Interview with the Original DJ Tibbs

DJ Tibbs

       conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Boogie Down Bronx are you? Like from which section and from which street?"

DJ TIBBS:"Okay, me and DJ Charlie Rock (his DJ partner) we were from Butler Houses which is called Webster Houses. We lived at 169th street & Webster Avenue. Charlie Rock lived in 1230 Webster and I lived in 1348 Webster....in the projects."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which side of the Bronx is that? Is that the east side of the Bronx?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yes, that's the east side of the Bronx which is like....we had a place called The Nine which is Washington Avenue...everybody knew about The Nine though it's called Claremont Projects but everybody called it The Nine. All the DJs played there.  So it is like the east side of the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the first jam that you ever attended?"

DJ TIBBS:"My first Hip Hop party that I attended was at The Black Door and Grandmaster Flash was playing. He was the first DJ that did the backspin, growing up in the Bronx.  Grandmaster Flash..he always did his parties every Saturday at the Black Door...everybody just knew that Grandmaster Flash played at the Black Door, so everybody would go there every Saturday. We would go there and see him mixing up beats....he was just good, he was good!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. Do you recall what kind of impression was left on you by seeing Flash at the Black Door?"

DJ TIBBS:"The impression was to see this crowd of people come from all over to see this guy. You know, this guy drew people from all over it's like...the place was jam packed!!! Every Saturday! That inspired me to think like,"Ah, I wish that was me!" You know? See people dancing...you know, the people were happy and laughing...it was fun! So that really inspired me."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So then what was the next step for you to pick up DJing yourself?"

DJ TIBBS:"Okay, so the next step was going around to different parks in the Bronx to see different DJs play and to hear beats because at that time I didn't have that many records. I met a few DJs....I went to school with Kool DJ Red Alert...we both went to DeWitt Clinton High School in the Bronx in 1974. So when I met Red Alert he told me that he had a lot of records. So I said, "How many records do you have?" He said he had a garage full of records! (laughs) At that point I only had maybe two or three milk crates. So he told me, "If you wanna do this you gotta go around and get yourself some beats, get you a nice soundsystem, talk to other DJs and listen...listen to those beats, man....to learn!" Then later on I ran into Afrika Bambaataa who was from Bronx River and he gave me some beats. He said, "Tibbs, here are some beats. You gotta go around and search for these beats and do your thing!" So both of those guys..I look up to both of those guys."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were some of the parks that you would go to in order to check out some other DJs ?"

DJ TIBBS:"We went up there to the Valley...we went to Forest Houses to see Grandmaster Flash. Basically though, I started learning from Webster. We had three DJs on Webster....we had TR Nation which was Presweet....we had DJ Formalo who lived down the block and we had DJ Tibbs and DJ Charlie Rock. All of those guys were in the same neighbourhood."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you also recall a duo that consisted of DJ Bear and DJ Abel?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah, I remember Abel...yeah!!!! (excited) I battled Abel on Webster!!! That was big!!!  Yeah, I knew him for a long time! He was a good guy! All that was going on on Webster. If it wasn't on Webster it was going on on The Nine!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which steps did you take to build up both your record collection and your soundsystem?"

DJ TIBBS:"Okay, so first like I told you...my mom she had boxes of 45s, she had no albums..she just had boxes of 45s. So what I did was...back then, you know, we had one turntable which was an old school turntable and I had a 8 Track- Player. So I put the 45s and the 8 Track-Player together and I started mixing records. So then I went to a Kool Herc party which took place on The Nine and Kool Herc had like twelve speakers, he had six speakers on each side. It was amazing how many speakers this guy had. It was loud!!! When Kool Herc came out you really heard the soundsystem from many blocks away because he had so many speakers! So I said, "Wow, that's what I wanna do! Get some speakers!" I never met him but I heard his music and I heard him playing those beats. Every time that I tried to meet him at different parks it was so crowded I couldn't meet him. Then when I finally met him he said, "Look, man, if you wanna be a DJ you need a soundsystem so people can hear your soundsystem from blocks away!" So that's what I started doing and then I met a DJ called DJ Dutchmaster, he was a Spanish DJ from The Nine and he had eight Cerwin Vegas. Those speakers were like the classic speakers. They were on wheels. I bought four from him and then I started building up a soundsystem from there. So four speakers, four bass bottoms I had , two sets of horns and two sets of tweeters.....and one mixer."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of mixer was that? Was that a clubman mixer?"

DJ TIBBS:"I had a clubman and I had a GLI."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. What about the amps?"

DJ TIBBS:"We all used Crown amps. Crown or Pioneer,"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you purchase them from? Crazy Eddie's?"

DJ TIBBS:"No, no. There was a place on Canal street in Manhattan. All they sold was speakers, turntables. So if you wanted anything you had to go to Canal street to get turntables, speakers, amps. That's where you had to go."

SIR NORIN RAD:"It is interesting that you mention DJ Dutchmaster because the legendary DJ Clark Kent also told me that he started his DJ career through him. He furthermore told me that the Ni**er Twins, Keith and Kevin were around DJ Dutchmaster at one time."

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah, yeah!!!! I know them (The Ni**er Twins)!!! Those were Herc's boys!!! I know those guys!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"But DJ Dutchmaster wasn't a Hiphop DJ, right?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah...he played Hustle music but, you know, he had a good soundsystem. People knew him."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall how much DJ Dutchmaster charged you for those four Cerwin Vegas speakers?"

DJ TIBBS:"Back then he charged me like 300$ a piece for those Cerwin Vegas. They would cost like 600$ but he did me a favour. He knew what I wanted to do, he said, "You wanna do this? I got a bunch of speakers. Take these four cabinets and start building from there!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess this whole transaction took place at a party?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah, he was DJing at a party on The Nine. I didn't know he was Dutchmaster until Charlie Rock told me. Charlie Rock said, "Yo, that's DJ Dutchmaster!" I said, "Oh yeah, I heard about this guy." You know? Then when the party was over I went over there to introduce myself. I said, "I'm Tibby Tibbs!" He said, "Yeah, I heard about you. You got a lot of breakbeats, right?" So I said, "Yeah! I'm interested in buying some of your speakers." He said,"Well, I never sold any speakers but I heard a lot about you. You know what? I got a couple of speakers that I let you buy so you can build yourself up. That's what he did. So he looked out for me. As far as my record collection, you know, like I said I only had 45s so I started going around to different places. They had a place called Downstairs Records on 42nd street, every Friday I would go down there, get some beats..just try to build up my record collection. Every party that I went to I kept hearing those different beats and my people would say to me, "Yo Tibbs, you got that one?? Yo, you got that one??" I said, "I don't got this one but I'll get it! I guarantee the next party that I do I'll have that beat!" That's what I did. I would go around searching for beats. I asked DJs, "Yo, I heard this beat that Herc played the other day and I don't know the name of it." Next thing I now (they said to me),"Yeah, that was 
Son Of Scorpio, Tibbs!!!! By Dennis Coffey!" So I said, "Yeah, okay!" BANG!!!! Went downtown, found it....Dennis Coffey.... for a dollar! (chuckles)"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you also used 45s when you were rocking parties? This is very interesting because many out here in Europe thought for a long time that the original DJs from the Bronx only played LPs and 12"s."

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah! Only the original guys like Grandwizard Theodore, Flash, Herc, Bambaataa, Smokey, me..we used 45s. If you had 45s and you were at a party people were like,"Oh man, look! This guy got 45s, man! Yo, where did he get those from?" 45s is classic, man!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"It is also harder to do the backspin with them, right?"

DJ TIBBS:"You had to put a piece of tape on the record when you backspin. There was a certain technique that you had to do. So you would mark the record with a piece of tape, so every time you did the backspin it would help you to do the backspin easily."

45s from DJ Tibbs record collection (note that the artist's name and the song title have been crossed out)

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you decide to take your equipment and your records outside in order to throw parties? The earliest flyer I have seen of you was from 1977 but I guess you were out even earlier, right?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah! I started something like 1975..I was out there throwing parties. What I did was...in 1975 I used to play on the terrace...we lived in the projects so we had a little terrace on the floors. Each floor had a terrace so I would bring two speakers out there on the terrace and the turntables and, you know, throw little Hiphop parties. I lived on the 10th floor so people would hear the speakers. They would be like, "Yo, Tibbs is jamming up there on the terrace!" The terrace was small but it would hold a lot of people. It was packed!!!! You had people dancing and some of them were also breakdancing. Then it got too small so then we started going downstairs in the community room. So then we bought four speakers, tweeters, horns and everything and we charged like 5$ for everybody to come in to the community room. Matter of fact 5$ was a lot of money back then. So if you got 200 people in there you made good money."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which you would reinvest into building up your soundsystem and your arsenal of beats I guess."

