat sets in?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah. When you're young you experiment on different things and that's how that came along."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How much time would go into practicing your DJing?"

DJ B-WARD:"All the time!!!! All the time!!! As soon as school was out..... right to the music! I would come to my house, they (the Rockwell Inc. MCs) would play the music. I'm trying to do my own but the equipment was in my house so they would come and they wanted to rehearse. So I was like, "Let me finish my own then I can help you and rock with you."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Nice!"

DJ B-WARD:"And from there I'm rocking and rocking and that's it!!! All day long, all night long!! Hour after hour!! At daytime I would think about beats in my head that I wanted to cut up to make something out it. That was the life at that time!! (excited) We would go to a place called Downstairs Records. One guy.... he worked there....one young man and I would say, "You got any new beats here??"  So he would pull out a couple of records,"Check this out!" Boom! Then I would be, "Yeah, that was good! Somebody can rap to that!"  And from there that's what we would do.....go searching for different records. Wherever we could find beats we would go."

From left to right: DJ B-Ward (Rockwell Inc.) and DJ Charles

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please explain to the younger cats out here why DJs back then where so secretive about their beats?"

DJ B-WARD:"You wanted to save your good beats...... no one should hear them until you played them. Of course! That's your performance right there! You wanna provide everybody with the best beats only and at the same time you wanna come up with something new and that's how that have to go!!! You have to hide your certain songs. So when you perform you gonna say, "I'mma come out with this!" Especially if you're battling...you have to prepare for that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So which precautions did you take against other DJs finding out about the titles of the beats you were playing?"

DJ B-WARD:"I would cross out the title with a marker and then a lot of times I would put an arrow where my certain beats is at. This way I knew where it's at, you know? Yeah, I would mark the records because I didn't want nobody to see what I was playing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which other methods besides going to different record stores did you use in order to acquire new beats?"

DJ B-WARD:"Well, my parents always listened to music and a few records I did take from them (laughs) and then I had to buy another copy of that record, sometimes even two because every now and then one would be so old it would skip so I had to get two of the same."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"This is something that will never cease to amaze me. I'm talking about the fact that back then DJs couldn't just download their beats from the internet as many do today but really had to search for them plus they always needed double copies."  

DJ B-WARD:"You had to! You had to go to a lot of  different record stores and look and hope they had it. I remember back in the day I was going to this store, to that store hoping they had it. And this one didn't have it I said,"Let me check this store. Let me check one more store." And then you might find it at one store that had it in an old collection. Maybe for 1$! (laughs) You might find it there sometimes. But yeah you're looking for a record and you find it in a supermarket. They're selling the album and it's there on a rack maybe for 1$ or at that time 1.99$. Yeah!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you have a record boy back then? Someone that would hand you the records and also put them away when you were done with cutting up them up?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, yeah! A lot of times the MCs would help me with that. A lot of times before I would perform I would make sure I had my records set up already. Eight or nine records ready to play......in order..... in line, you know? What's gonna go first, what's gonna go second..I already had that planned, you know? And a lot of times when I had to put back my records I needed somebody to put them back in order so I wouldn't lose track. While you're DJing you wanna see the crowd and if they're not moving to this you gotta find something else that they move to. You know, you had to rotate. I had about six crates of records, you know a lot of records. We had trunks full of records!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you divide up the time on the turntables between DJ Kevie Kev Rockwell and you? Who was in charge of what? Who would DJ for the MCs?"

DJ B-WARD:"Well, we both were because if one gets tired the other one has to come on. A lot of times you're rocking and you don't wanna stay on the turntables because you wanna get a drink or something. Sometimes you need to walk around the crowd to say hello to your friends. Then you go back and do your thing. You don't wanna be on the turntables the whole night long. That's where it came in that I needed help, you know?" 
  
SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. I have been told by many people that you were one of the few DJs back then who actually managed to catch even those beats that only lasted for about 4 seconds. How did you do that?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, I would pick up the needle and catch it right away. Theodore used to that also." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Amazing! Did you also mark the beats on your records with stickers?"

DJ B-WARD:"Yeah, I would put a little mark where the beat was, yeah! So when I was switching records this helped me to find the break right away but when you are cutting up beats everyday you catch it anyway because you know it."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"I've noticed that Rockwell Inc. used to perform quite often at a spot called The Promenade. Could you please describe this place?"

DJ B-WARD:"That's where I met Derrick Miller (aka DJ Mr. Dee) and them. The Cold Crushers (not to be confused with the Cold Crush Brothers)....they used to rock down there. It was a big hall in the basement of a building. The name of that building was The Promenade. You would go down to the basement...M3 or M4...I don't remember...it's been a while....but there used to be a lot of space and we would decorate it and make it look like a club down there and we would charge people to come in. We played a lot at the Promenade and when it was warm during the summer we would rock outside and then the rest of the parties we would do wherever the people asked us to rock. The Renaissance Ballroom, The Skate Key...wherever they wanted us to rock we would go." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of relationship did you have with the Cold Crushers back then?"

DJ B-WARD:"We did some parties together at The Promenade. We became good friends because we lived in the same neighbourhood. We went to the same school, we all went along and matter of fact I remember Derrick (DJ Mr. Dee of the Cold Crushers) I asked him to do my flyers after a while because he did really good flyers. He had one guy....Dayton...I forgot his name his..but he used to make flyers for the Cold Crushers and I said, "Yo, get this guy to make some flyers for me!" I liked his flyers and he finally helped me out."

The Promenade

SIR NORIN RAD:"There is this one flyer which announces a battle between your crew and The People's Choice from Harlem. What do you recall about this battle? Who won?"

