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| DJ / MC Coke La Rock |
conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)
SIR NORIN RAD:"Where in the Bronx did you live at when you started doing parties with Kool DJ Herc?"
COKE LA ROCK:"I lived on the Westside of the Bronx.... mainly coming off 174th and then you got a place called Featherbed Lane 'cause I came out of a block called Jesup Avenue....and that's in the Bronx....the West Bronx."
SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you get involved with Kool DJ Herc's parties in that recreation room on 1520 Sedgwick Avenue?"
COKE LA ROCK:"That came about because we became friends more closer before he even started giving the parties because Herc used to always travel over to the Eastside of the Bronx and I came from the Westside so...at that particular time, you know, it was a lot of parties. You might have seven parties on the weekend. We got a little closer, you know, through basketball and stuff like that and then when he was giving a party for his sister.. which was what it was..then he said he was giving a party. So as far as back then..this is the early 70ies like..you knew when somebody was having a party and he was like, "Coke, come to the party!" Which we knew the neighbourhood...most of the people in the neighbourhood came 'cause there are a lot of people today saying they was at Kool Herc's party but they wasn't there!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Which role played your MCing for the parties of Kool DJ Herc?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Okay, first it kinda came out of me just calling out my friends' names 'cause we was real young guys. We was 16, 17 and when my friends be inside the party I used to call their names out to tell 'em,"Go! Move your car!" We wasn't even old enough to have a car! So when the girls heard like you had to go out there to move your car the girls be like,"Uh, he got a car!" I would give all my friends cars so about seven of us woul d have cars. I mean we were under 17 we ain't got no money, we ain't got no cars but they would act like they would go outside. So it kinda started from just joking amongst friends. You know, making it feel like cheers before it was cheers when they call out your name. Because at that time nobody talked about no mic...you have to be truthful..especially young guys, you know? Cause that was the Disco Era. Our Hip Hop..you know, the music Herc was playing, that I was playing.. was totally new but in my neighbourhood you had a lot of parties, you had a lot of talent shows. So the Bronx had a lot going on besides the fires and it being, you know, what it was."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. How did it evolve then from calling out your friends to more elaborate rhyme patterns?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Back then I didn't have what other guys have..like what I consider now...like you got a DJ and a MC..back then it wasn't a name, it wasn't even popular to be playing music! So when we started doing it...as the parties got bigger I started talking more but I had to distinguish myself from Kool Herc because people thought I was Kool Herc!!! 'Cause I didn't have a name! I didn't take on a name till about the third club. I didn't become Coke La Rock till we went to a club called The Hevalo. So people didn't really realize who I was. Really a lot of this MCing came from me letting you know who I was. Just like I had to start saying, "Let me introduce myself..I am Coke La Rock!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"So when your rhymes started to evolve did you write them down before you performed them or would you make them up at the moment when you were on the mic?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, I DID EVERYTHING FREESTYLE. I didn't write 'em in a book, I didn't prepare, I ain't even practiced!!! I'm not being funny but I was talking straight up! That's why I had to start dressing and looking different 'cause if you are getting money in New York you gotta look the role. The rhymes came out because like I said I'm telling you who I am. I can say it now! (starts rapping) I'm the first G -Money Man! I keep a G or better any type of weather! Cold or hot, rain or not! Coke La Rock was born an orphan, fought like a slave! Fucking and fighting, is all Coke La Rock play! If a freak is unique, then that's the freak you seek! As long as the music is non-stopping, the rocks are dropping, the champagne is flowing, the women be going! Hotel, motel, you don't tell, we don't tell! Now this is 1973!! "
SIR NORIN RAD:"That's nice!"
COKE LA ROCK: "See, I was before my time!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you have a specific record that you would use to deliver your rhymes?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Nah, none of that! Rap records wasn't out then!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"I know..I don't mean Rap records but did you have a specific record to..."
COKE LA ROCK:"Talk over?"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Yeah!"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, yeah! I had certain ones. My favourite record was "T Plays It Cool"
SIR NORIN RAD:"By Marvin Gaye..."
