Interview wih B-Boy Amad (The Zulu Masters)

                                             Interview with B-Boy Amad The Zulu Masters)

B-Boy Amad (The Zulu Masters)

                                    conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where were you born and raised?"

AMAD:"I was born and raised in the Bronx. Most of my childhood I was raised up in Bronx River Projects. Yeah, I spent many years there growing up."

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's the Southeast Bronx, right?"

AMAD:"Yes, it's part of the Southeast Bronx." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"To what kind of music were you exposed as a child?"

AMAD:"Well, back in them days there was no FM radio. It was all AM radio and my mother used to play all types of music that was playing on the radio. So I grew up on Jazz, Blues, Country, R&B, Rock. I grew up on all of this stuff because my mother was playing everything. But our R&B growing up was like the Sam Cookes of the world. There were so many artists, so many artists. Our leaders back then were Martin Luther King, Malcolm X.....the list goes on. The whole Motown family, James Brown, George Clinton....you know, Parliament / Funkadelic. This was all part of my era of growing up as a kid. The Jackson Five, The Osmond Brothers..the list goes on."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were you dancing as a child already?"

AMAD:"Well, I grew up in a family that was church oriented and in the church we danced. So we used to dance around the house and everything. Me, my brother, my sisters. We danced around the house to the music and all that stuff and then you know we moved into Bronx River. I moved to Bronx River when I was like around 12, 13 years old. I went to school, met friends in the building that I was growing up in Bronx River Projects and we would start dancing. Just regular dancing, you know? We was having fun as kids, you know? That's how that went."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When were you born?"

AMAD:"I was born on December 30th, 1961."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please break down how the Zulu Masters were formed!"

AMAD:"Now this is what happened: Afrika Bambaataa would DJ with his speakers in the window in his apartment on the ground floor, a building across from mine and we would come out and start dancing. You know, the (Housing) Project would come out and start dancing. Because we also used to watch the movie "Zulu" we all came together and decided to call ourselves Zulu Kings, okay? Now dancingwise..myself, Kusa, Zambu, Aziz which was Artie J and Squirpy which was Shaka, Alvin Melendez which was Kashaka, Pee Wee which was Amin, Pow Wow...that's how we all met. Pow Wow didn't live in Bronx River but his brother and his aunt lived in my building so he would always be over there. Now we would dance inside the building and we would dance whenever Bam played music outside his window.  And we would just practice moves outside on the ground floor or in the building, in the lobby or on one of the floors. But then you also had Monk who did a lot of dancing also. It was more than just five of us but the five of us came together at a later time and we decided that we gonna call ourselves The Zulu Masters. That's when we started going to different talent shows. So instead of Zulu Kings we became the Zulu Masters. The reason why we became Zulu Masters wasn't  because of the talent shows but because we was like the top tier of the breakdancers of the Zulu Nation. I'm saying that because you also had Wade who was breakdancing and he auditioned to be a part of the Zulu Kings. We felt that he wasn't strong enough to be on that level. So Afrika Bambaataa told Wade,"Go start your own thing!" And he did! And he called his group..which was like a second tier of us...Shaka Zulus. He built up a big breakdance crew! Now this group was supposed to have been set up to  develop B-Boys so that the Zulu Kings could later on recruit the best of them. Those who wanted to become Zulu Kings but weren't good enough they would have to go through the Shaka Zulus in order to develop their skills. So if you wanted to audition for the Zulu Kings we would check you out but that didn't happen like that. It was set up for that but it didn't happen like that. Wade build a strong Shaka Zulu crew and they was doing their thing. We was still on top but they was doing their thing. We would go everywhere breakdancing. We started in Bronx River. It was Afrika Bambaataa DJing and then we had Mr. Biggs and Queen Kenya on the microphone hyping the crowd and things started getting bigger and bigger. So we started having parties in the community center and in the schools. And then MCing started to come about. And that's how it really went. That's how things got started. You had Afrika Bambaata on our side of the Bronx, you had Grandmaster Flash in the South Bronx, you Kool DJ Herc on the west side of the Bronx.  We would all go to different events battling other breakdancers. "

                           

Movie poster "Zulu" (1964)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who or what inspired you to start B-Boying?"

AMAD:"You know, it just came naturally. I didn't watch no earlier breakdancers. What happened is we as  kids, you know, some of us was Baby Spades because we was young and the Black Spades would do their Spade Dance and all that. We would check it out and all that but we would hang out in the middle of the projects which we called "The Circle". Once Bam started playing the music out the window which went towards the Circle we would start dancing. Then we would start getting down on the floor and started doing stuff there. We didn't know we was creating. we were just doing things. Doing foot moves and everything. And then later on as we moved forward we added Cholly Rock to the Zulu Kings because we was Zulu Kings first, then we became the Zulu Masters and then we went back to being Zulu Kings. We brought Cholly Rock in because Cholly Rock came over with that crazy spin that he had when he hit the ground, you know? But we would go to other places battling other dancers. We was kicking ass all over the place! Everybody wanted to be a part of the Zulu Kings. Watching everybody else dancing and doing their thing we created our thing, our own style. It was no teaching involved when we created our thing. You would go off and what you felt you did. You know, whatever hit your spirit, your bones you did. And that's how we developed Breakdancing. And then we added Marcus Rockwell 'cause Pow Wow brought him to the table. He became a part of the Zulu Kings as well."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that the fame of the Zulu Masters was responsible for the rise of the Zulu Nation?"

AMAD:"Well, I was a leader..... not just skills on the floor but having that leadership in the neighbourhood. In other words I was famous in the hood. We were famous. The more we did, the bigger it got!  Like I said it started off with the Black Spades and it went from the Black Spades to the Organization. The Organization lasted a year.  Then we changed it over to Zulu Nation. Zulu Nation came about from watching that movie "Zulu". We adopted the name and we became Zulus in America. We started travelling and then later a whole lot of other DJs and MCees would start coming to our functions and getting on stage and doing their thing. So we developed the name Soul Sonic Force for the MCees of the Zulu Nation. The Soul Sonic Force was many MCees. It wasn't just Mr. Biggs, Pow Wow and MC G.L.O.B.E. It was many MCees. Just like the Zulu Kings was many dancers, you know? We topped it off at like around eleven or twelve Zulu Kings. Like I said we would go everywhere breakdancing.  Everybody..if you're in our age bracket..a little bit older or a little bit younger...you wanted to be a part of the Zulu Nation." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess the Zulu Kings and the Shaka Zulus must have encountered each other at parties long before that legendary battle which took place on May 27th, 1977 in JHS 123 since you both came from the same part of the Bronx. Did you ever battle before that aforementioned event and what kind of relationship did you have?"

AMAD:"Well, whenever we came together to party we was family no matter what. It's just that those that we didn't let into the Zulu Kings became Shaka Zulus. The Shaka Zulus had around 50 or 75 B-Boys. Now we would go to the same parties and we would all dance against each other. Our crew against your crew. That's how it was! But we was still brothers. But then you had other breakdancers that wasn't part of a named crew. They was just solo B-Boys. That includes people like Cleamont, Cooky and Sterl a.k.a. Lil Bambaataa. They came out of Bronxdale and they were down with DJ Mario. They was breakdancers and they don't get the recognition that they should be getting. Bronxdale was like a second home to us. Mario and them they was all family, too. We battled Cooky and them for fun. That's how that was. There was also Winston and Black. They was also B-Boys who was down with Mario. Winston was from Bronxdale and Black was from Soundview. So when it came to Wade and the Shaka Zulus....'yeah, we would breakdance against each other even before that battle which took place in 1977.  Cause the battles only made you better. That's what it did. If you lost you went home and practiced and you got it together. But we had fun! It was never any type of beef where we hated each other or wanted to fight each other. It was nothing like that. It was all about, "We're Family!"  When we battled it wasn't always like we battled  their whole crew. So we didn't beat all of their B-Boys in one battle. You may have beat one or two of their breakdancers. But overall out of all the battles we had, the Zulu Kings came out on top. I know Wade claims otherwise but we also defeated them in that famous battle at JHS 123."