DJ B-WARD:"I would leave that up to the crowd. All I know is when I'm rocking, I'm rocking the best I can! The crowd later on they would discuss these battles like, "You did good! You really turned it out" or "The other crew was good, too. It was a tie!" This and that....We just did what we had to do. But yeah I remember TPC they were from 149 Street (in Harlem) I think. We would battle them now and then."

June 29th, 1979: Rockwell Inc. battles The People Choice at The Promenade

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your top five breakbeats?"   

DJ B-WARD:"Well, it's hard to tell because there were so many different beats that were nice. I couldn't tell you that right now. There was just so many beats...hundreds if not more."

SIR NORIN RAD:"DJ Kid Capri mentioned you as a huge inspiration of his. What do you remember about him?"


DJ B-WARD:"Well, Kid Capri.....he came up. I remember Kid Capri because I used to be up on Kingsbridge where he lived at. I used to go with a girl on his block and she had a brother and he was close to her brother. I would always see Kid Capri, he was always on the block. He also used to come to a lot of the parties but you know at that time when I was doing parties I would see him but when the crowd comes and you're behind the ropes and the crowd is on the other side you really don't know who's who because it's so many people. So you really lose track unless someone yells out your name and then you look and then you realize but other than that you don't know who's who. But I remember Kid Capri, he was very young and I remember when he started playing music and then he blew up! But at the time he was blowing up I was going out, you know?"



SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give some shoutouts at the end of this interview?"


DJ B-WARD:"Well I wanna give a shoutout to DJ Kevie Kev. He is still doing his thing. A big shout out to Kid Capri because we all go way back. I grew up with these guys. I'd like to give a shoutout to the whole crew...CB...everybody...Suzette.....Larry...all of them and everybody that was with me."

 

   

 


    

                                   Interview with MC Donald D (The Funk Machine)


                                                                       

                                                                

Donald D (The As-Salaam Brothers/Three The Hard Way MCs / The Funk Machine)

                                                                                                                                       

                                       
                                  conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany) 

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which area in the Bronx are you? I think you hail from Lambert Houses. Is that correct?"

DONALD D:"Right. Right. So basically Lambert Houses is in the South Bronx, probably a ten minutes walk to Bronx River Projects. Back then Lambert Houses they had some other legends that lived in that project complex like Sha Rock  from The Funky Four and Rahiem from The Funky Four /  Furious Five. Tony Tone from the Cold Crush also lived there." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"The legendary Style Writer Chain 3 is also from Lambert if I'm not mistaken."

DONALD D:"Yeah, and also there was another group called The M&M Crew which is like an unsung DJ crew that not too many people talk about. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"DJ M&M and his brother DJ Kool Joe."

DONALD D:"Right. Exactly! They lived right across the street from me. So yeah man, it was a lot of us young Hiphoppers in that project back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who inspired you to become a MC?"

DONALD D:"Well, basically I had no one inspiring me because I had not seen any MCs in the beginning. The only person I saw on the mic was Kool Herc and he didn't say any rhymes to make me inspired to wanna do it. So basically it was me going to a party that a friend of mine who I played basketball with had told me about. He lived in the Soundview Projects and he was like, "Yo, there's a party going on over there with this DJ named Disco King Mario." So I'd go to check out Mario and Busy Bee Starski was on the microphone. So he basically was the first MC that I heard actually saying rhymes over the beat in rhythm. So that's where my inspiration came from. I remember it to this day.... they used to have this thing called the local bodega which was a store on the corner....I ran to the store, asked the guy in the store,"Can you give me a paper bag?" 'Cause back then they didn't give you stuff in a plastic bag, they gave it to you in a paper bag. So he gave me a paper bag and I also got me a pencil and I basically wrote down everything I heard (Busy Bee) Starski saying. That was my introduction to rhyming. So when I did my first party I was saying Busy Bee's rhymes!"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you see DJ Mario and Busy Bee Starski at?"

DONALD D:"123 Park."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess this must have been around 1978/79, correct?"

DONALD D:"I think it was 1978. I have to go back and look at some of the flyers. I don't really remember."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what were your next steps towards becoming a MC? How long did take you to form your first crew The As-Salaam Brothers?"

DONALD D:"Me seeing Busy Bee is in the beginning of us starting the As-Salaam Brothers. I mean we're having this group called The As-Salaam Brothers and I'm rapping but not saying rhymes. I'm more like what I heard Kool Herc doing,"Yes, yes y'all! Clap your hands everybody!" I'm more like doing chants, nothing extravagant. So probably it could have been like a week later when my friend Andre asked me to go check out Mario. That's when I heard it (the rapping over a beat in rhythm) and then we would be coming up to our first party because up until then we didn't have any parties. We was just basically in DJ Rashid's house practicing, you know? He is cutting up beats and me and Easy AD is rhyming or whatever we called it at the time. We basically lied to Rashid, because he asked us,"Do you know how to rhyme?" and we said, "Yes!" And we had never done it (laughs)!!!  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did that name As-Salaam Brothers come from? As-Salaam is Arabic and means "Peace". Did you choose that name because you were Muslims?"

DONALD D:"Nah, I wasn't no Muslim, none of us was Muslims. Now I'mma tell you how this name came about!  First the name of this crew was The Hoe Avenue Crew which was the street where there was this boy's club.....basically the place where that big gang meeting took place to stop all the violence back in the days with The Black Spades, The Peace Makers, The Ghetto Brothers and all the other gangs.....basically Hoe Avenue is that street. So DJ Rashid lived on that street and he basically named his crew The Hoe Avenue Crew but now this is before me and Easy AD know him. It was him and he had his wife DJ Stephanie and a MC by the name of Frank Nitty.  During this time there was a guy that just hung out with the crew who was studying Muslim things and he came up with the name The As-Salaam Brothers. His name was Dave. So basically when me and Easy AD came aboard the crew was already called The As-Salaam Brothers."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the As-Salaam Brothers ever get to perform outside on a regular basis?"