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah!! I used to open up with that! Then I'd go into Cymande..."Bra"...My main man was Eddie Kendricks. You know, I was more the R&B side of Hip Hop! That's what cats don't even realize!!! You know, Donald Byrd!!!! Michael Henderson!!! You know, Teddy Pendergrass!!! And then people don't realize even after the club I was one of the first cats..as a young guy..playing in after hour spots with Big Willies. The guys that come in these spots and gamble with 100000$! And I'm playing in there from four in the morning till three in the afternoon! You understand? That was the Nicky Barnes (notorious gangster from New York City) era. I was with the youngest guys who were part of this organization getting money. The young guys I was with they were getting ten, twenty, thirty thousand a week. These guys are 16 years old. I thought drugs was legal! I didn't come from that kind of family. I wasn't born in the streets but I learnt the streets, you know? You wanna call it what it is. Now even the swag they claim I had....I had it because I played both sides of the fence where I felt I'm a good guy in the street. Growing up in the 70ies you had to fight good, look good, get money or be a pretty boy carrying his weight. That's what got you over..just like on your block, you had to be strong on your block."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Nowadays rappers all over the world use that phrase "Rock on!" when they are performing live on stage, even those who are not fluent in English. Is it true that you are the one who came up with that?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yes! Cause it really went to "Rock and you don't stop!" And then I was the Echo chamber like how the guys used it, "Ni**er, rock rock rock!!!!!!" I used to say, "I go by the name of Coke La Rock Rock Rock Rock!!!! Kool DJ Herc Herc Herc!!!!" I had imitated the machine. The same way the guys did the beat box and this and that, I was the Echo chamber. See I never even took credit for that!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Wait a minute! You mean even before guys used the echo chamber machine for their live performances you were already using that effect?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, I invented the echo chamber! I talked like the echo chamber! They don't know me, man!!! I'mma tell you the truth...I stopped before guys became who they are. I got so much in me. You see, they tried to erase me from history. They say, "I am Hip Hop!" I AM HIP HOP!!!
SIR NORIN RAD: "No doubt! So how did the crowd respond when you were rocking on the turntables and kicking your rhymes at Kool DJ Herc's parties?"
COKE LA ROCK:"The crowd..you know what woke me up to that? Guys like Chip, like Sasa and them...when I was playing real good I could tell because they would always look at me and they would say, "Coke, rock these motherfuckers! Man, rock the spot, La Rock!!!" That's what people used to holler at me. So when they started doing that I was like, "Man, I must be tearing them up!" I know who I am. If I wasn't that guy that they say I am where did T La Rock, RC La Rock, Scott La Rock get their names from? There's about thirty, forty people that put La Rock on their name. That is my pat! I created that name through my mind! That was a vision I had over night. So again you don't take on a cat's name if he's not that cat."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Now you are also credited by many for having introduced the aspect of dressing fly into Hip Hop. How important was it to dress fly with regards to your position as DJ and MC for Kool Herc?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Growin up then I established myself as a good guy but I could be the good, the bad or the ugly and that's survival!! I could be as good as you want me to be and be as bad and get as ugly as you get! And street status!!! This why I say guys wanted to beat me. I'm walking around with 350 $ shoes, I'm walking around with 200 $ pants, 250 $ shirts, I'm walking around with 1200 $ coats. I was buying cars when guys had bikes. You had to dress up! When you are looking at the movies that came out back then...I kinda mastered myself behind "The Mack" (famous Blaxploitation movie from 1973 starring Max Julien as the pimp Goldie). I loved that movie! That was my movie! I used to go see it every year even when they stopped playing it...they would always play it down 42nd street for one week before New Year. That was my movie! I wouldn't try to be a pimp I just liked the style. And then back then in Harlem everybody dressed! You know, that showed you got money! Nobody could say you're getting money and you're looking like a bum!"