May 27th, 1977: The Zulu Kings battle The Shaka Zulus at JHS 123 in the Bronx.

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did that battle go down? I was told that the Shaka Zulus were able to wear you out because they were larger in numbers and thus could send in one well rested B-Boy after another.... "

AMAD:"No, no, no!!It didn't go down like that. It's true they came with a large crew but they didn't wear us out. The music changed and we stopped breakdancing. You know, like the beats went away. They never beat us! No way!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, and so during that battle you were having the upper hand?"

AMAD:"Absolutely."

SIR NORIN RAD:"And it wasn't like you signalled Zambu who the DJ for that battle to change the music because you had run out of moves or had become too exhausted?"

AMAD:"No, we had no control over the music. We was in part of 123 and the DJ was in another area. The Zulu Kings never lost to the Shaka Zulus." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you remember about that battle which you and Cholly Rock had in 1977 against Eric and Donald of the Shaka Zulus?"

AMAD:"Well, I recall burning them. It was no real battle because they went up against the two nastiest B-Boys around. Cholly Rock and myself!!! (laughs)"

August 19th, 1977: Amad and Cholly Rock battle Eric and Donald from the Shaka Zulus in the Castle Hill Projects 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your B-Boy name back then? Was is it Amad or something else? Several B-Boys including the Puppetmaster told me that you were the original Crazy Legs."

AMAD:"Okay, the real name was Crazy Bowlegged Billy. I adopted the name Amad a little bit later. I picked the name Amad out of a book sitting with Bambaataa and everybody."

SIR NORIN RAD:" Cholly Rock told me that you had a signature move called "The Motorcycle". What did it look like and how did you come up with it?"

AMAD:"Oh ok, well during that time I created that move in a battle. I had run out of moves so I needed to do something else to win this battle. So I imagined there was a motorcycle and I would get on this motorcycle and start to breakdance on the motorcycle and ended up on the ground,you know, doing foot moves. I would put the whole motion in the motorcycle like gassing it up, pumping the brakes but wiggling at the same time, you know what I'm saying? And that became my signature move! So whenever I did that the people in the crowd would be like,"Oh shit! There it goes!!" Just like when Cholly Rock would breakdance his signature move was the spin.  And Shaka's signature move was when he jumped up in the sky and came down, hit the ground and go into some foot moves."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when you were B-Boying the dance had already evolved to the point where it was done mainly on the ground?

AMAD:"Yes!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you have to say to the claim that Black B-Boys didn't introduce footwork on the floor to B-Boying?"

AMAD:"That's bullshit. During our time it was about footwork on the floor and standup moves. It wasn't about Popping and Locking. We didn't have that during our time. It was all about footwork and standup moves. It was no gymnastic stuff during our time. When we danced it was all about having flavor. The footwork that we did you still see today but it came from us!!! But when you get into all this headspinning and all that stuff, we didn't do that. That became another level of breakdancing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"From where did you know the other four Zulu Masters?"

AMAD:"Well, we all lived in the same building except for one: Shaka. Shaka lived in the same building Bambaataa lived at. They lived in 1595. Then you had Monk who lived in another building. Two or three lived in another building but most of us lived in the same building. Like Zambu, myself, Kusa, Amin, Kashaka...we lived in the same building which is 1609.  That's how we all met. Zambu later stopped breakdancing and became DJ Afrika Bambaataa's DJ partner. He became DJ Afrika Zambu."

SIR NORIN RAD:"In which colors were the t-shirts of the Zulu Masters and the Zulu Kings?"

AMAD:"We had black and white and black and silver."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What type of clothes did B-Boys wear back in your era?"

AMAD:"It was Lees, but we also had stitches. Stitches was like nice black pants with stitches going up the side.  But when it came to Breaking we didn't care what we had on. Whatever you had on, you did it. We'd go to a party looking nice with a mockneck, stitches...everything matches from the top to the foot!!! Everything matches, you know? During that time Pro-Keds 69ers were the main footwear. That's what we came up with. Lee Bell-Bottoms...then it went from that to straighter legs in the late 1970ies. We was caught up in between the change of the sixties to the eighties in a way as far as clothes are concerned. We got our clothes from A.J. Lester's or Jew Man's.  A.J. Lester's and Jew Man's was the biggest names for the inner city kids back then."

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the Breaking style of Zulu King Kashaka!"

AMAD:"He was a standup breaker. He was doing standup moves, a lot of hand gestures, upper body moves. He wasn't a real floorhitter. He was that guy. I mean he would hit the floor every once in a blue moon but he was mainly a standup guy."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that Kashaka is still to be considered as a B-Boy even though he danced mainly on top?"

AMAD:"Oh yeah!! He had flavor! Everybody that was a part of the Zulu Kings had flavor! Even Amin which is Pee Wee he had flavor, you know? And he would do footwork on the ground. He was good but most of us had more skills when it came to footwork. Me myself I was a standup dancer AND a groundhitter. I did both. There were a lot of breakdancers back then. Even Melle Mel was a B-Boy before he became an MC. Clark Kent and the Ni**er Twins were B-Boys that were down with Kool DJ Herc. What made you stand out is if you had a creative move that nobody else had."

  

B-Boy Amin (The Zulu Kings)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how the breakbeats affected you when you were at a jam in Bronx River!"

AMAD:"It was like..we would be dancing regular and then when the breakpart came in that's when it started. People like Afrika Bambaataa and DJ Mario who had DJ Jazzy Jay at the time...once the breakbeat came in they would ride the breakbeat with other breakbeats. That gave us a lot of time to do our breakdancing and then after all of that we would go back to regular dancing with the females. In a way the whole party would turn into watching B-Boys."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were the main attraction of the party?"

AMAD:"Yes. There was one circle and everybody would turn to that one circle. Breaking was our release. We really enjoyed it. When we listened to the music it just took to us to another lane! It took us into,"Hit the floor!! Get funky! Tear shit up!" That's what the music did for us! Bambaataa also played Hustle music. After breakdancing we would go into the Hustle. You had

Boyo. He came out of our building, too. He was really good with the Hustle! Boyo!! I was a Hustle dancer but Boyo was better than me. So we had all avenues of dancing covered in the Zulu Nation. We had B-Boys and Hustlers."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were Afrika Islam and Jazzy Jay affiliated with the Zulu King B-Boys?"

AMAD:"Well, they wasn't Zulu Kings but they was affiliated with the Zulu Nation. Jazzy Jay was a DJ with Disco King Mario and then he switched over and he became a DJ with Afrika Bambaataa. Islam was a DJ and he adopted the name "Son of Bambaataa".  He lived in a place that we called Mayberry. His crew was The Mayberry Crew."

SIR NORIN RAD:"But didn't Islam start out as a B-Boy?"

AMAD:"Yeah, they both was."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your top 3 breakbeats?"

AMAD:"James Brown "Give It Up Or Turn It A Loose", "Apache" by The Incredible Bongo Band  and "The Mexican" by Babe Ruth." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Afrika Bambaataa is known as "The Master of Records" because he had a huge record collection and because he introduced so many breakbeats to Hiphop. Did you assist him when it came to crate digging? Would you help him moving his crates to the center?"