DONALD D:"Like I tell you, when I wrote down all Busy Bee's rhymes that would lead to our first jam which took place in this abandoned building. Many people saw this movie "Beat Street"...they know how they do these parties in buildings where nobody lives.....you know, we did the same thing. You put your extension cords together, get the power from the street lamp and we would set up in one room of this apartment. People would basically be dancing in another room. We could not actually see the people and I was back there rhyming Busy's lyrics off the paper while Rashid was cutting up the beat and then somebody called me out and said, "Yo, you're saying Busy Bee's rhymes!!!" and "You're a biter!" From that day on is when I started writing my own lyrics. To this day I could tell you the first rhyme I ever wrote. I sat on the stoops of my building and I wrote to some beat that Rashid was cutting up on a cassette. And the first rhyme I wrote was, "Dip dive recreate, there's not a MC that I imitate. Got my own style, my own rhyme to show that I can rock your mind! I'm not telling a tale or fantasy, I'm just Donald D from the top of the key. When I shoot the ball through the net, put your money on the table and place your bet! If you win, if you lose, if you lose or you win, don't forget you can do it again! So party people get in the groove as I rock to the beat, I do it smooth! 'Cause the microphone I rock, the money I got, from the bottom of the sea to the World Trade top. I'm a rhyme designer, the women finder, the virgin breaker, the money maker! Donald D rocking the house!" That's the first rhyme I ever wrote!"  
  
SIR NORIN RAD:" Nice! I must say that rhyme already sounds pretty advanced."

DONALD D:"I don't know, man! I just knew I had to try to come up with my own style and it's funny because I put that rhyme on a song for my "Let The Horns Blow" album called "The Way It Used To Be".

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. How long did the As-Salaam Brothers stay together and what was its main stomping ground?"

DONALD D:"I mean we didn't really have no stomping ground. We was kinda like gypsies, we roamed around wherever we could find a place to set up the soundsystem. I mean we basically stayed in that community in between 174th Street and 173rd.....Hoe Avenue, Vyse Avenue, Bryant Avenue. So they had empty lots where we would do jams in.....like I said...abandoned buildings. Now we did a few parties down like in an area called Freeman Street which was where the club The Dixie was at which is what they see in the movie "Wild Style" where they do the club scene. So we was doing parties down there and I remember that we did a party off Freeman Street and some stick up kids came in there and tried to rob the party and then one of our guys that was down with us named Stan pulled out his gun and once they saw the gun they ran. You know, we was just trying to get our name out there and as we were saying tried to do parties with the big-timers. We always looked at people like Bam & The Zulu Nation or Grandmaster Flash or The L-Brothers or Kool Herc and them or Breakout and Baron and them as the big-timers. We were still like way below all of them, we were just basically trying to pay our dues and earn our stripes. We almost thought we gonna get there when Easy AD and I saw Kool Herc walking down the street on Grand Concourse one day which we couldn't believe 'cause up until then we only saw him at his jams and we were always on the other side of the ropes. So to see Kool Herc approaching us was like...I guess it could be equivalent to somebody seeing Michael Jordan walking down the street in his heyday, in his biggest time ever and we basically asked Kool Herc if we could do a party with him.  He was like, "Okay, youngbloods! What's the name of your crew?" We gave him the name and he was like,"Yo, I'mma be doing this jam at this place called The Sparkle. I'mma put your names on the flyer!" So we was like,"Yeah!" and we would tell everybody that we were going to do this party with  Kool Herc. 'Cause one thing I always loved about Kool Herc.....he gave everybody a shot. He never felt like, "I have started this and I'm bigger than everybody!" He was like willing to put everybody on. He would let you present your art to the community. So we basically was gonna do this jam with Kool Herc but it never took place because the club burnt down before this jam could ever take place. So as As-Saalam Brothers we didn't have a long run at it, we probably did no more than 10 or 15 jams. And then it all came to an end when DJ Rashid decided that he was moving back to Jamaica with his family." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So DJ Rashid was a true Hiphop DJ? Digging for doubles and cutting up breaks?"

DONALD D:"Yeah. So this is how we met Rashid.... as I say we used to go to the Hoe Avenue Boy's Club and that was a place that kept all of us young ones off the street....it prevented us from getting into trouble 'cause back then you had all the street gangs and as you know some of these gangs had younger divisions. So we went to the boy's club and we played on the basketball team, we played baseball...whatever the boy's club had. You could swim, shoot pool, do arts and crafts. It was a lot of things going on in the boy's club. So DJ Rashid worked at the front door and basically you had to have a membership card to get inside this boy's club and on your membership card it had your number on it. And he sat at the front door with a sheet of paper that had every member's number, so when you walked in through the door he checked it off so that the people knew that you entered the facility. But he would be sitting there with this giant boom box with all these breakbeats playing, you know? "Apache", "Catch A Groove", "I Can't Stop", "Scratchin'" all the classic breaks at that time. A few times we just went in and he never said anything to us but then this one particular time he asked me and AD, "Do you guys know how to MC?" And we said, "Yeah!" So he was like, "Aight, come up to my house!" Which he lived right next to the boy's club. So a few days later we went up to his house and he was cutting up beats and he gave us the mic. Like I said we didn't have no rhymes we were just going by what we had heard, "To the beat, y'all! Rock rock, y'all! Clap your hands!" That was the start of our hiphop journey, man!" 