DJ TIBBS:"That's right! We used to do parties every week in community rooms and we put the money back into our system and kept buying new records."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you did parties regularly? Like at least one every week?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yes! I wasn't really doing any parties out in the parks yet because people were acting funny and the police also was a problem. If we came out in the park we didn't have no electricity so you had to use the electricity from the street poles or you had to borrow electricity from somebody's house. I started playing in the parks when I met DJ Abel and DJ Formalo. That's when we all started doing parties outside. When they were playing down the block it was like, "Yo, Abel is out there! Oh man!" Then next week it was like, "Yo, Tibbs out there!" People knew us from coming to our parties."

DJ Formalo

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly on Webster Avenue was that community room located at where you used to throw parties?"

DJ TIBBS:"It was on 169th & Webster and it's still there. It's called William Hodson Community Center."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall a spot on Webster called The Cave? DJ Smoke(y) used to rock up there."

DJ TIBBS:"Yes I do. That was down on 167th street. We knew Smokey well because we used to go to Smokey's parties in his house on Grant Avenue and it was packed up there. I mean packed!! Everybody was like, "Yo, Smokey is DJing!!!" "Word? Let's go all up there!!" And he did all this in his house!! At times it was so crowded you couldn't get in!! It was crazy! That's also how I met DJ Charlie Rock. He lived next door to me but I didn't know that he lived next door to me until I went to DJ Smokey's house. It was a big party going on there. I didn't know what was going on but it was a lot of people there. First I met DJ Rob The Gold (Smokey's DJ partner) . I already knew Smokey so then Smokey said, "This is Rob The Gold!" I said,"Rob The Gold from Mount Vernon? I've heard of him." Smokey said,"Yaeh, that's my man from Mount Vernon!" Then Rob The Gold introduced me to Charlie Rock who was with him at the time. He said,"This is Charlie Rock." I said, "Don't I know you from somewhere?" Charlie said,"Yeah, I live on Webster." I said, "I live on Webster, too!" So at that point we became homeboys and we started doing parties together. Later on we added two MCs, one of them was called The Amazing Jeffrey Jeff and the other guy his name was Jay so we called him Jay One. So we had two MCs. It was DJ Tibbs, DJ Charlie Rock and two MCs..The Amazing Jeffrey Jeff and Jay One." 
 

DJ Tibbs & DJ Charlie Rock

SIR NORIN RAD:"But you and DJ Charlie Rock were already DJing before you met at Smoke(y)'s party, right?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah, I was already DJing and so was Charlie Rock. He was down with Rob The Gold first, then he came with me because we were next door neighbours."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when you and Charlie Rock teamed up and began to do parties on Webster and on The Nine was there ever any kind of tension like people trying to snatch your equipment or your records? How did you move your stuff to venues outside of Webster? Did you have people that looked out for you?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yes we did. So what we did was being that we lived in the projects we would get a couple of hand trucks.....remember we used milk crates of records...so we would put everything on hand trucks and roll up everything to The Nine if we was playing there. Everybody knew us, you know? We set everything up and we had a few people that we knew that would stand there and just watch people and tell them, "Yo, back up from the speakers!!! You're coming to close to the speakers!" Or I would get on the microphone (changes his voice),"Please back up from the speakers! Please!" We never really had any trouble. We paid people to stand there behind us so nobody came through the ropes trying to bum rush us. Charlie Rock knew a lot of people from Webster, he had a lot of connections."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were there are any Puerto Ricans at your parties when you started DJing  on Webster in 1975 and 1976?"

DJ TIBBS:"That's a good question. There really wasn't a lot of Puerto Ricans until later. I started seeing more Puerto Ricans as I started playing parties in the clubs. You had the DJs playing in the parks, then from the parks we went into the clubs. Like The Executive Playhouse, The Black Door, 371...those were the spots where DJs was playing at. Now you're getting some perks! Now we're playing in the clubs, we wanna get fresh. Yeah, you wanna show your technique to the people and you wanna get this money! Remember back then when you played in the clubs you had to bring your own soundsystem. Now all you bring is your computer! (laughs)"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So how did that transition from playing in community centers and parks to rocking clubs happen for you? Did you approach the club owners or did they send out people to look for new talent in the streets?"

DJ TIBBS:"Usually...like Grandmaster Flash he had a manager, his name was Ray (Chandler) he knew all the DJs and he knew all the spots. So if you was kool with Ray he would get you into all of these spots. He would do the talking and he would tell you, "Look, man, if you wanna play at the Executive Playhouse...I talked to the guy...all you gotta do is go there, you know, and introduce yourself and give him a flyer from a party that you did and let him know who you are so you can bring the crowd in there and make some money. Usually, when you did that you would bring in about 300 - 400 people. So that was a lot of money. The owner would get half of the money and the DJ would get the other half. It was four of us so we had to split the money four ways. Basically, it was word of mouth. If you was good and you knew people who had the clubs they'll put you in." 

 

July 8th & 15th 1978: DJ Tibbs and his crew are rocking at the legendary Sparkle (flyer by courtesy of Debbie D)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also hand out flyers to advertise your parties that took place on Webster before you moved on to the clubs?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yes! Like DJ Breakout...anytime that he would play I would go there and give out our flyers saying that we would give our party next Saturday or they would even say it on the mic,"Yo, I got Tibby Tibbs in the house! They're playing at this and that place next week! 5$ with a flyer, 10$ without!" Stuff like that which had the people coming to our parties. We also had shirts with our names on it...Tibby Tibbs, Charlie Rock...you know? So people knew who we were."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you had gained the status of a street celebrity after a while?"

DJ TIBBS:"That's what it was all about! When I was ready to come out to do a party I didn't even have to tell people. Just come out, next thing you know, they hear the music, "Tibbs is out there!!!! Oh, man!!!" Once you turned that system on they knew!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What would you consider to be your stomping ground back then? Like at which spots would you and your crew rock on the regular?"

DJ TIBBS:"It'd be Webster....right there in the projects...right there between 169th & 170th. We played right there and everybody knew us. Then the other spot around there would be Claremont Park."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, now please describe how you got into that aforementioned battle with DJ Abel and how it went down? DJ battles back then weren't about displaying the most sophisticated scratching patterns, were they?"

DJ TIBBS:"This is what happened: Let's say DJ Abel he did a party, right?  He's in the park playing, right? Then I would come with my crew, right? And then he plays some beats that I might not have and I'd be like, "Damn, I never heard that one!" So then I go up to him, right? And I'd be like, "Yo Abel, what's the name of that record?" He'd be like, "Yo, I can't tell you the name of that one. So you ain't got that one, huh?" "Nah. That's kool though. You know what? I wanna batte you in about two weeks, man! You're okay with that?" He'd be like, "Yeah, yeah! No problem, man. You'll take your stuff out, I'll take my stuff out, you know? Let's see who got the better beats!" And that's what we did. He did his thing, I did my thing. He played some of his secret beats that I never heard and then I played some of my beats that he never heard before. And the crowd would be like, "Oh man!!!!!!!!!!Yo, Abel!!! Yo Abel got that one??? Yo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come man! Tibbs you gotta get that beat, man!" It was so much fun just  to hear different DJs play different beats that you didn't have. You heard those beats and if it was a good beat you said to yourself,"You know what? I gotta find that beat!!! I gotta wait!" So you would go around ask people. They'd be like, "I don't have it." So then you'd go downtown, "Yo, I'm looking for a record!" You'd go to Disc-O-Mat, Downstairs Records...anywhere where they'd be selling records..that's where you had to go to find those beats." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, I hear you. Still I would like to understand how you managed to find that beat if the DJ who played it in the park refused to let you know its name. I mean unlike today there obviously were no breakbeat compilations out, no breakbeat list on the internet, no youtube nothing......it must have been very hard."