AMAD:"We did it all. We did everything. We would go record shopping downtown with him and we would be downtown from morning to almost night. Going to Downstairs Records, Rock & Soul....different record shops. We'd start in the fifties and end up in the Village picking up records. Carrying them on the train, coming back to the Bronx on the train. Bambaataa sorted out what he wanted. He listened to the records and once he heard that beat he would grab it. He even played cartoon songs that had a beat in it. When we would go to parties we would all carry Bam's equipment and the crates. We all did it. When you went to Bronx River parties you knew you was gonna have a good time and you knew you was gonna learn something because that's how we was, you know? Everybody would stay till 4 o'clock in the morning and just have a great time. After we finished up we would go to White Castle and order 100 burgers."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have seen your name listed on a flyer from 1978 were you are listed as DJ Afrika Amad. Does this mean that you were DJing also?"

AMAD:"Yeah, I was but I didn't follow it through. I was Breaking and DJing also but I was more into Breaking than into DJing. DJing...I don't claim it. I didn't do it for a long time. I got on the turntables for maybe two or three jams."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who showed you how to DJ? Was it Afrika Bambaataa or Afrika Zambu?"

AMAD:"Both did."  

October 7th, 1978: DJ Afrika Amad is rocking with DJ Mario, DJ Afrika Zambu and others at I.S. 167 in the Bronx.

SIR NORIN RAD:"B-Boys from West Bronx told me that it was always a dangerous undertaking to go to Bronx River and battle B-Boys from your hood..."

AMAD:"What they're telling you is true. Bronx River was tough. You had to be invited to Bronx River or you had to know somebody that brought you to Bronx River. We protected the neighbourhood. That's what we did. We protected our mothers and fathers because we respected our parents. I wasn't just a B-Boy I was all in one. I stayed at the door collecting money. I carried crates and equipment. Like I said I did it all." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the main stomping ground of the Zulu Kings? Where would you dance at?"

AMAD:"Bronx River was our first home. JHS 123 was our second home. If you wanted to see the Zulu Masters or the Zulu Kings do their thing you had to come to Bronx River Center. If we had nothing in Bronx River Center we would be in JHS 123. In the winter we would be inside at the center. and during the summer we would be outside in the Circle. Everything happened in the Circle. Those parties were free. In Bronx River Center you started out with 50 Cent, 50 Cent went to 1$ and then it went to 2$."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall Monroe, Castle Hill, Soundview having any B-Boys"

AMAD:"They had B-Boys but they would come to our parties 'cause we all was connected. We all was family. They would come to Afrika Bambaataa's parties, they would come to DJ Mario's parties....wherever there was breakbeats playing people would flock to. But there were only certain DJs out that had a name. You had what you call block parties but we had project parties in the middle of the projects. People would come from all over....Lambert Houses, Lafayette, Soundview, Monroe, Bronxdale...you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were some other spots that you would go to in order to dance?"

AMAD:"I.S. 167, 100 Park. We would walk or take the 36 bus to 100 Park. Monroe Center...but that wasn't a gym. It was a lunchroom.In Castle Hill there were a lot of outdoor jams."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I interviewed DJ Afrika Issac from the Crazy 8 Crew out of Monroe and I also briefly spoke to DJ Little Afrika Khayan before he passed away. Do you recall Chipper, Khayan and them B-Boying?"

AMAD:"Yes, I remember Issac! And I remember Chipper and them, the Crazy 8 crew but they were younger than us. They came after us.  They weren't top tier, they were a younger crew. Like we brought in Beaver and Lil Boy Keith. They were that age bracket. Beaver and Lil Keith were nasty!!!!! They were nasty!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall any Puerto Rican B-Boys breaking back when you were doing it? Cholly Rock told me about Aztec and Lil Zambu and I was also told about Angel who was a member of the Shaka Zulus."

AMAD:"Lil Zambu was from Beaver's era. Yes, there was Puerto Ricans. Boyo was a Puerto Rican. It wasn't just Blacks, it was a mixture of Blacks and Puerto Ricans."

 SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

AMAD:"Nah, well I wanna shoutout Crazy Legs, Fabel and Alien Ness because them guys carried it when we stopped and they pushed it further. If they didn't do what they did Breaking wouldn't exist today."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I want to give a shoutout to my Intruders Crew (Scarce One, Krwizard, A.G., Akira), to all the true pioneers of Hiphop and to Sureshot La Rock (thanks for the Napalm), Input MZK, Kenny IB, Profowon: Ukubambisana!!!! Thank you to the Puppetmaster and Cholly Rock for making this interview possible! Shoutouts to Pluto 7, Mr. Wiggles RSC, Andre Wilson and Troy L. Smith as well as to Pete Nice."  

                                   

Interview with B-Boy Ace From Space (The Magnificent Seven)

                                Interview with B-Boy Ace From Space (The Magnificent Seven)

B-Boy Ace From Space (The Magnificent Seven)

                                 conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where were you born and raised?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"I was born and raised on 177th Street & Amsterdam Avenue in Manhattan." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"When were you born?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"1963."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you move to River Park Towers?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"I moved to River Park Towers in 1975."

SIR NORIN RAD:"To what kind of music were you exposed as a child?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"I listened to a lot of songs that my mother used to play all the time. Latin music, stuff from American Bandstand. Stuff like that. Soul Train music...."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which schools did you attend? You went to I.S. 229, right?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Yes, I.S. 229. My public school was P.S. 115 before I moved to the Bronx. That was my junior high school. I went there until I was in the 6th grade then I moved to the Bronx in 1975."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"What is your very first recollection of DJs playing breakbeats in a park or in a rec room?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Well, where I lived in River Park Towers there were four big buildings. Two that went up to the 43th floor, two that went to the 38th floor. I lived in the one that went up to the 43rd floor. I lived on the 41st floor.  So I would be upstairs and I would hear DJ Kojak and DJ Ice playing music downstairs. People started coming downstairs. That was like in 1976, 1977."  

April 29th, 1978: DJ Ice & DJ Kojak battling Kool DJ Troy and his crew at the legendary Webster P.A.L. 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was the music that you heard them play new to you?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"It was new but I had heard a lot of these beats when me and cousin would play a lot of records on our little record player. We would listen to "Mr. Big Stuff" and all that other stuff on 45s. But then moving to the Bronx I heard a lot of other beats. It was intriguing to just listen to all the new beats!! You knew the DJs would always play something new and fresh!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that DJ Ice and Kojak were the number one DJs in River Park Towers?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Yes."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where would they be playing at?" 

ACE FROM SPACE:"Well, where we lived the complex was one way in, one way out. So you drove your vehicle in, you drove back out. What they would do is they would close the entrance so no cars could come in. The street was so big. So they would set up between building 20 and 30 in our little recreation park. That was the only park we had and everything else was not even done yet. Back then them buildings weren't even finished yet."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How many people would fit in that recreation park?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"In my neighbourhood 550 people lived in one building. Like I said these buildings went up to the 43rd floor and the alphabets would be from A to K. So that's how many apartments were on each floor. So when they played music it was so many people outside."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you see B-Boying for the very first time?" 

ACE FROM SPACE:"It was outside in River Park Towers. It was summertime."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were those B-Boys that you saw dancing? Were they local cats or did they come from other neighbourhoods?"  

ACE FROM SPACE:"Some people didn't come to breakdance where we lived.  We did our own thing in our own community, right in River Park Towers. Me, Spice Nice... It was a few of us that started dancing in River Park Towers back then. Like in the community room down in the basement. Between building 20 and building 30 we had a community center. I remember my first time breakdancing right there in 1976, in the community center 'cause I was shy. Spice Nice was breakdancing and I told him I wanted to breakdance. He told me,"Just go down, man! You good." And I went down and I started breakdancing and that's when I first got out of being shy of breakdancing."