Easy AD & Donald D (The As-Salaam Brothers)

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have seen a couple of flyers featuring DJ Afrika Islam and his partner, the late DJ Ed La Rock (RIP). The name of their crew is listed there as The Mayberry Crew. Were they still called The Mayberry Crew when you joined them?"

DONALD D:"No. Aight, so this is how this came about and I'mma first tell you a story about Ed La Rock. Ed La Rock went to elementary school with me but I never knew he was a DJ after that. After elementary school we didn't see each other no more 'cause you had to go to junior high school and all of that. I didn't even know he was a DJ till years later after I got down with Afrika Islam and them. So as this story unfolds I told you Kool Herc wanted to put us on this party..... the club burns down it doesn't happen. At that same time  DJ Rashid's family is moving back to Jamaica and he goes with them. So now we are not in no group.....me and Easy AD! So basically I was just doing nothing but in Lambert Houses there was a community center and there would be DJs in there playing music. I can't remember if it was the M&M Crew playing that night or if it was a guy from my building named Rod but I happened to be in that community center rhyming that day and there was this girl named Kim Anderson hanging out there. She was from my building, she actually lived on the floor above my apartment and she heard me and she was like, "Man, you're really good! You sound good!" and I was like, "Thank you!"  So then she was like," I want to introduce you to my boyfriend." And I was like, "Who is your boyfriend?" And she was like,"Afrika Islam." Now I had seen Afrika Islam going into the building before but I never knew he was going to see her. I saw him but I was too intimidated to say anything 'cause I always looked at him as one of the big-timers. He was part of the Zulu Nation!  I had already seen some of their parties when I went up to the Boston Secor Community Center and I saw him when they were known as The Mayberry Crew. He had a MC called Ell-J rhyming on the mic. So basically she said she wanted to introduce me to him. I meet him and he tells me,"Aight, why don't you come and try out for my group?" So I tell him, "No, I got another MC that rhymes with me named Easy AD." So he was like,"Aight, both of y'all come!" So we go the next day to DJ Superman's house which was a short walk from where I lived and we go in this house and go down to the basement and down in the basement is Afrika Islam. Once I got in there I was like shocked 'cause I saw all these big speakers and everything and I was like, "Yo, these speakers look like the ones I was seeing in Bronx River Center!" 'Cause I didn't know they was building this stuff themselves. So in the basement was Afrika Islam, DJ Jazzy Jay and DJ Superman. So we go down in there and DJ Jazzy Jay is on the turntables and he puts on "Seven Minutes Of Funk" and they basically ask me to rhyme and I'm rhyming, going off, saying whatever rhymes I can say. After I rhymed they asked Easy AD to rhyme. After we rhymed they told us to go outside....I guess they were having a little discussion. Then they called us back in and they was like, "Ok, we like you but we don't like him." So they basically liked me but they didn't like Easy AD. So my whole thing was like, "Yo, let's go, AD! We're out!" So he basically told me, "Yo D, this is your chance to get down with a known crew! Do it!" I was like, "How come y'all can't put AD in the group, too?" And they was like,"Nah! We're only looking for one other MC, we already have two MCs." Which was Kid Vicious and Ell-J. But I'm thinking like,"Well, there are other groups that have four MCs!" The Funky Four had four MCs, there was The Furious Four in the beginning and whatnot. So I was thinking like,"Why can't they put Easy AD in the group?" But AD was like,"Yo, just do your thing, man!" It was the unknown for me because now I was thinking,"I'm getting down with people I don't even know." But then they embraced me, you know? Ell-J welcomed me into the group 'cause actually he lived right near to where I lived in Lambert. So that made it easy for us to get around. So next thing you know I'm getting down with the crew. So basically when I got down with the crew was kinda when they shifted the name from The Mayberry Crew to The Funk Machine."  

April 7th, 1978: DJ Afrika Islam & The Mayberry Crew are rocking at the Boston Secor Community Center in the Bronx

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Bronx was Kid Vicious?"

DONALD D:"Kid Vicious was more on the Westside (of the Bronx). He was over there....Webster Avenue.....between Webster Avenue and Grand Concourse. So he would be more in that Kool Herc territory, not far from the P.A.L. where we did a lot of parties. It was funny because I was intimidated by them because I thought that they were more advanced than me because they were more experienced than me obviously. They had already done all these parties way more than me. Plus they were also on stage with Pow Wow and Mr.Biggs and Lisa Lee and all of them. So they had a lot more experience than me but they welcomed me with open arms and basically showed me the ropes and I fit in. We sat down, we would write routines and all of that, man."   

The legendary MC Kid Vicious (Three The Hard Way MCs /The Imperial Four/ The Funk Machine)

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you join Afrika Islam and his crew?"

DONALD D:"That was about late '78 going into '79."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where would the MCs meet up at in order to come up with routines and to rehearse? Would you meet up at DJ Superman's house or at DJ Afrika Islam's house?"