COKE LA ROCK:"Okay, shopping at AJ Lester's meant that you was on another status in the streets...of getting money. Cause the cheapest shirt in there was 100 $.. your underwear in there was 50$! Shopping at A. J. Lester's...it was a thing with A.J. Lester...you go there and it's expensive on the first floor but if you are spending over 2000 $ or better you go downstairs and meet Mr. Lester. This where you see real fly clothes and Mr. Lester he would tell you, "If you see somebody with that suit on or that shirt that you bought from me I'll give you your money back." That's what A.J. Lester was about. When you wear a A.J. Lester shirt at a party and there are 1000 people in there you bet that you will not see another person with it on. You never wanna look like the next cat. That's where that style came from! And I mean I changed my clothes every week. You couldn't wear the same thing every week! (laughs) You feel me!?? I had 20 pairs of Pumas that was all flavors! I had seven pairs of lizards! All flavors!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What about your coat game?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Listen....when cats was wearing snorkel coats....just to show you how far it went...even when they wore regular Cortefiels I had a Cortefiel blazer...I had the soft Cortefiel, most cats just had hard Cortefiels....I had the Cortefiel with my name inside my lining. Then when cats was wearing shearlings I had a pony coat. Cats didn't know what a pony coat is, you would think there was a gorilla on my back!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Was it also possible to get custom made gear at A.J. Lester's?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Nah, I mean A.J. Lester's really wasn't the custom made spot. You had a spot called Mr. Tony's and Mr. Orry's. Them was two taylor made spots where you gotta pay 250, 300 $ to get your pants made. That's where you get your pepper silk pants made any way you want it. I used to get pants made with one pocket. I went ballistics with it. A. J. Lester's was the regular spot with all the new stuff from Italy and wherever they was getting their clothes from. But if you wanted it taylor made you went to a spot called Mr. Tony's or Mr. Orry's."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I have heard Kool Herc and others (shout outs to Zulu King Cholly Rock) mentioning a brand called Blye that was popular back then. What was that about?"
COKE LA ROCK:"To me they were Italian Knit shirts. They gave diffent names to them back then like Blyes, Alpacas..."
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, it was always tension. Okay, now that you ask that part which is correct.....but listen to this: When guys had zip guns....guys used to make a gun with rubberband, wood and stuff like that....and they had guns that were falling apart..I call them musket rifles...back then I had a 38, a 45 and a 12 gauge..brand new! I had too much artillery, I could fight a war. I'm not bragging on it. I didn't play with the street....I was a street guy.. I learnt from the street."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I guess carrying weapons was a necessity for you back then because you never knew what might happen at a party?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Listen..I had a saying: It's better for the police to catch me with it than the stick up guys catch me without it. You feel me?"
SIR NORIN RAD:"As for your DJing I have been told that you were also known for regularly playing slow jams back then.Could you please elaborate on that?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah listen, I'm the only guy that ever played slow music at Herc's parties. Every time at 2 o'clock I would play the Delfonics "For The Love That I Gave" and most of the time I would follow with Smokey Robinson "Here I Go Again". Smokey Robinson was my guy, The Whispers, Blue Magic. Every Kool Herc party, I don't care! I played a lot of slow music. This is when B-Boys would start dancing with the women. At our parties you still had to know what a woman is about. This is also what I was listening to at home. When I was home I never listened to fast music. I listened to love music. That was me more. It soothed me."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I think that's what is missing today in Hip Hop."
COKE LA ROCK:"It's missing and you are right it's missing. That's why they're beating up women more than hugging and feeling them. They don't know what that feeling is about."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, what were some of the B-Boy Joints that you introduced to Hip Hop? Sasa told me that he especially enjoyed it when you were rocking on the turntables back then."
COKE LA ROCK:"Man, I played "Shaft In Africa" by Isaac Hayes...that was a B-Boy record! I played Earth, Wind & Fire...they had a record called "Power"....or the TNT Band...my favourite record! "This is the Meditators speaking..." They called it "Meditation". I used to introduce myself with that...it used to go, "This is the Meditators speaking...". Then I played a joint from The Last Poets.."My Pretty Nigger" and it'd say on it "Hevalo....pretty ni**er". I used to cut in my cuts, you know?
SIR NORIN RAD:"Herc is famous for coming up with that Merry Go Round Technique which focusses on what is known today as the breakpart of a record. Like he would take the break of "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose" and match that with the break of "Bongo Rock" for the B-Boys to go off to. Has that part always been called "the break" or did you use a different term?"
COKE LA ROCK:"I didn't classify it as a name other than like you said we called it "The Merry Go Round". To me it was catching beats. What made me learn a little better than guys...when Herc and us played we didn't even have a cueing.. I had to learn by seeing the groove in the record. So without a cueing learning to see the groove, remembering where the groove is, listening to the groove as you're mixing it with the next record made it more perfect when we eventually changed over and got a cueing. After that..you know I could already see it with my eye but once I could hear it, it made everything too sharp! That's when Coke La Rock just took off 'cause now I ain't gotta look, I could hear it..I can put the headphones on. Just like back then when guys had headphones...we were the first guys with the telephone hooked up to the box where we were listening to it through the box, through the headphone..we did that! We had the first 8 milimeter movie, we showed that at one of our parties at the same time. We were one of the first guys starting giving back (to the community)...we gave out 100 records, we used to give free parties, we used to give catered food, we played in everybody's recreation room, we gave back!! We're the ones who started to play in high schools....Roosevelt High School, James Monroe...If you came from the BX and you ain't go to a Kool Herc party, then you ain't at a party growing up in the Bronx!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"And you've just said that you would show a movie at your parties?"