River Park Towers -West Bronx

SIR NORIN RAD:"What inspired you to become a B-Boy?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"The music! Because when you lived in the towers and you heard Kool Herc setting up across the highway there and you knew it's a party going on....we would cross the highway, make a shortcut to get over there to Sedgwick Park to go to the party and start breakdancing. You could hear his music from over there all the way to the towers."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did you do in order to improve your B-Boying skills?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Well, it was seven of us. Like Magnificent Seven? So we would practice in numerous places.  Like in the towers we would practice in the laundry room between building 30 and building 40. We would practice our moves there and we would practice them in the street 'cause we didn't breakdance with any cardboard. We used to breakdance on the concrete. None of that stuff came out till later."

SIR NORIN RAD:"From where did you know the other members of the Magificent Seven?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Well, we all went to the same school. We would dance on Sedgwick Avenue or sometimes on Undercliff Avenue 'cause that's where Lil Eldorado Mike lived with Cadillac Mel. It didn't matter where we was at. We could be downtown and we would be practicing in the street. We took the dance  very seriously. We practiced everyday. All of us had a special move that we did but we did more than just the moves we did. We didn't even have music! This is so crazy! We used to breakdance by mimicking the beat with our mouth while we were breakdancing 'cause we didn't have money to buy a radio. We would just mimic the beat with our mouth. That's how much dedication we had."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you said that the Magnificent Seven consisted of seven B-Boys. Cadillac Mel only mentioned six to me when I interviewed him. Please elaborate on this point!"

ACE FROM SPACE:"It was Cadillac Mel, me, Spice Nice, Lil Eldorado Mike, Rock Head, Noose...his B-Boy name was Casper and there was another one: Dingo! He was one of the Magnificent Seven which he lived in Cadillac Mel's building. He barely practiced with us but when we was battling people he was around. We made him our seventh member."

B-Boy Lil Eldorado Mike (The Magnificent Seven) 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you describe your style of Breaking?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Well, I was fast!! I was one of the fastest B-Boys on our squad. So I would do so many different things so fast and then I would freeze to a pose. Sometimes I would clown the opponent. A lot of things that I did...I used to handstand on my elbows and flip and all of that. We used to do like ballett. Like we used to stand on our toes and then we would spin on one foot and then just go down and do a Freeze or we would do the Zulu Spin. My Zulu Spin.... I could do it with no hands! And then I'd go into a Freeze."

SIR NORIN RAD:"You would do the Zulu Spin without using your hands?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Without hands! That's how fast I was."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please name those places where the Magnificent Seven would show up on the regular and get busy on the floor!"

ACE FROM SPACE:"We would go to Cedar Park. Well, I'm gonna name all the places we used to go to...If Kool DJ  Herc was DJing in Sedgwick Park we would go there.  That was the park between 1600 and 1520 Sedgwick Avenue. Which I used to hang in 1520  many, many, many years!  So if he was playing we was over there. If he was playing in Cedar Park we was there.  82 Park....we was there. River Park Towers...we was there. But Cedar Park was one of the biggest places that a lot of DJs went. Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Theodore..it was a lot of DJs. They would do battling in Cedar Park and we were there breakdancing. Echo Park was another big  park. We danced there, too. We loved the music and B-Boying so much back then 'cause there were only two things you did: You did the Hustle or you B-Boyed. They had their music and we had ours. When it was time to B-Boy we took care of business. " 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like when you witnessed Kool DJ Herc DJing for the first time?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"When I first saw Herc DJing I would say, "Wow, he's got the loudest music around!" He would drown every DJ! Whoever battled him they couldn't deal with him because of the loudness of the beats but when it came to techniques you had other people that were like better in their techniques. Like DJ Mr. Lee, DJ Kool Tee, DJ Ice, DJ Kojak....But I was also hanging in that building 'cause I was dating a girl in that building. Kool Herc lived on the first floor. When he played music we used to be over there breakdancing right in front of his window. He was getting his practice on and we would just party. Hiphop back then was totally different from what it is now."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were there any other DJs on the west side of the Bronx that you remember playing breakbeats?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Yeah, DJ Medicine Man, DJ Kryptonite...they all lived in 1600 Sedgwick Avenue.  You know, that's across from the highway from River Park Towers. You can walk to these buildings in five minutes. DJ Black Jack.....his partners were DJ Fudge and DJ Kryptonite.  It was a lot of DJs that are not mentioned. DJ Pee Wee.....he was also from River Park Towers. But the first DJs in the towers were DJ Ice and DJ Kojak. Just like the first DJs on Sedgwick Avenue was Kool DJ Herc and then later you also had DJ Mr. Lee and DJ Kool Tee. Then there was DJ Whitehead in 82 Park. Kool Herc had a club called The Sparkle and we would be breakdancing there. I remember being it 50 cent or 1 dollar to get in there back then. That's the way it was back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please decribe how you would dress back then!"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Well, back then we would go to Jew Man to get our Pro-Keds 69ers or Super Pro-Keds. The Super Pro-Keds had the red and blue stripe on the side of the sneaker.  That was one of the best sneakers to dance with because it was easy to stand on your toes with and it was easy to be swift on the floor. The Pro-Keds had the extra rubber on the tip and when they were new you could do whatever you wanted while standing on your toes. I'm telling you we was doing ballett moves and didn't even know it. We liked to breakdance with our Super Pro-Keds and we had Lee pants on and sweatshirts with our name on it. We would also wear Kangols and name belts." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What's the story behind your name Ace From Space?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Well, my name came from Spice Nice. When I told him I wanted to B-Boy he said, "Well, B-Boy! Let me see what you got!" So he saw how swift I was with it. I said, "The only thing I don't have a name." So he said,"You know what? I gonna call you Ace From Space!" His older brother is DJ Ice. We would help him to bring his stuff downstairs. He was from building 40 and DJ Kojak was from building 10. Our area is so big. It's like.. if you came into the projects..it's like four blocks. So when they would DJ I would hear it all the way upstairs where I lived on the 41st floor. I was facing the water, the Harlem River and I could see the little park. So I could hear the music and I could see them already setting up. I said, "Aight! I gotta get myself downstairs!" And that's how it went."

                                       

B-Boy Spice Nice (The Magnificent Seven)

SIR NORIN RAD:"So how would you prepare yourself?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Well, you gotta iron your clothes. That's for sure. I knew I would be breakdancing so I knew I had to wear my sneakers. Sometimes it was hot outside so then I would wear shorts but like I said the majority of time we would wear Lees. We would iron permanent creases into our Lees. We'd use spray starch, you know, keep' em stiff. We had to make sure sure that our sneakers and sweatshirts were always clean. That was very important! We'd also wear BVDs . We'd get them in different colors. We had Lee jackets with our names on it.  Spraypainted, stuff like that. Breakdancing was part of a rich culture back then. All that is gone. Tagging your name.....all that was part of Hiphop.So  then after we got dressed we just went  and breakdanced when the beats came."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it true that it was important to make sure that you wore matching colors?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Yes. We liked a lot of blue. A lot of our Pro-Keds were blue 'cause if we wore white it's gonna get dirty. So we wore blue Super Pro-Keds. We all came out with the same similar colors. We'd wear the same sneakers, jeans and sweatshirts and then you had the long tube socks. Most people today don't even know about those tube socks. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"You're talking about those kind of socks that Kareem Abdul-Jabar and Dr. J wore, right?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Yeah, that's the era where B-Boying comes from...the 1970ies."