DONALD D:"We were doing both. Either at DJ Superman's house or at Afrika Islam's house 'cause now Afrika Islam lived in a community called Parkchester. We all basically lived in the same community. If you're going to the other side of Tremont you're in the community called Mayberry which was where they all started. So we would rehearse in Afrika Islam's house and make up routines. You know how MCs did it when you listen to the Cold Crush Four or The Force MCs. You kinda take stories..it could be from a commercial, it could be from a TV show. I remember we took one that was part of the TV show "Giligan's Island". We did it in a harmoninizing way and it used to go,"Just sit right back and you hear a tale, tale of some old school raps that started in the Boogie Down. We're taking you way way back! Kool Herc and the Mighty Herculords were the first to show us the way. Afrika Bambaata, Zulu Nation, DJ Jazzy Jay" and on and on and on.  So yeah that was one of the routines we did and we took Shananananana Anananana Eeeheeeeheeeehh Funk Machine!!! So we had little routines back and forth that we used to do, man! Little dance routines also..We were just trying to make our niche in that community back then because at that time you already had Rahiem as part of the Furious and they were on top of their game. They had set the standard. I was at the jam when they did "Flash is on the beatbox".......the original version....at Bronx River Center and that took us to another level! Seeing them doing,"Just stepped in the party.....", just them doing all of that! Rahiem could sing! They had it down!! So we was like, "Man, we have to step up our game!" Then you also had the Funky Four Plus One doing their thing after Lil Rodney Cee and Jazzy Jeff got in the group. Jeff and Rodney used to be at the boy's club playing basketball with us. You know, I remember the Ni**er Twins coming up in the boy's club playing basketball.....I also saw Waterbed Kev and Master Rob from The L-Brothers playing basketball there. I remember seeing them.....funny story....at 63 Park and I went and I was like, "What?!" 'cause I remembered Kevin (Waterbed Kevie Kev) from playing basketball at the boy's club. When I saw them I was shocked. They was kinda like the second wave of MCs that I saw. After Busy Bee I saw the L-Brothers. My high school was right down the street where (Grandwizard)  Theodore lived and then Keith Cowboy (from The Furious Five) lived right across the street from the main entrance of my school. It was funny 'cause when I used to go to school in the morning I'd be seeing Mele Mel and Kid Creole and Cowboy and them standing right in front of the building. I didn't know them at the time. Basically I was like,"Damn! Those dudes are the big-timers!" Going back to the As-Salaam Brothers days...'cause I left this out. We were supposed to do a jam at this place called The Black Door. So we basically gave out our flyers which said that we were going to be performing at this club The Black Door. So the night of the jam the owner said we couldn't do the party. We were like,"Why???" He said, "'Cause Grandmaster Flash is having a party." So basically their manager Ray Chandler kicked us out of the place and put them. So we was thinking, "We gave out all these flyers so the people that are coming to the club they are coming to see us!" (laughs) So I remember standing there on the other side of the rope watching them. Me and Easy AD we were mad, man!  I was mad to the point where I started talking crap to Mr. Ness. At the time I was like, "Y'all ain't even that good!" I 'm telling Mr. Ness this story, "One day we gonna be better than y'all and you gonna need my help!" But watching them I got a full education on how to become a MC 'cause each one of them gave me something different. Kid Creole showed me the art of rocking the echo chamber. Cowboy gave me the technique of how to rock the crowd....get them involved. Mele Mel showed me how to be complex with the rhymes and then Mr. Ness...and also Cowboy...they were the first to show me how to make the rhyme into a story. I remember seeing Caz one time before he was with the Cold Crush when he was just Casanova Fly.....DJing and MCing...he did a rhyme about Jaws, about a shark and I was so intrigued with that story! But then when I heard Cowboy say the rhyme about the mouse on the hill.....He said,"There was a little mouse that lived on a hill. She puffed the joint like Buffalo Bill until one day I went for a ride with my echo chamber by my side." So he was the first that I heard say a story that made me visualize more than hearing somebody bragging about himself or jump in the O.J. whatever whatever... So basically I got educated that night that we didn't get to do this party. I learnt all these different techniques to become a MC."   

SIR NORIN RAD:"When you joined Afrika Islam's crew the name of the MC squad was Three The Hard Way MCs, is that correct?"

DONALD D:"Right. Yeah, that was the name that Afrika Islam gave us to identify us within the group. He took it from the "Three The Hard Way" movie back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's what I was about to ask you 'cause I got the soundtrack to this movie which was done by The Impressions after Curtis Mayfield had left them...."

DONALD D:"Right. He gave us that name, man! Afrika Islam always had a vision of different things to incorporate within us and he told us about the technique of passing the mic around....everybody say a part... which he had also learnt from The Furious. I'm pretty sure The Furious got that idea from listening to groups like The Temptations.....going back to songs like "Ball Of Confusion" where each member is saying one part...the five of them...and at the end everybody come in together. So we basically incorporated that technique and we were just there doing all these parties, man." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"There is this clip of The Temptations on youtube where they are performing "Papa Was A Rollling Stone" on Soul Train. It's amazing to see them doing all these choreographed steps and hand gestures..."

DONALD D:"That was the blueprint of being showmen on stage for the first generation of MCs. We had to rehearse, man!! It wasn't like today. Now you can just make a record in your bedroom and just go on the stage and have no experience and don't need to know how to really perform. We rehearsed many, many days, man! We would just perfect our technique and you could see when The Furious 5 did their parties back then or The Fantastic 5 or The Cold Crush Brothers or The Force MCs......everybody was on point. Even The Funky 4......there was no half stepping when it came to showmanship on stage." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess the members of the MC squad were expected to show up on time and to really work hard during those rehearsals?"

DONALD D:"Yeah, 'cause you know a group could be hard if not everybody is on the same page.  You see within a lot of the early groups the sense of unity eventually vanished because of various reasons. A group is the hardest thing to keep together, man! In my house my mom played The Temptations, James Brown, Sam Cooke. Even as a kid my mother took me and my brother to our first concert. We saw James Brown, The Temptations and Jean Knight at The Apollo back in the 1970ies. This is when Dennis Edwards was the lead singer of The Temptations. So I got to see first hand all the movement on stage and this was even before I thought about being in any music group."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the main stomping ground of the Funk Machine Crew? Was it Bronx River Center?"