DJ TIBBS:"Thats right. What you had to do was you had to keep going to those parties to hear that beat again and then you would ask one of your crew members to go over there and ask them, "What's the name of that record?" and then see if they'd tell you. Sometimes they would let you know. Like I would send one of my MCees up there, "Go up there and ask the name of that record! I need that record!" He'd be like, "Okay Tibbs, I follow you." He'd go up there, "Yo, yo what's the name of that record?" "Yo man, it's this and that but, yo, don't tell anybody I told you!" They don't know that it's for me, you know? If they still didn't tell you the name you had to use a different approach like trying to peep the album cover. And when I finally found that record I had a big smile on face, I was like, "Yeah!!! I got it!"

SIR NORIN  RAD:"So the competition for beats was really fierce back then?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah, you had to have the beats to move the crowd, to get recognition. Forget about the scratching!!! It was about the beats! You got the beats that's how people knew you."

November 4th, 1978: DJ Tibbs and his crew are rocking at Patterson Community Center on Morris Avenue

SIR NORIN RAD:"And who won that battle between Abel and you?"

DJ TIBBS:"Ahhhhh....I think I won that battle, man! 'Cause I had a lot of records, man. I had a lot of beats. You can tell from all the pictures that I have sent you (Tibbs did indeed impress me with pictures of his huge and exquisite record collection). When I used to do a party  I used to come out with like 10 crates of records!!! You know how many records fit in one crate? You know how heavy one crate is?" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Alright, now for those out there who don't know what a crate is....those were basically milk crates that were originally used by dairy companies to transport milk bottles and that you DJs used to carry your records with you, right?"

DJ TIBBS:"Yeah, yeah..the milk crates! And one milk crate could hold at least 75 albums. So if you're coming out in the parks and you got ten crates..... That was another thing with the battles back then. You would see Abel, see how many crates he got and he got like six. Okay he's good, but now they look at Tibbs. "Yo, Tibbs got twelve crates!!! Yo, Tibbs what you need all these crates for, man??" I was like, "Every crate got different beats in it. That's why we got them out here!" (laughs) The more crates you brought out, the more recognition you got."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long would you play each beat? I have been told that Afrika Bambaataa, The Master Of Records, changed beats like every 2 minutes at his parties. Did you follow a similar procedure since you had so many beats?"

DJ TIBBS:"I would give it like 3 minutes. Yeah, like 3 minutes, real quick.  'Cause you wanna keep the crowd going so you gotta have a continuous beat."

DJ Tibbs and his crew rocking at the New Underground Disco on Prospect Avenue

SIR NORIN RAD:"Alright, now what were your 5 favourite beats back then? I know you don't wanna disclose any secrets in terms of hot beats but what were some of the joints that you really felt?"

DJ TIBBS:"I'mma tell you I got a collection of James Brown records. If you had James Brown you was the man! I still got a collection of James Brown beats right now that a lot of people don't have. Back then you had to have James Brown, you had to!! You had to have the Sex Machine album. You also had to have "Apache"...Later on you had to have "Scratching" by The Magic Disco Machine and "Dance To The Drummer's Beat" by Hermann Kelly. You had to have that. If you didn't have those records back in the day, you wasn't down with the crew."

Gerson King Combo LP out of DJ Tibbs record stash

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which record was very hard for you to get back then?"

DJ TIBBS:"That Baby Huey "Listen To Me"....I got that......that was hard!!! The reason why that record was hard to find was if you look at the album cover they said they had to bury him in a piano case."

SIR NORIN RAD:"It came out after his death."

DJ TIBBS:"Right. That means that there was only a certain amount of copies of it. That record was rare! You know how I got that record? I got my record through a cousin, he had a bunch of vinyls upstairs in his house. I said, "I'm looking for a record. Baby Huey!" This guy was an older guy. At that time he was older than me so he had a lot of records. I'm like 18, 19 years old looking for a record, this guy was in his forties. He found that record in his storage and I said, "Can I buy that record from you, man?" "Nah!" He wouldn't sell it to me so I kept searching around. He showed me the album cover and I kept looking for it til I found it. It was hard, man! I think I found it in some of these record shops up there in Brooklyn." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you would go all the way to Brooklyn to find records?"

DJ TIBBS:"Brooklyn, Long Island, Queens. Everywhere that somebody had told me, "Yo Tibbs, that record store up there in Queens, they got a lot of records, man!"  And sure enough you go out there, "Yo, tons of records!!!" It took me hours to look through these records, man!! That was my career...looking for records and spending money on records."

DJ Tibbs Record Stash

SIR NORIN RAD:"Out here in Germany many DJs are offended if you don't allow them to go through your record stash at a party or if you are not willing to share the titles of the beats that you are playing. They claim that Hiphop was always about being open and sharing everything 
with everyone. What is your take on that? How was this kind of behaviour looked upon back in the days in the Bronx?"

DJ TIBBS:"Nah, nah..that wasn't acceptable. It was every man for himself. You don't tell your stash and you don't let people look through your records. Back in the days no DJ let another DJ look through his records! That's why we scratched some of the records out cause if you come up to the rope and you look at the record you'll be like,"What's the name of the record? I don't see a name on it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you! Now how would you divide up the time behind the turntables at a party between DJ Charlie Rock and you? Did you differ in terms of the type of beats that you played?"

DJ TIBBS:"I all depends on the crowd. Let's say we did a party in a park. We would set up the equipment, right? I would start it off, play some beats....DJ Charlie Rock was more like the Kool Herc type of guy, he played more of the slower beats.  I would let him play for an hour, then he would be like, "Yo Tibbs, I'm done! Get back on the wheels, man! The people wanna see you! Get back on there!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did the invention of the backspin by Grandmaster Flash change the DJ game from your recollection?"

DJ TIBBS:"Before the backspin DJs were just mixing the records. There wasn't any cutting or scratching it was all blend, blend, blend. Then you would get the technique of backspinning because other DJs started doing it.  You saw Grandmaster Flash he was the master..Grandmaster Flash and Grandwizard Theodore those two guys were the masters of the backspin. So that's why DJs started to do the backspin because it was a technique that you had to have when you were doing parties in the park. They wanna see you do that!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"At the end of this interview would you like to shout somebody out?"

DJ TIBBS:"I wanna shout out all the Old School DJs! Grandmaster Caz, that's my friend! Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, Kool DJ Red Alert, DJ Mean Gene, Grandwizard Theodore, DJ Breakout, DJ Smokey...all these Old School DJs that had beats and did parties in the park!"

Interview with MC Stanie Stan (The Supreme Masters)

Stanie Stan (The Supreme Masters)

                                         conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)



SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Boogie Down are you originally?"

STANIE STAN:"I'm originally from the South Bronx...Washington Avenue...170th street...1420, Bronx New York. That's the Claremont Projects, Washington Avenue..that's across from Webster....Webster that's where DJ Tibby Tibbs and DJ Charlie Rock were from."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you pick up the art of MCing? Who inspired you to do that?"

STANIE STAN:"That was MC Cowboy from Grandmaster Flash. That was actually before Mr. Ness joined The 3 MCs and they became The Furious 4. Mr. Ness who later on called himself Scorpio lived in my building at that time...in 1420." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you join the Supreme Masters from John Adams Houses?"

STANIE STAN:"Well, when I went to junior high school I used to write poetry and most of my poetry was in rhymes at that time, you know? So then one day I met Mike Ski (one of the MCs of The Supreme Masters). We went to the same high school..to I.S. 184 which is not too far from John Adams. It was the first year that this school was open, it was a bilingual school. So we both went there together and he had a brother that we hung out with and who was DJing... like in the house. His name was DJ Capricorn. I got to see his equipment and I was like,"Wow! That's kinda interesting!" Mike Ski said to me, "Yo, you're doing poetry...that's the same thing! Just get on the mic and say some of your poetry rhymes!" You know, so I got on the mic and tried it and I liked it and after that I started writing rhymes. He was the one that gave me the name Stanie Stan 'cause I was called Stan The Man. He was like, "Nah, man! Everybody calls himself Stan The Man. Just use something different! Stanie Stan...use that as your MC name!"  I said, "Aight, that'll work!" And he started rhyming at the same time, too but he called himself Mike Ski. It came from the Ski Brothers. It was Mike Ski, Rob Ski and Tip Ski. Rob Ski didn't get down with us but Mike Ski and Tip Ski they became the Ski Brothers. They was known to everybody as the Ski Brothers, they used to rock around John Adams and Tip Ski also became my partner. Tip Ski was from where Kool DJ AJ was from....from Moore Houses. He used to come to where we was at. He saw us and the soundsystem that we used and he kinda liked it. We put him to a test on the mic and I told these guys once we decided to form a group, "Yo, I like the way he rhymes! He should be down with us!" And there was another guy named Gerald that lived in the building across the street. He lived in 700, that's in John Adams...and we called him Holiday. So after that it was me, Mike Ski, Tip Ski, Holiday, DJ Smokey (not to be confused with the legendary DJ Smoke (y) from Grant Avenue), DJ Capricorn. We also had a guy that we called Dondee who used to put the wires together, who made sure that the amp was on, you know stuff like that. Then we had a guy that was called BC. He played guitar so he would add some guitar speakers to our soundsystem. What else? Then we had another guy...he was good with records so he used to help us out with records and stuff. He used to DJ as well, his DJ name was DJ Savoir Faire...he was from Manhattan but he used to always come down with us.  And then Kool DJ AJ (RIP) of course... he used to live on St. Mary's...he used to come through and check out other groups trying to find talent. So he came through one time and he saw us in the park  and he liked the way we played and he was like, "I'm gonna put you guys under my wing. I'm gonna bring you with me to the clubs and stuff like that!" So he would take us to the clubs to perform there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"You also had a DJ called Shane, right?"