Tube Socks

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like to jump into a B-Boy circle back then?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"You felt adrenaline rushing through your body! When you heard specific beats like "Shaft In Africa", "Bongo Rock", "Apache", "Dance To The Drummer's Beat"...once you heard those you was electrified 'cause you knew you was breakdancing. You just had to see who was coming to breakdance but we had our crew there so we're not worried about who's there. As soon as you heard those beats you knew you was out there to dance. The culture is different now. The people forgot where it came from."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you also go to clubs like the T-Connection in order to check out MC crews like the Funky Four + One?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Yes, I had so many flyers. My whole bedroom was covered with flyers!!! All the places! T-Connection, Ecstasy Garage....Often we would find out about where jams was taking place through the beats that we heard while we was walking outside 'cause we would do a lot of walking. We would walk everywhere. We didn't care. We walked to Harlem, we walked to Manhattan, we walked to the east side of the Bronx, we walked everywhere. The majority of the parties was always on a Friday, Saturday...sometimes on a Thursday. It depended on who wanted to come out. Sometimes we would even go to Kool T and Mr. Lee and ask them to come out and play beats for us. We would help them out. We would take the speakers, the records and all that and bring it to 1600 Sedgwick Avenue just so we could have a party!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"You're saying that the party wasn't even scheduled?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"They came out because we had influenced them to do a party!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did you drink on a hot summer day when you were B-Boying in a park and you had become thirsty?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"We drank soda. We'd drink those Sunkist grape or orange sodas. What was the name of that other soda? Nehi!!! That was one of our favourite drinks back then. The Nehi pineapple, grape, orange...those sodas back then. Nehi....that's an old soda and that's what we used to drink." 

Nehi Soda

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you buy those Nehi sodas?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"We had bodegas around everywhere we had a party. Cedar Park, we'd go up the hill. It was right there on Burnside Avenue. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you tag up your name back then?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Yeah, I tagged up my name with markers, the big Pilot markers. I didn't do too much spray painting but I did write my name here and there. The Bronx back then looked like everything was damaged. So you saw graffiti everywhere!!! On the trains, on the bus, in your hallway, in the staircase. You saw it everywhere!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did you write?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"I wrote ACE. Then sometimes I would add FROM SPACE with some stars."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please explain the importance of the breakbeats for Hiphop!"

ACE FROM SPACE:"The beats were important to the culture because you felt the beats! They made you want to breakdance. The B-Boys they knew what time it was. We waited for them breakbeats and we knew all of them. Like "The Mexican"...when you heard it you knew it was time to get busy. Or "Theme From S.W.A.T.", we'd breakdance to that. "Listen To Me" by Baby Huey. Ah man!!!!!!!!! That was one of the songs that....I can't explain that breakbeat but that beat would pull you right out!!  The beat wasn't that much but when they played it back to back? That was it!!! You just couldn't get off the floor. You ain't even gotta call the B-Boys up to the front. Nothing! Everybody knew! If you were a B-Boy and you heard those beats, you was there ready to breakdance! Footwork at first 'cause everything comes with the footwork and we had plenty of that footwork."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you mean by that? Is footwork what you do on top or on the floor? I heard different definitions of the term "footwork" that's why I'm asking."

ACE FROM SPACE:"That's what we would do on top before we even got down to the floor, you know what I'm saying? So we did a lot of footwork and then when that breakbeat drops you on the floor! Now you gotta come with your A game!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your top 3 breakbeats?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"I gotta say "Apache", I gotta say "Shaft In Africa" and I definetely gotta say "The Mexican". Those three right there pulled you out!! It didn't matter where you was at. Like you was eating ice cream at the block party you knew where to go to dance and it always was in front of the rope. The DJ was DJing behind the rope." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the name of the dance back then?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"We was always calling it breakdancing....B-Boy! You had the B-Boys and the B-Girls. If a girl breakdances she's a B-Girl. I'm a B-Boy."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I know that you were kool with Jojo (Spider Man) and his brother Easy Mike (Beretta) as well as with Spider Web who are all Puerto Rican B-Boys. Were there any other Puerto Rican B-Boys that you remember?" 

ACE FROM SPACE:"I am Puerto Rican (laughs) and I'm the only Puerto Rican that was in our crew. Everybody else was Black. I'm a Black Puerto Rican. We were doing our thing out there  before the Rock Steady Crew. Hector Lavoe, Tito Puente I know all of that. Like I said I grew up with Latin music. Me, Cadillac Mel, Lil Eldorado Mike and them, we were like brothers. There was no hatred. We was all kool. We didn't fight amongst each other. Nothing! All we did was dance. We danced, we played basketball together, we played a lot of games...and when it came to Hiphop, B-B-Boying we practiced and we practiced well. I mean we would practice for hours." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you know that a new move that you had created was nice? Would your crewmates tell you?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"When we practiced I would tell 'em, "Yo, check this move out!" And they would be like,"Yo, that's hot!" or they would say, "Nah, that's whack! You gotta do it better!" But we all had different techniques. Like Cadillac Mel was mostly comic, me I was mostly speed and freezes, Spice Nice was smooth with it, Lil Eldorado Mike had his own unique style. We all had smooth moves. Like this is how you know your moves are smooth: Your Pro-Keds 69ers when you got 'em....if you messed up the canvas on your sneakers you was a sloppy B-Boy. We didn't breakdance that way. That's why I am saying our technique was different. When we breakdanced our sneakers stayed clean and crisp. That's why we was on point with our moves. We even did the Figure Four Leg Lock Freeze in three different ways."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

ACE FROM SPACE:"Yeah, I'd like to give a shoutout to Kool DJ Herc for bringing all this out! I also give a shoutout to Jerry Leader! I know him for a long time. I give a shoutout to Kool T and DJ Mr. Lee! I also gotta give it to DJ Kojak and DJ Ice! Those DJs embody Hiphop for me. That's where it came from. Shoutouts to Cadillac Mel and the Magnificent Seven and to you Norin Rad!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you! Shoutouts to Jerry Leader and Cadillac Mel for making this interview possible. Shoutouts to my Intruders Crew and all the true pioneers of Hiphop! Shoutouts to Troy L. Smith, Pluto Seven, Mr. Wiggles RSC and to Input MZK, Sureshot La Rock, Kenny IB. UKUBAMBISANA!!!"

Interview with B-Boy Cadillac Mel (The Magnificent Seven)

                                       Interview with B-Boy Cadillac Mel (The Magnificent Seven)

                                          

                                                    

B-Boy Cadillac Mel (The Magnificent Seven)

                                           conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders/Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where were you born and raised?"

CADILLAC MEL:"I was born and raised in New York City. At first I was in Manhattan 'cause I was born in Mount Sinai Hospital and then I moved to the Bronx to Sedgwick Avenue. I might have been eight or nine years old when I moved to the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which year were you born?"

CADILLAC MEL:"1964."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Into which building on Sedgwick Avenue did you move?"

CADILLAC MEL:"1520 Sedgwick Avenue where it all started 'cause you know Kool Herc used to give parties in the building. So I used to go down in the community room and party with them."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how you came across Kool DJ Herc's parties!"

CADILLAC MEL:"Well, okay..Kool Herc..before he started partying he used to ride around with his speakers in his car. He used to play his music in his car riding around. Then he started doing music in the community room in 1520 downstairs and then he went to the park.....to Sedgwick Park and he started doing music there. I used to live in apartment 6A in 1520. Kool Herc was on the first floor. I used to be right by his window breakdancing when he used to play music outside his window. When I would hear his music I would be there practicing B-Boying, you know? And then he moved to Sedgwick Park and we would follow him and we would start Breaking in Sedgwick Park. People from River Park Towers was hearing the music 'cause his music was so loud. So River Park Towers was coming over and the park would get crowded....everybody dancing and we started Breaking. Other B-Boys was coming around, they was seeing us Breaking and so we used to battle each other. So I kinda grew up with Kool Herc. Kool Herc saw me grow up. Put it like that. I know his whole family. I used to hang out with his younger brother Carl...God bless the dead! We was kool and I know both of his sisters."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What sparked your interest in B-Boying?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Well, what sparked it was....I used to go to a lot of parties. DJs like Herc used to do block parties in the street. There was a school called JHS 82. They used to party up in there. They used to party in Cedar Park. They used to party in this club on University Avenue. I mean I just loved the music and when I heard that record "Apache" that set it off!!! That was my record right there! When I heard that record I would lose it, you know what I mean? So we used to go around, you know? We used to hang out and then we used to crash block parties and stuff like that and see people Breaking. So we were still young and we would sit there and watch them and then we would join in, too! You see other people B-Boying so that makes you wanna go down. So me and my friends we formed a group. We was the Magnificent Seven. It was me, Spice Nice, Lil Eldorado Mike, Ace From Space, my man Rock Head and my man Manny aka Noose. We used to go around and battle other groups of B-Boys and that's how we got to know Spider Man, Baretta and Spider Web."   