DONALD D:"Yeah, basically the same places that Bambaataa did jams we were there and I have to put this in there because when I spoke about all the MCs that gave me the education I forgot to mention Pow Wow. He also played a big role. Love Kid Hutch, Lisa Lee, Sundance (RIP)....they all played a big part at that time. Watching them, checking out their techniques.....all that educated me. So we basically played in Bronx River Center, The Webster P.A.L., The Ecstasy Garage, Boston Secor...you know, places uptown. The Stardust Ballroom...we was all over the Bronx. We even went out to Queens and did parties with The Disco Twins. You know, we was up in Manhattan. Wherever there was a party we was there, man!"

February 16th, 1980: Afrika Islam & The Funk Machine are rocking at the Ecstasy Garge along with DJ Rockin Rob & The Mean Machine

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about the parks? Was there a specific park where you would play at regularly?"

DONALD D:"We did a lot of parties at 118 Park, 129 Park.......123 Park...that's outside of Bronx River Center...we did a lot of jams there. Basically we was all over. We went trough many changes though. When we were The Funk Machine we later on added a fourth MC and changed the name of the MC squad from Three The Hard Way to Imperial Four."

SIR NORIN RAD:"You're talking about Elroy, right?"

DONALD:"Yeah, with Elroy in the mix. Elroy was a guy who worked at the Downstairs Records Shop. I think that's where Afrika Islam actually met him on one of his journeys to go and find vinyl with Bam and Jazzy Jay. So we brought Elroy in the mix. Caz even got down with us for a little bit 'cause he was one of those roaming MCs. He would just come and get down. This is way before the Cold Crush became known. If you go back to the original Cold Crush Four Caz wasn't in that group. They started with Whipper Whip and Dot-A-Rock (RIP) and two other guys along with DJ Charlie Chase. So Caz and J-DL came a little later 'cause remember they were The Notorious 2 and before that Caz was with DJ Disco Wiz. So Caz also got down with us for a little bit, you know?"

Elroy & Afrika Islam ( The Funk Machine)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the style of each MC of the Imperial Four as well as the role that each MC had within your squad! J-DL of the Cold Crush 4 told me that in his crew he was in charge of getting the crowd hyped up and that Easy AD was like the pretty boy who had all the girls screaming for him...."

DONALD D:"He was the girl taker, he became Prince Of The Hiphop." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yes, and Caz was their super lyricist. So please describe the role of each MC within the Imperial Four!"  

DONALD D:"Well, Kid Vicious was our motivator. He would set it off, get the crowd involved. Kid Vicious had this unique voice, man!!! He was that,"I'll start and get everything popping!" You know, shouting out Islam,bigging up the DJs and everything and then Ell-J was more of that smooth MC. You know,"Ell-J rocking on to the break of day!". And then I was more of like that storytelling MC. I always incorporated my sport into my rhymes...just little things like that...and I would just tell a story.....either facts or fiction. Then later on when Elroy came in, he basically just fitted in. 'Cause then when he came in we kinda split up. When we did routines on stage we'd split into two groups. Elroy would be with Kid Vicious and me and Ell-J would be together. Then we would all come together. At that time Afrika Islam and Jazzy Jay were the first DJs to do tagteam routines together on stage. They were doing routines that were way ahead of their time. No other DJs at that time were doing what they were doing 'cause most crews didn't have two DJs that was really good. If you look at Flash...yeah he was Grandmaster Flash but then you had EZ Mike and Disco Bee. They didn't get on at prime time and play. Theodore was basically the main DJ of the L-Brothers. You had Mean Gene and Cordie-O but Theodore was the main attraction of that group. So with us Jazzy and Islam were great when they would do these routines together, man.  I always thought Jazzy Jay was ahead of his time. I just used to love his DJing at the parties especially when he cut up songs like "Bustin' Loose". Some of his mixes.... I'd be like,"Man, this dude is incredible!"

The legendary MC Ell-J (Three The Hard Way MCs/ The Imperial Four/ The Funk Machine)

SIR NORIN RAD:"What exactly was the role of DJ Superman within your group? I've heard that he helped to build up Afrika Bambaataa's soundsystem but he wasn't exactly that type of DJ that would cut up breakbeats at the parties, was he? What kind of music did he play?"

DONALD D:"He was more like a Disco DJ. He'd probably throw on some disco. He would be playing when people were showing up at the party, coming to the place. But Superman was the architect of the soundsystem. All this stuff was being built in his basement. So he had that knowledge to build the speakers, get the amps together. So he was our soundsystem man. He played that part. He was more what EZ Mike and Disco Bee were to Grandmaster Flash." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like to perform as a MC at Bronx River Center for the first time?"

DONALD D:"That was the first time I ever did a party with Afrika Islam and them as The Funk Machine. That was in Bronx River Center...outside....and I was scared to death because I had told a lot of my friends, "Yo, I'm gonna be having a jam in Bronx River Center!" They thought I was lying, they thought I was crazy because they was like, "Come on, man. Those guys are the big-timers!" They were like, "Yeah, yeah right." I went many times to Bronx River..like I said I was on the other side of the ropes looking up at that stage, watching  Pow Wow and Mr.Biggs and all of these guys gettin' down. So when I got there as a MC they welcomed me, man! I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that I was amongst all of these MCs..standing on the stage with all of them 'cause as you know back then in the Zulu Nation there was like a thousand MCs. So once you said your rhyme you was not gonna get the mic   passed back to you for a while. That's why back then everybody said rhymes that were very long. There was no 16 bars, you did your whole arsenal of rhymes up until you passed the mic to the next MC and then you waited for your turn again, man. But then when you think those parties went on all night. It was not like a one hour jam. It would probably start at 8 and finish at 5 in the morning. I used to always like that. You know, sometimes we did parties where we made just enough money that we could go eat White Castle after the jam, man! It was fun, man! It was innocent." 