STANIE STAN:"Yeah, DJ Shane...we called him The Spinmaster. At that time those three DJs were the best to me....when we came out...'cause we stayed undefeated. Everywhere we went, we played..no one could defeat us. We had tapes all over the places. There are a couple of records out there that people actually stole our rhymes. At that time we didn't know about copyright. I don't even wanna say the names of the groups that took our stuff. Yeah, so our DJs had three different styles of DJing. They all were nice!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So who was the founding father of the Supreme Masters?"

STANIE STAN:"DJ Smokey..'cause he was really the one who had equipment before Capricorn and Mike Ski had it. We used to go to his house first. He was the one who started with the turntables and stuff like that, yeah."

SIR NORIN RAD:"And when did the Supreme Masters form as a group?"

STANIE STAN:"About 1977/78....before we started playing at clubs we used to play in the streets...you know, hook up our stuff to a lamp post. We used to go to different places. We used to go to Forest (Houses), we used to go to Castle Hill, battle guys up there. Then later on when people asked us about doing records we didn't care about that.We did it for the love of it...for the good times...we only wanted to make some money, get the girls, get high, that's about it. To be frank."    

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the stomping ground of the Supreme Masters?"

STANIE STAN:"We owned John Adams park. That was our park. You couldn't come in there and play music without battling us. That park was right there between 700 and 720."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Now as far as the MC section of the Supreme Masters is concerned who was the leader of that?"

STANIE STAN:"Well, I was the leader....'cause they put me as the leader. I actually put the MCs together. I picked Holiday, I picked Mike Ski and I put Tip Ski down. I was the one who thought of most of our routines, I'm the one who told everybody to write rhymes. I was the one who had the microphones and if you wasn't doing well...like if you was stuttering on the mic or you wasn't delivering your rhymes correctly because you had drunk too much or whatever I would tell you to take a seat...I was like,"Yo, you gotta get off the mic. The rest of us will take over till you got yourself together!" I was the one that got the routines together, you know, the dance steps...stuff like that. As I said we played mostly outside but in 1979 we performed at places like the Celebrity Club, the Audubon Ballroom, the Sparkle."

April 15th, 1979: The Supreme Masters perform at the Celebrity Club

SIR NORIN RAD: "How much effort would you put into your stage shows?"

STANIE STAN:"Believe it or not, we practiced everyday! I stopped going to school just to practice. That's why we were one of the best. Our routines were tight, our DJs were tight...as I said we had Dondee who was like our engineer and he also was like our record boy. He actually got the records and set them up. He had to make sure that he watched our crates so that nobody would steal our records. You know, he would also cover the labels up so that nobody saw the labels and knew what our beats were, you know what I mean? We would practice everyday, we just cut classes and we would practice. After we left junior high school me and Mike Ski went to Samuel Gompers High School. Keith Keith from The Funky Four went there as well. I was a little older than him. Him and K.K. Rockwell knew me and I would go to their parties and listen to DJ Breakout and DJ Baron. They had the Mighty Sasquatch soundsystem and they had the Funky Four with Sha Rock. That was like the first I had ever seen a female MC and I was like, "Wow, she's kinda nice!" You know, she was even better than some of the guys. So I said, "Yo, we gotta tighten up!" That was also the first time that I ever heard the echo chamber after they had Sha Rock. I was like, "Wow, they have an echo chamber!" And they had these McIntosh horns on stands and they also had mic stands. So, you know, they went from holding regular microphones to microphone stands where they was like a group. Like The Temptations! So I was like, "They got microphone stands and everything. We gotta get some routines together and stuff like that!" We had three DJs because Grandmaster Flash used to have three DJs at one time ( Grandmaster Flash, Disco Bee, DJ EZ Mike) and in the beginning he had three MCs so we had four...one more. Then later they got four MCs and then they got five 'cause you know Rahiem left The Funky Four and joined Flash and them. They changed from Furious Four to Furious Five."

 

April 13th, 1979: The Supreme Masters peform at the Audubon Ballroom

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where would you practice at? Would you practice at your crib because you were the captain of the MCs or would you practice at Smokey's house?"

STANIE STAN:"Remember I lived on 170th & Washington Avenue...Claremont....on the other side. I used to go to John Adams so much that people thought I lived over there. That's how much I practiced over there...every day!! To this day some people probably gonna say, "Stanie Stan lived over here." I never lived over there. I used to spend the nights, stay over there. So we used to practice at Smokey's house. Smokey lived on 13B, Dondee lived on 10A and Capricorn and Mike Ski lived on 12B (all in the same building). So we used to pracice at Mike's and Capricorn's house. Their mother went to work like 8 o'clock in the morning. We played in there to like 3 o'clock, act like we went to school. We would also practice at Smokey's house. 13B. He had all the equipment but sometimes it was hard for us to take all the equipment and go downstairs to Mike's & Cap's house. So we was like, "Nah, let's keep it up there!" And then we would practice in Smokey's house. A lot of times though when we took the equipment downstairs to Mike Ski's and Capricorn's we had almost like a little party there...we called it hookie party.  We had everybody from the neighbourhood that didn't go to school come in, smoke weed, drinke 40 oz of Old English, you know what I mean, and party with us. So that's how we got good, that's why our routines were so good because we hit them where they was at. They let you do your thing because they liked you. So we were like, "Now we're set! Now we can go outside!"That's how we did!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"You said that you would also incorporate dance steps into your live show. So does that mean that MCing wasn't just about rapping?"

STANIE STAN:"Nah, nah, nah......even the clothes that we wore!!!  You couldn't just wear regular clothes as a MC. You had to come out looking like a star! We used to starch our pants! You know, the jeans? The crease was so tight it stuck out.  We used to wear hats. All the fresh stuff that you had, you wore that. You couldn't come out looking like you just came home from work. You had to look like you're a star."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also come out with a uniform look sometimes? Like wearing sweaters in the colour?"

STANIE STAN:"Sometimes we came out with the jeans with our names written on the side. We were one of the first guys starting the graffiti writing on the sides of our pants. We had the name of our crew on the side of our pants and we had the jacket and the hat to match. It was done by a graffiti artist ( a writer)..I forgot his name. Later on you would see a lot of other groups like The Funky Four...they started doing designs on their pants. A lot of other crews also started wearing tuxedos...they started getting fresh....you know, like the Cold Crush. Everybody was fresh back then. You wore the best stuff that you had. Leather pants...you know, you had your medallions. At that time you had silver medallions. Silver was big back then. You had your silver medallion on and, you know, your house medallion. Back then you had to be clean. Put it that way. " 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So looking fly was an integral part of being a MC?"

STANIE STAN:"You had to be fly! Like I said....everything that was hot back then..if you're a MC you should have it. If it was Cazals, you should have Cazals. If it was Kangols, you should have Kangols. If it was Super Pro-Keds, you should have Super-Pro-Keds. They shouldn't be dirty, they should be fresh out the box!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let's talk about the coreography that you used for your live shows back then. What was it like?"

STANIE STAN:"We had choreography stuff like a mix of The Temptations and The Jackson Five. Do a few steps, turn around, spin..you know, stuff like that. We even had a thing with our DJ. Basically what the DJ's would do was play a breakbeat and turn the music off then he would count in his head till he get to the breakbeat then he would hit the mixer and beat would be on time. And at that time the crowd would be amazed so it look like he wasn't counting it just look like he just walked away from turntable "

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would a typical rehearsal of the Supreme Masters go do down back then? Were there any rules that had to be observed and that were enforced by you as the leader of the crew?"