SIR NORIN RAD:"I was told that you were also down with DJ Mr. Lee's Mission Impossible Crew. Please elaborate on that!"

CADILLAC MEL:"Yeah, that's true. Before we formed the Magnificent Seven I was down with DJ Mr. Lee and DJ Kool Tee. They used to DJ in 1520 also, in the community room and then they took it to the park....to Sedgwick Park and they used to be out there. They used to battle DJ Black Jack and his crew."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you form the Magnificent Seven?"

CADILLAC MEL:"That was around 1978, 1979. Around that time but I had already been Breaking for like two years before that." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How and where did you meet the other members of the Magnificent Seven?"

CADILLAC MEL:"We went to the same school...I.S. 229. Me and Ace From Space we was in the same class and we used to be Breaking in the class! We used to always joke around and stuff like so that's why they put us in a special class. It was like a smaller class, okay? They had the 7th and 8th grade mixed together. It was mostly us that hung out with each other in the class. The teacher that we had she was nice where she would let us be in the back of the room and practice and do B-Boying. We would practice to breakbeats. So that's what we would do in school and then we would get outside and do our thing in the street."

                         

I.S. 229 in the Bronx

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where's Ace From Space from?"

CADILLAC MEL:"He's from River Park Towers. Spice Nice, Rock Head, Noose...they're all from River Park Towers."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were all of you Black B-Boys?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Well, it was all Blacks until we merged with Spider Man (Jojo) and Spider Web. I think they kinda got down with us after a while. Once they met us and they seen us we all like formed together as a group. That's how we got to meet them. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"So the Magnificent Seven would also dance at 82 Park where DJ Whitehead of the Triple A Crew would play music at?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Oh yeah! We danced in 82 Park, Cedar Park and Sedgwick Park. We were just moving around. Wherever jams was happening at we was there!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how you met Spice Nice!" 

CADILLAC MEL:"I met him because his brother DJ Ice, DJ Kojak and them they used to DJ in River Park Towers. They also used to DJ in Cedar Park. I used to hang out in River Park Towers a lot, you know what I mean? That was the place to be! They had the swimming pool, they had the gym. Everybody used to go to the gym to play ball (basketball). You know, stuff like that. They had the recreational center where everybody could play ping pong. Yeah, so we used to go down there a lot. That's how I met Spice and them in River Park Towers."

April 9th, 1977: DJ Ice and DJ Kojak are rocking at the legendary Sparkle along with Kool DJ Herc and Coke La Rock in the Bronx.

SIR NORIN RAD:"What's the story behind that name Rock Head?"

CADILLAC MEL:"He had a big forehead. So we called him Rock Head, you know? His real name is Marvin."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did B-Boying look like when you were doing it?"

CADILLAC MEL:"You would start Toprocking and then you would get down on the floor and do your own moves with your feet. You would decide if you wanted to spin on your head or whatever or walk on your toes. We would practice stuff like that. We would also use little things like utensils or whatever just to do funny things.  You would stop and freeze and have a little utensil in your hand. It would turn into a fly move! Like I would freeze in front of my opponent and then peel a banana. Things that came to your mind! We would sorta like diss each other! It was for fun though."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when you were Breaking you didn't dance at the same time as your opponent, right?"

CADILLAC MEL:"No, Trixie and them they used to battle like that. We were going one by one. We'd let our opponent go first and then when they're finished we would get down and do our thing. Like that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you remember a B-Boy by the name of Spooky who lived in 1520 Sedgwick Avenue?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Oh yeah, Jeffrey Wyatt....Spook Juice. We called him Spook Juice. He was a good friend of my older brother. He was the man! God bless him! He was definetely well known on Sedgwick."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the people who lived in 1520 Sedgwick Avenue get along well with each other?"

CADILLAC MEL:"We was like all family, you know what I mean? Brothers and sisters.We was all kool. We was always getting together and doing things together. It was like family right there! And still is to this day!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were there any B-Boys that influenced your style of Breaking?"

CADILLAC MEL:" Well, it was basically me making up my own moves but I got inspired when I seen the B-Boys of the Zulu Nation. I saw them doing the Zulu Spin and I took it and mastered it. 'Cause you know, we battled the Zulu Nation B-Boys. We battled a lot of crews back then. Like we would go around and battle people."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you're saying that you travelled all the way to Bronx River in order to battle B-Boys of the Zulu Nation?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Yeah, we took the bus to go there. The 36 Bus takes you straight there. It was dangerous 'cause back then people who weren't from Bronx River got robbed over there. But it was kool. We'd go over there and the DJs started to play the beats that we liked and so we started going down, you know what I mean? Showing our skills!! "

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you take that Zulu Spin and turn it into a move of your own?"

CADILLAC MEL:"I seen it and I liked it. So I took it and added my own flavor to it. I mastered that move!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe what it was like to be at those jams in the parks and community centers back then?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Ah man!!! It was so kool 'cause like when DJs like DJ Mr. Lee and DJ Kool T came out with their equipment I used to help them carry their equipment to the park. Carrying crates and stuff like that. The records......I used to help them with their equipment....bring it out, the set up...So I was around. Matter of fact I even helped Kool Herc moving his equipment to the park when I was still very young. Once the DJs set up that's when we did our thing! Once they started playing the beats......To tell you the truth it was the best time of my life, man!!! Coming up in those times? Come on, man! It was real awesome! When we would hear the music we would be hyped up. We hyped up now so we're crashing the party. Sometimes we would just be walking around to see what's going on and everything. And then when they would play something that we liked we would just go off and draw a crowd, you know what I mean? That's it, man! The Magnificent Seven got loose! We all was nice! Lil Eldorado Mike, Ace From Space, Rock Head..we all was nice 'cause everybody had their own moves! People started gathering around us while we were doing our thing. Just like that! When the girls would see me get down and do my thing they would be like, "Go Cadillac! Go Cadillac!" They used to shout me out,"Cadillac Mel!!!" That's why a lot of people know me as Cadillac Mel. Me and Lil Eldorado Mike had a routine where he pretended to be pregnant or whatever. Like his belly was big and I would go and pick him up and then I would drop him and he would become a B-Boy and start doing his moves. It was hot. We was nice, man!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you ever go against any B-Boy that was down with your crew, the Magnificent Seven? Like maybe before you formed that crew when you first met or during practice sessions?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Yeah, we used to battle each other to see who got the better moves and the best style. We used to do that when we hung out together but we always stuck together as a group and whoever tried to bring it to us we took 'em on."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So where did you meet Spider Man and Spider Web?"