October 24th, 1980: Afrika Islam & The Funk Machine are rocking at the Ecstasy Garage along with Touch Of Class

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also become a member of the Zulu Nation when you joined the Funk Machine?"

DONALD D:"Yeah. So once I got into the Funk Machine I became a member of the Zulu Nation. Now I'mma tell you a funny story though it wasn't funny at the time.... The area where The As-Salaam Brothers were from was more like the turf of The Peace Makers and being that gangs were basically over but there was still some claiming the name...like The Fun City Peace Makers and so on. So basically when we broke up as the As-Salaam Brothers and I got down with Zulu they were basically like, "Yo, you ain't allowed around here!" 'cause they didn't really like each other. And the crazy thing is that my girlfriend at the time lived in that area on Bryant Avenue. I remember one night I was leaving her house and I always used to cut up Hoe Avenue to walk back towards Lambert. So this particular night I walked 173rd Street, past the boy's club, past Hoe Avenue and I remember looking to my right and I'd see police cars and an ambulance and I just kept walking and I was like,"Man, what happened!?" So I found out the next day that one of my friends that I grew up with and who was basically kinda like security of the As-Salaam Brothers group got shot and died. So I was like,"Man!!!" From then on I was just a member of the Zulu Nation."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you have to go through a special initiation process to join the Zulu Nation?" 

DONALD D:"Well, initiation......my initiation was that I was down with Afrika Islam. Whatever initiation they had prior to that I don't know nothing about.  You know, I would just go to the meetings every now and then. It wasn't like I went to all of them. I was more part of the Zulu Nation on the music side. Whatever took place with the guys that were part of the gang life or the security I never really mingled with none of them. I would see them at the party and I would know who Spider was, who Monk was.....you know, B.O. and all of these dudes. You know, Smitty.....Smitty was the guy who rocked the echo chamber for us. If you go back and listen to all those Zulu or Funk Machine tapes, you always hear,"Smitty is on the echo!" He actually controlled the echo chamber as we were rhyming on stage. Whatever was the bad side of Zulu I never was part of that, man."     

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of things were discussed in those Zulu Nation meetings?"

DONALD D:"History lessons, things to uplift the community...you know, keeping everything in a positive light to get the kids off the street whether they were into drugs, crime or their family didn't have enough money to eat. Just basically uplifting the community. It took a whole shift from what originally was.....from the Black Spades to the Organization to where it became a positive image of just partying and  having fun and bringing peace within the community."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Kimba from the Infinity Four once showed me a flyer dating back to December 1979....."

DONALD D:"At the P.A.L?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yeah, exactly. Was that some type of competition?"

DONALD D:"Yeah! To this day Kimba and D.St don't own up to it that we smashed them that night.  We smashed them! I'm telling you. Lyrically they couldn't compare to me, Kid Vicious and Ell-J. Shahiem was good but they were not.....I don't think...on our level, man. I mean D.ST was an incredible DJ as we all know but Afrika Islam and Jazzy Jay were also great at that time, so I don't think he had the advantage. But they won't admit it. I wish I could find the tape, man!"

October 6th, 1979: Afrika Islam & The Funk Machine are battling Grandmixer D.St & The Infinity Squad at the legendary Webster P.A.L. in the Bronx

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please explain to the people out here in Europe how original DJ/MC battles went down?"

DONALD D:"Basically it was based on the routines that the MCs were doing. You may have some stuff in your rhyme that is talking about that crew that you're going against 'cause I think we had one party....I think there is a tape out...we did a party at Bronx River Center against The L-Brothers and we did a routine......an Apache routine that was directed towards Master Rob, Kevie Kev and them. Kid Vicious was kinda like the bandleader and then me and Ell-J was coming in with the routines and Afrika Islam was doing this Apache cutting in and out against them. So basically that's how you did it, you did routines. Like if you go back and listen to the night when the Cold Crush 4 battled The Fantastic 5 at Harlem World, basically that's how it was. We did routines like that. It was also based on whose soundsystem was the loudest. So basically if you battled Kool Herc you would lose because he had a soundsystem that was very loud at that time. I also think that when we did that party in Bronx River against the L-Brothers our soundsystem was way louder than what the L-Brothers had. We were on the main stage and they was set up down where the people where, but to the right of the stage... . Those were good times, man!"

October 19th, 1979: DJ Afrika & The Funk Machine are battling against The L-Brothers at the Bronx River Center. 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe your process of writing rhymes back then!"

DONALD D:"A lot of them I wrote with no music. Just sitting in my bedroom, looking out my window. Just writing....but then a lot of them I wrote where Afrika Islam would give me a cassette tape of him cutting up breaks and I would just sit and write. But when we did routines like as the group we did it all together. We would be at Afrika Islam's house in his bedroom and coming up with routines....sitting up in there. I tell you another thing even back then I would still get down with other groups. Like help some of the DJs and MCs that were in my community. Like later on I was in the group called The Mark V MCs....."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Master Tee's group......"

DONALD D:"Yes, that was Master Tee's group and then who started out with them....that came ouf their camp was Just Ice and they were part of DJ Kenny Ken."

SIR NORIN RAD:"The K-Connection."