STANIE STAN:"Yeah! It was like...if you didn't show up on time or stuff like that a lot of times you had to sit down...like a punishment..you won't get on the mic that day.  You just sit there and watch the rest of us practice. Next time when you're on time you'll be part of the routine but right now you don't seem like you wanna get down. They left that up to me, they was like, "Yo, you gotta get these guys tight!" These three guys were tight as DJs. They worked together on their stuff, you know?  So while they were practicing their tricks and all that stuff, you had me and the other MCs get together on the other side. They would say to us, "Listen, we got a new beat. Check out this new beat! Would you guys like to do something with this beat?" So we would be like, "Yeah, we could do something with that! We gonna do a rehearsal." Everybody would contribute ideas. Like,"Yo, I like this beat! We could to this....blah, blah, blah" So then we would say,"Okay, we gonna try this out. We'll work on it today and tomorrow and Thursday we gonna bring some people upstairs and we gonna try this routine out and if they don't like then we're not going to do it outside in the park." People would come to our crib and we would ask them, "Yo,  you like that routine?" And they'd be like,"The first routine you did was hot, the second routine...I don't know man..it was kinda weak. The first one was dope, you should do that!"So I was like, "Oh really, okay we gonna keep that one and we gonna trash the second one." Sometimes we would try to fix it up though. It actually took sometimes a week or two before we got to the point where everybody knew their rhymes because remember at time it was a lot about harmony. Like if I say a rhyme, you say that rhyme at the same time. Stuff like you see the basketball players now doing handshakes. People were like, "Wow, that's wild! They are all doing the handshake at the same time?" You know, it was a little something that made that made us look like we were tight...which we were!!"
 

The DJs of the Supreme Masters setting up their equipment in John Adams Park

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was in charge of providing your crew with new beats?"

STANIE STAN:"It was everybody! Everybody helped us. If he hears something that is funky he brings it to us and we check it out. I brought that Ottis Redding beat "Tramp".....back before they was playing it. DJ Savoir Faire...he was from Manhattan so he would always bring us Manhattan beats  that hadn't gotten to the Bronx yet. He was like, "Yo, this is what they're playing Uptown!" We'd be like, "Word? Show us!" He'd be like, "Yo, this is the beat! Check it out!" He was DJing, too, so he had a lot of beats. But everybody chipped in with beats. And a lot of times we would go to other DJs jams and we would listen to the stuff they played. Then we had Stanley Patron a drummer that played for Evelyn Champagne King that gave us a lot of beats 'cause  he had a Billy Cobham record called "Pocket Change" that we used to play all the time. It was a drumbeat that he used to practice off. He told us, "Yo, you gotta use this beat! Nobody has this!" That was our secret weapon. When we brought that up we were the first ones with that record. Cats were like,"What the hell are these guys playing?"A lot of people used to come to our parties like Grandmaster Flash, Busy Bee Starksi, Lovebug Starski..Then there was DJ Supreme from Forest with his crew. They had a crazy soundsystem!!! It was off the chain! They kinda ruled Forest but we ruled John Adams. We was so good! There was a gang called The Wales Crew from around there. Back then there were many of these gangs...like Grandmaster Flash had the Casanovas. So when we played in John Adams they were like, "Yo, this our block. We run things over here!" They were the big gang over there...terrorizing...you know, doing whatever they got to do. They asked us,"So you are the Supreme Masters? Can we use your name ?" So they changed their name to Supreme Wales Crew and they used to be at all our jams. They were like our protectors...if any other crews (gangs) came in there and tried to start fuck with us...you know, they would just look out for us. They made sure nothing jumped off or chased the guys out of there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"And I guess they would also protect your equipment?"

STANIE STAN:"Yeah, back then you had people who would take your stuff so they made sure nobody took our equipment after it was all over and we had to pack it up and take it upstairs. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where would you draw your inspirations for routines from?"

STANIE STAN:"We would even take nursery rhymes and if it sounded good enough we would make a routine out of it. We would keep the melody but just change the words."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also use songs that were played on the radio like the Cold Crush Four did?"

STANIE STAN:"Yeah, we would take some stuff that was played on the radio, too. Like "Rock The Boat" by The Hues Corporation. Even commercials....like we had a routine from The Adams Family. We used to make our rhymes off to that."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Since you had three DJs in your crew how would they divide up the time on the turntables between each other when you were rocking in John Adams Park?"

STANIE STAN:"It was according to who was actually hot that day, like who was really on point that day. DJ Capricorn used to stay on more than everybody else 'cause he was the one that practiced the most. That's why his name stayed on top over everybody. DJ Smokey was second and then DJ Shane was like the last. Certain beats Shane could cut like unbelievable, certain beats he was just good with. So he would be the last, he was like the anchor. So when he got on he just tore the show up 'cause we would cut the records that he could play best. Capricorn always set it off and got everybody hyped up. He was the one that a lot of people like myself would MC for first. Then we switched back and forth. You know, I would rhyme a little bit for Smokey and then I would rhyme a little bit for Shane."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you would rhyme together as a MC unit as well as individually to showcase your skillset, is that correct?"

STANIE STAN:"Right, right, we would do our group thing  then we would stop the group thing where everybody would do their solo stuff to show how nice you are as a MC. Then there was nobody there and it was all on you. Like can you hold your yourself? And we all could hold us on our own!! Me and Tip Ski were the two best MCs of the group and so we would travel to other places challenging and battling other MCs. Mike Ski and Holiday wouldn't come with us. We got on other people's systems and destroyed their MCs. Back then it was like, "Oh you think you're better than my MCs?" And we'd be like, "Yeah, we're better than you guys!" And so we got on there solo and destroyed them."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How were these solo MC battles done back then? Was it like today? No beats and abusing and threatening each other verbally?"

STANIE STAN:"No, you would do it over beats! Whatever beat there was! A lot of times you didn't get the chance to choose your beat let alone your DJ. And so the other DJ might play some whack ass beat to make you look bad. So you had to have the skills to take that whack beat and make it phat, you know what I mean?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"And crews used to battle each other with their whole performance, right?"

STANIE STAN:"That's right! And it wasn't about fighting...at the end of the day we were shaking hands and we'd be like,"Yo, you're nice!" or "You know what? We would like to battle you guys next week!"  So you would go home and practice and then you'd go back and try to win. Back then it wasn't about dissing...I mean you might say some little things but most of the time it was all about how nice your rhymes were. We wasn't really going to like talking about your mother or your sister.  You would talk about your yourself. Like, "I'm this and that! I'm the nicest out here! Nobody can touch me!"One of my rhymes was like, "If you wondering just who I am..party people, they call me Stanie Stan! Now let me tell you just what I gonna do, I'm gonna do a little something just for you! I'm gonna rap on this mic and make you all dance! But all you gotta do is just give me a chance! Now to prove my point in my own way,  well I'm Stanie Stan y'all and I'm here to stay! I was born in Savannah, Georgia and raised in the Bronx and this is the way I learn to rock the spot Some people say I'm on then on, when I rap on the mic till the break of dawn. You know, stuff like that! That was one of the rhymes from back in the days. It was clean, no cursing and we just had fun. That's what it was all about. Telling you who was the best, who was the nicest."

SIR NORIN RAD:"After a while the Supreme Masters would add another MC to its roster namely Sham La Rock. How and when did he join your crew?"

STANIE STAN:"Sham La Rock joined the crew around 1979. We've been friends since the third grade. I told him how to write rhymes he was always around the crew since day one so he want to be a part of the team so we put him down. And believe it or not he was crazy nice on the microphone!"

The Supreme Masters: (standing from left to right) DJ Shane, DJ Capricorn, Mike Ski (kneeling from left to right) Sham La Rock, Stanie Stan

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long did the Supreme Masters last? You said you started in 1977..."

STANIE STAN:"1977.We lasted until about maybe 1980, 81. I'm trying to think of when the Crash Crew record (High Power Rap) came out. When the Crash Crew record came out we was kinda breaking up then. Tip Ski kept going and he later on joined DJ Supreme."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like for you to be at a park jam back then in the 1970ies and early 1980ies?"