CADILLAC MEL:"I think it was Cedar Park if I'm not mistaken. That was a big park and that used to hold a lot of people. We used to gp down there and Break. They used to see us Breaking. And I think we battled them, too. That's how we got to know each other. " 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you remember who won that battle?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Well yeah, I mean both crews were nice. We both was nice, you know what I mean? They had fly moves, we had fly moves. It was like we both was good. I would put it as a tie. They ended up getting down with us and then we added even more people to the crew. Back then it was a lot of Black B-Boys and then when we met Spider Man, Beretta and Spider Web that's when I started to see Puerto Rican B-Boys 'cause I wasn't seeing Puerto Rican B-Boys prior to them. It was mostly Black people Breaking. We inspired a lot of people."

B-Boy Easy Mike aka Beretta and B-Boy Jojo aka Spider Man 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How do you feel about the state of B-Boying today?"

CADILLAC MEL:"See, what they're doing today is too much of that acrobat stuff. We wasn't doing that. We were dancing, doing fly moves. Now they're doing gymnastics. We was doing fly moves, we wasn't doing all that crazy stuff that they're doing today. We're original B-Boys!! We were B-Boying, they're doing gymnastics now. When you heard "Apache" or "Bongo Rock" automatically you wanna do a fly move. Those beats unlocked your creativity! You wanna get on the floor and start Breaking!!! It gets you like that and I still feel like that today. At this age I still feel like that if I get to hear those reords. It's like it's in your blood.....that B-Boy energy!!! You can't get it out of you! "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you wear shirts with your crew's name on it?"

CADILLAC MEL:"No, we wore regular clothes. We would wear Pumas and Pro-Keds, BVDs Kangols... The style of back then is how we used to dress."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe your state of mind when you jumped into a circle back then!"

CADILLAC MEL:"You wanted the people to applaud you! You wanted them go like,"Oh, yo that shit is fly!!!!!" The crowd and the music would get you hyped up. So when you did a fly move your opponent would be like, "Okay!" and he would come out and try to do some of his moves,  he would try to do something better. So it was going back and forth. You're doing something fly and the crowd would applaud you and then I would do something fly and the crowd would applaud me. So if you do something whack you're not gonna hit'em like, "Yo!!!!!!!!!!!!" So you always wanna come out with somethig fly to make the crowd go, "Oooh!!! What??" and to get the opponent upset. You had to be nice!  Don't come outside if you don't got  no fly moves! You had to be fly back then and you had to have fly moves....."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which DJ's parties did you enjoy the most back then?"

CADILLAC MEL:"DJ Kool T and DJ Mr. Lee.....Kool Herc he used to play all the hot beats but Herc wasn't cutting and stuff like that. I loved his parties though. I also liked DJ Ice and DJ Kojak and DJ Black Jack. All the DJs from the West Side of the Bronx know about the Magnificent Seven B-Boys." 

October 6th, 1978: DJ Ice (B-Boy Spice Nice's older brother) & DJ Kojak are rocking at the Audubon Ballroom in Harlem. 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shoutouts at the end of this interview?"

CADILLAC MEL:"Yeah, I like to give a shoutout to my crew: Ace from Space, Lil Eldorado Mike, Spice Nice, Noose, Rock Head, Kool T, Mr. Lee, Kool DJ Herc, Jerry D, the whole 1520 Sedgwick Avenue family!!! I appreciate the time that you took to talk to me about this so I give you a shoutout also!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you very much! I give a shoutout to my Intruders crew: DJ Scarce, Krwizard, Akira, A.G., to Troy L. Smith, Mr. Wiggles RSC, Pluto Seven, Pete Nice, Andre Wilson. To the Flyer Master Sureshot La Rock, Input MZK, Kenny IB UKUBAMBISANA!!!!!! To all the pioneers of Hiphop and those that follow in their footsteps! To Jasko aka Bo-Ink, MC Lonely........Princess Teela (RIP) and to my man Jerry Leader for making this interview possible!!"  

Interview with B-Boy Freddy G aka Ant Man (The Shaka Zulus)

                                            Interview with Freddy G aka Ant Man (The Shaka Zulus)

         

B-Boy Freddy G aka Ant Man (The Shaka Zulus)

                                  conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD: "Where were you born and raised?"

FREDDY G:"I was born and raised in New York City....in Harlem, Sugar Hill. 151st Street & Riverside Drive."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When were you born?"

FREDDY G:"1962."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of music were you exposed to as a kid?"

FREDDY G:"It was R&B. Earth, Wind & Fire...stuff like that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how you got in contact with Hiphop Culture!"

FREDDY G:"My man....the Puppetmaster he introduced me to the Bronx and when I saw the B-Boys there doing their thing it was exhilarating, you know? He took me to Bronx River. After that I was like,"Oh!!!" I was shocked to see the music and the dance moves and everything. I came home and I was like, "Yo, I gotta do this!" It was exciting, you know? I never felt so much soul in music and I had never seen people dancing like that before."

SIR NORIN RAD:" How old were you when the Puppetmaster took you with him to Bronx River?"

FREDDY G:"I was 14."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you get there?"

FREDDY G:"We used to take the train, the 6 train." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long is the train ride from Sugar Hill to Bronx River?"

FREDDY G:"Oh, about an hour."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please elaborate on what you saw and felt during your first vist to Bronx River!"

FREDDY G:"It was an outside party at the Bronx River Center. Afrika Bambaataa was DJing. So the first time I got there I was like, "Oh, my God!!" The music was like so different! I never heard music like that on the radio before. He would play The Jimmy Castor Bunch and James Brown. It was just so different from everything I had seen and heard in Harlem. When I saw the B-Boys dancing I was so excited! When I came home I said to myself, "I have to go back to Bronx River with the Puppetmaster to capture that experience again!" That day my inner soul came out of me. After that I started going back with him everytime he went. Later on we would also go to Bronxdale with DJ Mario. We used to go to Kool DJ Herc & The Herculords parties at the Webster P.A.L. back in the day, too. We would go to The Renaissance Ballroom, The Audubon.........it was great."

SIR NORIN RAD:"From where did you know the Puppetmaster?"

FREDDY G:"Well, he was from the Bronx but he had moved up on Sugar Hill. So one day he said to me,"Let's go to the Bronx and have a party!" Like I said it was an outside party and it was free."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you must have also known Voodoomaster Herb (another Harlem Shaka Zulu B-Boy)?"

FREDDY G:"Yeah, I know Herb. I met him through the Puppetmaster. He was from Sugar Hill, too." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"You were also known as  B-Boy Ant Man, right?"

FREDDY G:"Yes, the Puppetmaster gave me that name when we was young and we was developing our fighting skills by slap boxing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please break down to me how you developed your Breaking skills and your own style of B-Boying!"

FREDDY G:"I started by watching the Puppetmaster and the Zulu Kings. Then I would come up with my own moves 'cause everybody had their own moves that made them stand out. I would practice at home in front of the mirror. My thing was the Helicopter! It was great! The music would just hit you and made you wanna move!! It just felt natural."

SIR NORIN RAD:"You were also a member of The Shaka Zulus, right?"

FREDDY G:"Yes, the Puppetmaster had introduced me to Wade (the president of the Shaka Zulu B-Boys). He asked me if I could B-Boy nicely  and so I did a little something on the floor and that's how I got down with them. I was also a member of the Zulu Nation. I was in Chapter 11. We had the yellow B-Boy cards. They were given to us by Bambaataa. We would show the cards to get into the parties for free and everything."  

                                                           

B-Boy Puppetmaster (The Shaka Zulus)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe what you would wear to the parties back then!"

FREDDY G:"I would wear a Kangol hat or a leather chauffeur hat. I would also wear Overlap Pants, a Mockneck and a leather jacket. I'd wear Pro-Keds or Puma sneakers. Later on we wore Cazal glasses, Adidas tracksuits, Sergio Valentes."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Bronx River cats were notorius for chasing B-Boys who weren't from Bronx River back to the subway station. Did you ever experience something similar when you were there?"   