DONALD D:"Right. So that's that area, so I was down with Master Tee and Raydeen and all of them on that side. Then over by the boy's club I was with The Fabulous Five." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"At the beginning of our interview you mentioned a lady by the name of Kim Anderson...."

DONALD D:"Yeah, so Kim Anderson...it's funny there is some footage of her....there is a scene  I can't remember which movie it's from but there's a scene where there is Sha Rock and Lisa Lee rhyming back and forth together. No music they're just rhyming  and Kim is there with them. So Kim was always there, hanging out with Sha and Lisa. She played a big part. Her name was Taste back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's what I wanted to ask you about whether Kim Anderson was known as Taste. Cholly Rock told me about a B-Girl from Lambert that went by that name...."

DONALD D:"Yeah, exactly. That's her. Like I said she was the girlfriend of Afrika Islam and she introduced me to him."

Zulu Queen Taste

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you remember of the time in Hiphop when there were no MCs, when it was still all about the DJs and the B-Boys at the jams?"

DONALD D:"Yeah, I mean going to Herc's parties. Like I said there was nobody really MCing so yeah I saw like the Ni**er Twins gettin' down there and then later on when I went to Bam's parties I would see like the Zulu Kings gettin' down. I'm talking about before I'm knowing Afrika Islam I'm seeing him dancing, I'm seeing D.St gettin' down. You know Cholly Rock and all of these dudes. There was a whole generation before the Rock Steady Crew and all of these guys that was gettin' down, man."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please name your top five breakbeats to rhyme to!"

DONALD D:"First and foremost "Apache" (by The Incredible Bongo Band). I get on that and say my rhymes and say the "Ikey and Mikey" rhyme. Bob James "Take Me To Mardi Gras". "Catch A Groove" (by Juice),  "Seven Minutes Of Funk" (by The Whole Darn Family), "Funky Drummer" (by James Brown) and I gotta throw in "Impeach The President" (by The Honey Drippers). Also "Kool Is Back" (by Funk Inc.)......ah man, that could be up there at the top of the list, too."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that Afrika Islam benefitted from the fact that one of his MCs namely Elroy worked at Downstairs Records?"

DONALD D:"Yeah, I mean but they would go in there before Elroy was even working there. They were out record hunting everywhere. I been on some record hunts with Islam and Jazzy Jay they were just basically going any and everywhere digging for records. But yeah they probably did benefit from Elroy because he probably either always gave them records for free or sold them at a real good price."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When the MCs got together with the DJs to plan a show how would the process of selecting beats go down?"

DONALD D:"Islam would basically come out and he would say, "You know, you guys rhyme over "Apache"when we throw it on. Okay, let's make a routine to this beat!" Now remember how we did it where me and Ell-J would go,"Funk Machine is on the scene, known to make the ladies scream!" Afrika Islam would cut in BOOM BAP BOOM BOOM BAP......Then we would say, "We got three DJs going all the way: Islam, Superman and Jazzy Jay!" We would basically make up routines according to the breakbeats that Islam and Jazzy Jay came up with."


SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn! So who was the captain of the Three The Hardway MCs / Imperial Four MCs?"

DONALD D:"Like Grandmaster Caz was the captain of the Cold Crush? Kid Vicious....he was more like the captain of the group." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"The younger generation out here is not aware of the various challenges which MCs had to face back then when they were rocking in the parks with their DJs. How would you handle such critical situations as the skipping of the needle or stick up kids robbing cats in the crowd?"   
   
DONALD D:"To go to the first part when the record would skip...basically we learnt how to keep it going whether you still keep on rhyming or you just get the crowd going,"Throw your hands in the air and wave'em like you just don't care!" and then Afrika Islam or Jazzy Jay would come right back in on whatever you're saying. You know, they would just bring it right back in. So we would never..... like I see a lot of artists in recent years...something happens on stage they panic and either they stop rhyming or they get mad at the DJ and whatnot and I be like,"Yo, you as a MC...Master Of Ceremonies....you should know how to do it!" I see a lot of today's artists don't have that technique because they have never been in parties to either practice it or learn how to do it. Like I said today's rappers they can make a hit in their bedroom and never been on stage or at a party ever. They get on stage and don't really know how to perform. With us we learnt how to really MC. As for the stick up kids..yeah, they were there, man. I mean at our parties there was no guns being drawn. Zulu Nation's whole thing was, "Come In Peace Or Leave In Pieces!" So there wasn't that much violence going on. I was lucky that I never got any of my stuff taken back then whether I was wearing Adidas or Pumas or Pro-Keds or a Cortefiel Coat or any of that.  I never got stuck up for any of my stuff but they were there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Out of all the numerous MCs that were down with the Zulu Nation ranging from The Soul Sonic Force all the way to The Devastating Four who were your top 3?"

DONALD D:"Oh, my top 3? 1. Donald D 2. Donald D 3. Donald D."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Alright." (laughs)

DONALD D:"Nah, I'll tell you. Now my top 3 is Pow Wow, Lisa Lee and Sundance (RIP). Those are my top 3, man."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give any shout outs at the end of this interview?"

DONALD D:"Man, I just give shout outs to basically all the guys that I started out with: Easy AD and Rashid. All the Funk Machine: Islam, Superman, Jazzy Jay, Kid Vicious, Elroy, Ell-J. All the people I worked with pre records. Also Bam back in the day, man. I wanna thank you for your time, man, and all that you do. Put all these interviews out there with some of the unsung heroes that many people don't know about or forgot about. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you! Shout outs to my crew the Intruders, Sureshot La Rock for all the flyers and Troy L. Smith!"