STANIE STAN:"Listen, man, we loved the park so much! It was like your second home. Especially if it was yours. Every DJ had his own park. John Adams Park was our park. Even if it was raining...after it had stopped raining people used to go like, "Yo, come on! You guys need to come outside! We're bored, we ain't got nothing to do." They used to sweep the rain off the ground. They were like, "We gonna sweep the ground off so you guys can play. We'll get you weed, we'll get you beer..."We were famous! Playing in the park was fantastic 'cause you got everybody there..from different places, from different projects to hear you play. And you know, they show you love. When you're good, you're good. As they came you would see the crowd get bigger, bigger and bigger."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What I would like to know is how did you move your equipment and your records crates to the park? I figure you had people from outside of your crew helping you with that, right? But weren't you worried that they might check out the records that you got?"

STANIE STAN:"A lot of times we had people from the building helping us but we ourselves also moved our own stuff 'cause you couldn't trust nobody moving your crates, you know? Speakers is fine but we moved our crates. Dondee and BC would watch our crates. You had them standing on both sides of the crates. Dondee was standing on one side, BC was standing on the other side.. making sure nobody stole our records because they would steal your records in a minute. They would try to get behind the ropes so we told people, "Stay behind the ropes because we don't know who you are so we don't want you behind the ropes!" Because you could take two records and these might be two records that we can't find anymore. So we only let people that we knew behind the ropes."   

SIR NORIN RAD:"What would have happened back then if somebody that wasn't down with you had tried to go through your records in order to know what beats you had? Was that permissible?"

STANIE STAN:"Nah, that's a disrespect!  You are NOT going to people's crates, you DON'T ask people what the names of the records are! Get the hell outta here!!! Nobody that you are not kool with goes behind the ropes, NOBODY touches the records.....or stealing another MC's rhymes. You could get beat up for that! Usually it was like, "Yo, I heard this guy say your rhyme!" So you're listening to that (live) tape and you be like, "Yo, that's my rhyme!" So you'd go over there and be like, "Yo, my man! If you say my rhyme again you gonna get problems!" You stole nobody's stuff. You had to be original. You never stole nobody's routines, you stole nobody's style!! That's how you knew who were who. Different styles, different rhymes and different routines. That's why you had people travelling to different places to see these guys. You'd be like, "I'mma see Grandmaster Flash and his MCs!" or "I'mma see the Soul Sonic Force!" At one time the Soul Sonic Force had damn near twenty MCs ! You couldn't come to the park sounding like somebody else. People would tell to your face, "Oh, you sound like Busy Bee!" You know what I mean? "Oh you sound like Melle Mel!" "Ah man, I heard that rhyme before!" You had (live) tapes out there, too. So after a while you'd hear tapes of all these parties and you'd hear somebody saying your stuff. And you'd be like, "Oh, man!" But then (rap) records came out and that kinda messed a lot of MCs up because a lot of (rap) records that came out, they bit...we call it biting.....they took stuff from a lot of MCs!"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Like the Sugarhill Gang took rhymes from Grandmaster Caz...how did you and the people that were around you feel when "Rapper's Delight" came out?"

STANIE STAN:"Everybody that was a DJ or a MC was upset like, "These guys were never heard of!" Nobody knew who they were or where they came from. To be the face of Hiphop as we call it today....we were like,"They're gonna be the face of  what we started? Of something that we cared for and loved and took time to actually be an artform????? We said, "No way! Hell no!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your three favourite beats to rap to back then?"

STANIE STAN:"My favourite one was Edwin Starr "I Just Wanna Do My Thing!" That was my favourite cause I used to like the bassline (hums the bassline). Then "Scratching" (by Magic Disco Machine) and then it was another one called "Get Happy" by Jimmy Bo Horne." Yeah, I liked that one! James Brown...."The Funky President"! That one is a classic! That's a beat I think most MCs back then loved it. You could do all kinds of routines and rhymes off that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"In your opinion who were the three best MCs in the Bronx back then in the era of original MCing?" 

STANIE STAN:"My top three MCs in the Bronx are Grandmaster Caz, Melle Mel and Rahiem."

                          Interview with the legendary DJ/MC Coke La Rock (The Herculords)

DJ / MC Coke La Rock

                                      conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)


SIR NORIN RAD:"Where in the Bronx did you live at when you started doing parties with Kool DJ Herc?"

COKE LA ROCK:"I lived on the Westside of the Bronx.... mainly coming off 174th and then you got a place called Featherbed Lane 'cause I came out of a block called Jesup Avenue....and that's in the Bronx....the West Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you get involved with Kool DJ Herc's parties in that recreation  room on 1520 Sedgwick Avenue?"

COKE LA ROCK:"That came about because we became friends more closer before he even started giving the parties because Herc used to always travel over to the Eastside of the Bronx and I came from the Westside so...at that particular time, you know, it was a lot of parties. You might have seven parties on the weekend. We got a little closer, you know, through basketball and stuff like that and then when he was giving a party for his sister.. which was what it was..then he said he was giving a party. So as far as back then..this is the early 70ies like..you knew when somebody was having a party and he was like, "Coke, come to the party!" Which we knew the neighbourhood...most of the people in the neighbourhood came 'cause there are a lot of people today saying they was at Kool Herc's party but they wasn't there!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which role played your MCing for the parties of Kool DJ Herc?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Okay, first it kinda came out of me just calling out my friends' names 'cause we was real young guys. We was 16, 17 and when my friends be inside the party I used to call their names out to tell 'em,"Go! Move your car!" We wasn't even old enough to have a car! So when the girls heard like you had to go out there to move your car the girls be like,"Uh, he got a car!" I would give all my friends cars so about seven of us woul d have cars. I mean we were under 17 we ain't got no money, we ain't got no cars but they would act like they would go outside. So it kinda started from just joking amongst friends. You know, making it feel like cheers before it was cheers when they call out your name. Because at that time nobody talked about no mic...you have to be truthful..especially young guys, you know? Cause that was the Disco Era. Our Hip Hop..you know, the music Herc was playing, that I was playing.. was totally new but in my neighbourhood you had a lot of parties, you had a lot of talent shows. So the Bronx had a lot going on besides the fires and it being, you know, what it was."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. How did it evolve then from calling out your friends to more elaborate rhyme patterns?" 

COKE LA ROCK:"Back then I didn't have what other guys have..like what I consider now...like you got a DJ and a MC..back then it wasn't a name, it wasn't even popular to be playing music! So when we started doing it...as the parties got bigger I started talking more  but I had to distinguish myself from Kool Herc because people thought I was Kool Herc!!! 'Cause I didn't have a name! I didn't take on a name till about the third club. I didn't become Coke La Rock till we went to a club called The Hevalo. So people didn't really realize who I was. Really a lot of this MCing came from me letting you know who I was. Just like I had to start saying, "Let me introduce myself..I am Coke La Rock!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when your rhymes started to evolve did you write them down before you performed them or would you make them up at the moment when you were on the mic?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, I DID EVERYTHING FREESTYLE. I didn't write 'em in a book, I didn't prepare, I ain't even practiced!!! I'm not being funny but I was talking straight up!  That's why I had to start dressing and looking different 'cause if you are getting money in New York you gotta look the role. The rhymes came out because like I said I'm telling you who I am. I can say it now! (starts rapping) I'm the first G -Money Man! I keep a G or better any type of weather! Cold or hot, rain or not! Coke La Rock was born an orphan,  fought like a slave! Fucking and fighting, is all Coke La Rock play! If a freak is unique, then that's the freak you seek!  As long as the music is non-stopping, the rocks are dropping, the champagne is flowing, the women be going! Hotel, motel, you don't tell, we don't tell!  Now this is 1973!! "

SIR NORIN RAD:"That's nice!"

COKE LA ROCK: "See, I was before my time!"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you have a specific record that you would use to deliver your rhymes?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Nah, none of that! Rap records wasn't out then!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I know..I don't mean Rap records but did you have a specific record to..."

COKE LA ROCK:"Talk over?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yeah!"

COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, yeah! I had certain ones. My favourite record was "T Plays It Cool"

SIR NORIN RAD:"By Marvin Gaye..."

COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah!! I used to open up with that! Then I'd go into Cymande..."Bra"...My main man was Eddie Kendricks. You know,  I was more the R&B side of Hip Hop! That's what cats don't even realize!!! You know, Donald Byrd!!!! Michael Henderson!!! You know, Teddy Pendergrass!!! And then people don't realize even after the club I was one of the first cats..as a young guy..playing in after hour spots with Big Willies. The guys that come in these spots and gamble with 100000$! And I'm playing in there from four in the morning till three in the afternoon! You understand? That was the Nicky Barnes (notorious gangster from New York City) era. I was with the youngest guys who were part of this organization getting money. The young guys I was with they were getting ten, twenty, thirty thousand a week. These guys are 16 years old. I thought drugs was legal! I didn't come from that kind of family. I wasn't born in the streets but I learnt the streets, you know? You wanna call it what it is. Now even the swag they claim I had....I had it because I played both sides of the fence where I felt I'm a good guy in the street. Growing up in the 70ies you had to fight good, look good, get money or be a pretty boy carrying his weight. That's what got you over..just like on your block, you had to be strong on your block."


SIR NORIN RAD:"Nowadays rappers all over the world use that phrase "Rock on!" when they are performing live on stage, even those who are not fluent in English. Is it true that you are the one who came up with that?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Yes! Cause it really went to "Rock and you don't stop!" And then I was the Echo chamber like how the guys used it, "Ni**er, rock rock rock!!!!!!" I used to say, "I go by the name of Coke La Rock Rock Rock Rock!!!! Kool DJ Herc Herc Herc!!!!" I had imitated the machine. The same way the guys did the beat box and this and that, I was the Echo chamber. See I never even took credit for that!"


SIR NORIN RAD:"Wait a minute! You mean even before guys used the echo chamber machine for their live performances you were already using that effect?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, I invented the echo chamber! I talked like the echo chamber! They don't know me, man!!! I'mma tell you the truth...I stopped before guys became who they are. I got so much in me. You see, they tried to erase me from history. They say, "I am Hip Hop!" I AM HIP HOP!!! 


SIR NORIN RAD: "No doubt! So how did the crowd respond when you were rocking on the turntables and kicking your rhymes at Kool DJ Herc's parties?"


COKE LA ROCK:"The crowd..you know what woke me up to that? Guys like Chip, like Sasa and them...when I was playing real good I could tell because they would always look at me and they would say, "Coke, rock these motherfuckers! Man, rock the spot, La Rock!!!" That's what people used to holler at me. So when they started doing that I was like, "Man, I must be tearing them up!" I know who I am. If I wasn't that guy that they say I am where did T La Rock, RC La Rock,  Scott La Rock get their names from? There's about thirty, forty people that put La Rock on their name. That is my pat! I created that name through my mind! That was a vision I had over night. So again you don't take on a cat's name if he's not that cat."


SIR NORIN RAD:"Now you are also credited by many for having introduced the aspect of dressing fly into Hip Hop. How important was it to dress fly with regards to your position as DJ and MC for Kool Herc?"


COKE LA ROCK:"Growin up then I established myself as a good guy but I could be the good, the bad or the ugly and that's survival!! I could be as good as you want me to be and be as bad and get as ugly as you get! And street status!!! This why I say guys wanted to beat me. I'm walking around with 350 $ shoes, I'm walking around with 200 $ pants, 250 $ shirts, I'm walking around with 1200 $ coats. I was buying cars when guys had bikes. You had to dress up! When you are looking at the movies that came out back then...I kinda mastered myself behind "The Mack" (famous Blaxploitation movie from 1973 starring Max Julien as the pimp Goldie). I loved that movie! That was my movie! I used to go see it every year even when they stopped playing it...they would always play it down 42nd street for one week before New Year. That was my movie! I wouldn't try to be a pimp I just liked the style. And then back then in Harlem everybody dressed! You know, that showed you got money! Nobody could say you're getting money and you're looking like a bum!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I heard you mentioning that store A.J. Lester in that interview you did with DJ Kay Slay...what was it like to shop there?"


COKE LA ROCK:"Okay, shopping at AJ Lester's meant that you was on another status in the streets...of getting money. Cause the cheapest shirt in there was 100 $.. your underwear in there was 50$! Shopping at A. J. Lester's...it was a thing with A.J. Lester...you go there and it's expensive on the first floor but if  you are spending over 2000 $ or better you go downstairs and meet Mr. Lester. This where you see real fly clothes and Mr. Lester he would tell you, "If you see somebody with that suit on or that shirt that you bought from me I'll give you your money back." That's what A.J. Lester was about. When you wear a A.J. Lester shirt at a party and there are 1000 people in there you bet that you will not see another person with it on. You never wanna look like the next cat. That's where that style came from! And I mean I changed my clothes every week. You couldn't wear the same thing every week! (laughs) You feel me!?? I had 20 pairs of Pumas that was all flavors! I had seven pairs of lizards! All flavors!"


SIR NORIN RAD:"What about your coat game?"


COKE LA ROCK:"Listen....when cats was wearing snorkel coats....just to show you how far it went...even when they wore regular Cortefiels  I had a Cortefiel blazer...I had the soft Cortefiel, most cats just had hard Cortefiels....I had the Cortefiel with my name inside my lining. Then when cats was wearing shearlings I had a pony coat. Cats didn't know what a pony coat is, you would think there was a gorilla on my back!"


SIR NORIN RAD:"Was it also possible to get custom made gear at A.J. Lester's?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Nah, I mean A.J. Lester's really wasn't the custom made spot. You had a spot called Mr. Tony's and Mr. Orry's. Them was two taylor made spots where you gotta pay 250, 300 $ to get your pants made. That's where you get your pepper silk pants made any way you want it. I used to get pants made with one pocket. I went ballistics with it. A. J. Lester's was the regular spot with all the new stuff from Italy and wherever they was getting their clothes from. But if you wanted it taylor made you went to a spot called Mr. Tony's or Mr. Orry's."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have heard Kool Herc and others (shout outs to Zulu King Cholly Rock) mentioning a brand called Blye that was popular back then. What was that about?"

COKE LA ROCK:"To me they were Italian Knit shirts. They gave diffent names to them back then like Blyes, Alpacas..."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was there any kind of tension at those Kool Herc parties? Like stick up kids that would try to get you for your gear or your crew's equipment?"


COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, it was always tension. Okay, now that you ask that part which is correct.....but listen to this: When guys had zip guns....guys used to make a gun with rubberband, wood and stuff like that....and they had guns that were falling apart..I call them musket rifles...back then I had a 38, a 45 and a 12 gauge..brand new!  I had too much artillery, I could fight a war. I'm not bragging on it. I didn't play with the street....I was a street guy.. I learnt from the street."


SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess carrying weapons was a necessity for you back then because you never knew what might happen at a party?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Listen..I had a saying: It's better for the police to catch me with it than the stick up guys catch me without it. You feel me?"


SIR NORIN RAD:"As for your DJing I have been told that you were also known for regularly playing slow jams back then.Could you please elaborate on that?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah listen, I'm the only guy that ever played slow music at Herc's parties. Every time at 2 o'clock I would play the Delfonics "For The Love That I Gave" and most of the time I would follow with Smokey Robinson "Here I Go Again".  Smokey Robinson was my guy, The Whispers, Blue Magic. Every Kool Herc party, I don't care! I played a lot of slow music. This is when B-Boys would start dancing with the women. At our parties you still had to know what a woman is about. This is also what I was listening to at home. When I was home I never listened to fast music. I listened to love music. That was me more. It soothed me."


SIR NORIN RAD:"I think that's what is missing today in Hip Hop."


COKE LA ROCK:"It's missing and you are right it's missing. That's why they're beating up women more than hugging and feeling them. They don't know what that feeling is about."


SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, what were some of the B-Boy Joints that you introduced to Hip Hop? Sasa told me that he especially enjoyed it when you were rocking on the turntables back then."

COKE LA ROCK:"Man, I played "Shaft In Africa" by Isaac Hayes...that was a B-Boy record! I played Earth, Wind & Fire...they had a record called "Power"....or the TNT Band...my favourite record! "This is the Meditators speaking..." They called it "Meditation". I used to introduce myself with that...it used to go, "This is the Meditators speaking...". Then I played a joint from The Last Poets.."My Pretty Nigger" and it'd say on it "Hevalo....pretty ni**er". I used to cut in my cuts, you know? 


SIR NORIN RAD:"Herc is famous for coming up with that Merry Go Round Technique which focusses on what is known today as the breakpart of a record. Like he would take the break of "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose" and match that with the break of "Bongo Rock" for the B-Boys to go off to. Has that part always been called "the break" or did you use a different term?"