FREDDY G:"Nah, I was always safe because Puppetmaster knew everybody there. I never felt uncomfortable going up there. I felt wecolmed everytime I went there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long did it take until you felt comfortable enough to jump into the circle at a party and do your thing?"

FREDDY G:"Well, it was like the second or third time I went. The music was sooo good I just came out of my natural self. I got on the floor and I just started dancing. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall the song that caused that reaction?"

FREDDY G:"I think it was the Isley Brothers...."Get Into Something".

SIR NORIN RAD:"So how did feel after your first appearance in a B-Boy circle?"

FREDDY G:"I felt strong. I felt good, I felt good like, "I did my thing!" I couldn't complain. Peabody of the Shaka Zulus jumped in the circle after me and he wanted to battle me."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Peabody with the thick glasses!"

FREDDY G:"Yes, with the glasses. He was nice!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So did you go against him?"

FREDDY G."No, he was too nice. When I'd seen him  I was like, "Oh!!!! Right now I can't do it." But the Puppetmaster took him out. After that I just started dancing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did it take back then to be an exceptional B-Boy?"

FREDDY G:"You had to have certain unique moves. Like we would be demonstrating stuff....you know, like driving a car or taking a person's hat off and throw it in the air. We would do certain characters. It was like transforming, you know? We would transform into different things like characters or movements. When I was on the floor everything just came to me. It came natural. I would just do whatever I wanted to do. I just felt the music......My main thing was the Helicopter and the Freeze. I would spin around and spin around and then I would freeze. You know, I would stop on the floor and I would have my hand on my hat and I would look at my opponent. I couldn't do the Helicopter backwards though, I did it forwards."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which parties did you like better? Those of DJ Afrika Bambaataa or those of DJ Mario?"

FREDDY G:"Well, DJ Mario was good but it seemed like Bronx River was much better than Mario. Mario was good but he was just a little bit quieter than Bronx River. Afrika Bambaataa had way more beats than Mario. He was the Master of Records. Him and Kool Herc..."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your top 3 breakbeats?"

FREDDY G:"I would say my first one is "Apache" by The Incredible Bongo Band and then....."Give It Up Or Turn It Aloose" by James Brown. My number three is "Get Into Something" by the Isley Brothers. The first time I heard "Apache" it was exhilarating. I never heard music like that before. That was in Bronx River. And then the next time I went I heard "Apache" come on that was it!!! You would do moves to the whole record!" 

James Brown - Give It Up Or Turn It Aloose 1970

   

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you remember about other music besides breakbeats being played at the jams back then?"

FREDDY G:"The DJs played breakbeats for the B-Boys and then they would slow it down. They would end the party with the slow dancing joints." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were there any other B-Boys or B-Boy Crews in the Sugar Hill section of Harlem during  the mid 1970ies?"

FREDDY G:"No."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Around 1978 many B-Boys quit Breaking and got into DJing or MCing...."

FREDDY G:"Yes, that's when we formed the Mighty Gestapo Crew."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the stomping ground of that crew?"

FREDDY G:"We used to play at the Battleground in Harlem. We played at Trinity Church. We used to play against The People's Choice on 174th Street and Broadway/ Amsterdam.  We took them out. Then we played at Martin Luther King High School. We had a battle with The Fearless Four. We beat them. We were the number one in Sugar Hill. Our equipment was good. Our DJs and MCees were good. They used to get jealous. Our MC squad was called The Funky Phase Four. It was Prince Whipper Whip, Dot-A-Rock, Count D and Speedy Speed. I would say that we brought DJing & MCing from the Bronx to Harlem, back when we had the Mighty Gestapo Crew and the Funky Phase Four MCees. After that it seemed like a lot of other groups started coming out in Harlem."

December 14th, 1979: The Mighty Gestapo Crew is rocking at the Intercession Trinity Church in Harlem 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So your saying that your crew was playing that BX breakbeat music in Harlem even before The Sapphire Crew did their thing at the Renaissance Ballroom?"

FREDDY G:"Yeah, we used to go to the Renaissance Ballroom but I knew about breakbeats before I went there. We used to go to the Audubon Ballroom. The L-Brothers and DJ Casanova Fly used to be there. It was really good. My brother and Kenny B. used to DJ on 149th Street & Riverside Drive and then after they started hearing our music all of a sudden we started hearing about DJ B-Fats and DJ Donald D (Sapphire Crew), The People's Choice and all these other groups. I guess they got hip to it but I think we were the first ones who started doing all that. "  

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you manage to make Prince Whipper Whip and Dot-A-Rock join the Mighty Gestapo  Crew?"

FREDDY G:"Well, Prince Whipper Whip used to live in the same building when the Puppetmaster was living in the Bronx and Prince Whipper knew Dot-A-Rock so that's how that happened. After we had our group going on and they had seen how good our DJs were they joined our crew. It was DJ Kenny B and my older brother DJ Chris Chris. We had one room together and my brother used to have at least 20 crates of records. My sister used to work for CVS and she would get him a lot of free records. My brother also wrote Graffiti. He wrote CHOKE 2. Did the Puppetmaster tell you about that?"

DJ Chris Chris (The Mighty Gestapo Crew)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yes, he did. Were you also a Writer?"

FREDDY G:"I only bombed the insides. I never went into the tunnels with the black light. I used to have a little opaque marker or a magic marker on me.... stuff like that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did you write?"

FREDDY G:"I wrote PU 2. That abbreviation stood for PUMA 2."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which line did you hit?"

FREDDY G:"It was just the 1 train. Graffiti was a part of our culture. Once you started seeing pieces on the trains everybody wanted to have a little name. Long before Beat Street came out that's what everybody was doing." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How important was it to you back then to gain fame as a B-Boy?"

FREDDY G:"I wasn't thinking about fame or anything like that. It just felt good to be part of something so beautiful. I wasn't looking for fame. It was just something natural that was happening. When I jumped into the circle I did not think about fame. I also never really battled that much. I danced because I loved the music and the artform."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How do you feel about the current state of B-Boying?"

FREDDY G:"Right now it's not original. Everybody is copying the spins and stuff like that. That's what they call Breakdancing. We wasn't Breakdancers, we was B-Boyin'!!!! We were doing real moves to the music, you know what I'm saying?? We were incorporating the music.  Not just spinning on your head and stuff like that. Now they're Breakdancing, they're not B-Boying. They're just doing moves now."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who are your top 3 B-Boys of all times?"

FREDDY G:"I would say Cholly Rock of the Zulu Kings, Peabody (The Shaka Zulus) and my mentor the Puppetmaster. I used to just watch him. He didn't have to tell me how to do a move or nothing like that. When I would see him dance I would always say to myself, "Yo, that shit was nice!""

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please explain the importance of the Breakbeats for Hiphop from a B-Boy's perspective!"

FREDDY G:"The breakbeats was like very important because when the breakbeat came on with the drummer and everything like that that's what we would love to dance to. That was the main part that moved us." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shout outs at the end of this interview?"

FREDDY G:"I would like to give a shoutout to my maaaaaaaaaaaan Mark Muhammad aka The Puppetmaster! To my man Cholly Rock! To my man Kenny B! Gestapo Crew! To Prince Whipper Whip! To my brother Chris Chris! To my men...Rest in Peace...Speedy Speed and Count D! To Dot-A-Rock! RIP!"   

SIR NORIN RAD:"Shoutouts to my Intruders Crew: Scarce One, Akira, A.G., Krwizard. To Troy L. Smith, Pluto Seven. To my man Sureshot La Rock, Input MZK, Kenny IB... UKUBAMBISANA!!! To all the original Kings and Queens of Hiphop! Special thanks to the Puppetmaster for making this interview possible!"