COKE LA ROCK:"I didn't classify it as a name other than like you said we called it "The Merry Go Round". To me it was catching beats. What made me learn a little better than guys...when Herc and us played we didn't even have a cueing.. I had to learn by seeing the groove in the record. So without a cueing learning to see the groove, remembering where the groove is, listening to the groove as you're mixing it with the next record made it more perfect when we  eventually changed over and got a cueing. After that..you know I could already see it with my eye but once I could hear it, it made everything too sharp! That's when Coke La Rock just took off 'cause now I ain't gotta look, I could hear it..I can put the headphones on. Just like back then when guys had headphones...we were the first guys with the telephone hooked up to the box where we were listening to it through the box, through the headphone..we did that! We had the first 8 milimeter movie, we showed that at one of our parties at the same time. We were one of the first guys starting giving back (to the community)...we gave out 100 records, we used to give free parties, we used to give catered food, we played in everybody's recreation room, we gave back!! We're the ones who started to play in high schools....Roosevelt High School, James Monroe...If you came from the BX and you ain't go to a Kool Herc party, then you ain't at a party growing up in the Bronx!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"And you've just said that you would show a movie at your parties?"

COKE LA ROCK:"8 milimeter movie! Herc's father taped one of the parties at the recreation room (on 1520 Sedgwick Avenue). That's why I say the guys...I have to call them the Lying Kings...most of the guys who say they was there, they wasn't there! The 8 milimeter movie...I don't know if Kool Herc got it put out somewhere but it could be.. you look at that movie you won't see too many guys in there but Coke La Rock is in there!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"May I ask why you and Herc only stayed for relatively brief time at The Twilight Zone before moving on to The Hevalo?"

COKE LA ROCK:"We started at the Twilight Zone. From the Twilight Zone we went down the block. Now what happened with us moving a lot was guys...like I said me and Herc were like 17, we're young but the money being made through the parties was in thousands of dollars even though it was a three dollar party. So a lot of times guys was like, "We gonna fix the club up.  We gonna do this, we gonna do that!" And all they did was taking the money and run off with it. After a while..like once we see you do nothing to your club to make it better..we move on..we knew you're just talking and playing us. That's why a lot of times we would switch clubs."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How much of the money you made went into Kool Herc's soundsystem?"

COKE LA ROCK:"That was the whole thing! When I first got with Herc I didn't take a paycheck from Herc for a whole year or two. Like I said I'm getting money through what I do. The main thing was...the first thing you do is build up your equipment, you know? That was Herc's dream, "I wanna get this equipment!" So all the money went towards getting equipment. So once we got the equipment real quick..cause most guys didn't have money, young guys...and once we did that we outsurpassed everybody! Because people didn't really know from some three dollars we're making nine and ten thousand dollars! People didn't know what we made at the party, it can come out now but back then...after about the second year (1975) we were the number one target for the stick up guys. Like, "Yo, we gotta try and get Herc and them!" But I knew too many street people who used to call me. Even though Biggie and them rapped on records about they're coming get you..that's what they used to do to me. Guys would call me all the time, "Coke, some cats in my neighbourhood they are gonna try to get you tonight!" This is why I always kept my gun. I don't wanna put this as no gangster..no glamourizing...but I was like this, "If you wanna take it, you better catch us right!"  I ran like that, you know?"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"What would have happened back then if somebody had tried to violate ropes at your party?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Nah, nah, they wouldn't cross the ropes. Everybody knew that! I used to tell you,"If you cross the ropes, you might get death!" And then I had a couple of henchmen with me...I had a guy a called Diamond D which is DJ Baron's brother, my man Hassan and a couple of other guys who would stop that from happening, like before you even get close. We had to do this because back in our day cats would just snatch your equipment, they'd stand behind it and before the party is over they might shoot off a bullet to panic everybody and then the guys would snatch your stuff. This is what made us rope our stuff off because you're not taking nothing. You had to see what's coming your way."


SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were also the ones who introduced the ropes as a means to keep cats away from your soundsystem?"


COKE LA ROCK:"Yes! The rope gotta come and give you like 10, 15 feet. You gotta get yourself that space because once they're on top of you, like what you're feeling....and then you gotta separate who belong around you. Like I remember one time I had to make guys jump off the stage. Herc had about ten guys up on stage, standing around. Herc called me up on stage to play. So when I came up he left, he went to the front door to watch the door. I said, "Listen, fellas! I don't know y'all  and I don't mean no disrespect but you gotta leave!" They looked at me and said, "Fuck you, man! Herc said I could be here." So I said, "I'm Herc's partner. I'm asking you brothers to leave!" And they looked at me and laughed and then I spinned around and took out my gun. I told them, "You either go off or I'll blow you off the stage!" and I made them all jump off the stage. They went, told on me but Herc said, "That's my partner. What did he tell you?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How was Timmy Tim recruited for your crew?"

COKE LA ROCK:"That was Herc. Herc recruited everybody. The only guy that I ever recruited but not recruited but let play on our system was DJ Baron. Herc picked up Timmy Tim and after Timmy Tim he picked up Clark Kent. Herc did that. Like I said I was an older guy, I wasn't close to the young guys playing music, I was close to the young guys getting money in the street."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Almost all Top B-Boys from Kool Herc's era that I have spoken to mentioned that they were given their name by you. Like Trixie, Wallace Dee, Dancing Doug...How did that come about?"

COKE LA ROCK:"I'mma tell you the truth it has to be the cannabis. (chuckles) Cause my talk...I call it pizzazz....I put a little pizzazz on it and like I said I was the so called Echo Chamber so in between that just on a given night...whatever state of mind I'm in and I see them dancing and once that name clicked...I don't know. A Bronx thing is people give you your name, you don't just create your own nickname. That's why I say by me creating Coke La Rock...very few guys can hold their own name. Guys would always give you a name. Very few cats can give themselves a name and hold that name up. So again with calling Trixie and different other cats it just became natural to me after a while....I just put a little pizzazz on it, next thing you know everybody is calling you that and you take the name!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see but it is fair to assert that you had to stand out as a B-Boy in order to qualify to be named by Coke La Rock? I mean wasn't that some type of accolade?"

COKE LA ROCK:"Yes, very true 'cause anything other than that I used to call them Scottie Malloyd."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Alright!" (laughs)

COKE LA ROCK:"See that? I said, "As long as the joint is jam packed, back to back; Standing-Room Only, wall to wall; Scottie Malloyd!" Them were guys that would only look, they would come to the party and just look. And I love everybody that I named."


SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also name the Ni**er Twins?"


COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, because what happened with them was...Chip and all of them after the party at one time... a lot of guys used to go to that restaurant on 161st street....after the party, 5 in the morning...So every time me and Herc come into the restaurant...the Twins always used to say all my little rhymes like, "Rock and you don't stop!  You are listening to the sounds of Coke La Rock Rock Rock!" So I said to Herc.....and at that time we still used to say "Ni**er".."Ni**er" was popular....I said, "Herc, who are those two ni**ers?" And he was like, "Those are the twins!" So at the party to which they came  I was like, "You got Chip, you got Eldorado Mike Mike and you got the Ni**er Twins! And that stuck with them."


SIR NORIN RAD:"Eldorado Mike Mike!!! Did you name him as well?"


COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, his name was Mike but I put the Eldorado on it because at that time me and Herc had the red convertible Cadillac Eldorado and me and Mike....Mike was a darkskin brother like me so me and him both darkskin.....and Mike loved to wear red mocknecks from A.J. Lester...so one day I had the Eldorado and I picked him up. I had my mockneck on, he had his mockneck on. So after that I called him Eldorado Mike Mike rolling with me! That's where his name came from. Mike was a hustler ( a hustle dancer) besides a hustler in the streets.  Two types of hustlers. He would hustle like Chip! It was amazing!!! When you hustle with two women at the same time....Hah!!!! That's nice!! Only few cats could do that." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Now at the end of this interview I do have a rather controversial question if you don't mind. Where and when did the term "B-Boy" originate? I am asking this question because both Trixie and Sasa stated that they didn't call themselves B-Boys even though they are both of course fathers of this dance.."

COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah!"

SIR NORIN RAD: "and that Herc came up with that term later on."

COKE LA ROCK:"It came about later on. Me myself I think they started calling it B-Boy after we had gotten to the Executive Playhouse and the Hevalo to a degree."