COKE LA ROCK:"8 milimeter movie! Herc's father taped one of the parties at the recreation room (on 1520 Sedgwick Avenue). That's why I say the guys...I have to call them the Lying Kings...most of the guys who say they was there, they wasn't there! The 8 milimeter movie...I don't know if Kool Herc got it put out somewhere but it could be.. you look at that movie you won't see too many guys in there but Coke La Rock is in there!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"May I ask why you and Herc only stayed for relatively brief time at The Twilight Zone before moving on to The Hevalo?"
COKE LA ROCK:"We started at the Twilight Zone. From the Twilight Zone we went down the block. Now what happened with us moving a lot was guys...like I said me and Herc were like 17, we're young but the money being made through the parties was in thousands of dollars even though it was a three dollar party. So a lot of times guys was like, "We gonna fix the club up. We gonna do this, we gonna do that!" And all they did was taking the money and run off with it. After a while..like once we see you do nothing to your club to make it better..we move on..we knew you're just talking and playing us. That's why a lot of times we would switch clubs."
SIR NORIN RAD:"How much of the money you made went into Kool Herc's soundsystem?"
COKE LA ROCK:"That was the whole thing! When I first got with Herc I didn't take a paycheck from Herc for a whole year or two. Like I said I'm getting money through what I do. The main thing was...the first thing you do is build up your equipment, you know? That was Herc's dream, "I wanna get this equipment!" So all the money went towards getting equipment. So once we got the equipment real quick..cause most guys didn't have money, young guys...and once we did that we outsurpassed everybody! Because people didn't really know from some three dollars we're making nine and ten thousand dollars! People didn't know what we made at the party, it can come out now but back then...after about the second year (1975) we were the number one target for the stick up guys. Like, "Yo, we gotta try and get Herc and them!" But I knew too many street people who used to call me. Even though Biggie and them rapped on records about they're coming get you..that's what they used to do to me. Guys would call me all the time, "Coke, some cats in my neighbourhood they are gonna try to get you tonight!" This is why I always kept my gun. I don't wanna put this as no gangster..no glamourizing...but I was like this, "If you wanna take it, you better catch us right!" I ran like that, you know?"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What would have happened back then if somebody had tried to violate ropes at your party?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Nah, nah, they wouldn't cross the ropes. Everybody knew that! I used to tell you,"If you cross the ropes, you might get death!" And then I had a couple of henchmen with me...I had a guy a called Diamond D which is DJ Baron's brother, my man Hassan and a couple of other guys who would stop that from happening, like before you even get close. We had to do this because back in our day cats would just snatch your equipment, they'd stand behind it and before the party is over they might shoot off a bullet to panic everybody and then the guys would snatch your stuff. This is what made us rope our stuff off because you're not taking nothing. You had to see what's coming your way."
SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were also the ones who introduced the ropes as a means to keep cats away from your soundsystem?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yes! The rope gotta come and give you like 10, 15 feet. You gotta get yourself that space because once they're on top of you, like what you're feeling....and then you gotta separate who belong around you. Like I remember one time I had to make guys jump off the stage. Herc had about ten guys up on stage, standing around. Herc called me up on stage to play. So when I came up he left, he went to the front door to watch the door. I said, "Listen, fellas! I don't know y'all and I don't mean no disrespect but you gotta leave!" They looked at me and said, "Fuck you, man! Herc said I could be here." So I said, "I'm Herc's partner. I'm asking you brothers to leave!" And they looked at me and laughed and then I spinned around and took out my gun. I told them, "You either go off or I'll blow you off the stage!" and I made them all jump off the stage. They went, told on me but Herc said, "That's my partner. What did he tell you?"
SIR NORIN RAD:"How was Timmy Tim recruited for your crew?"
COKE LA ROCK:"That was Herc. Herc recruited everybody. The only guy that I ever recruited but not recruited but let play on our system was DJ Baron. Herc picked up Timmy Tim and after Timmy Tim he picked up Clark Kent. Herc did that. Like I said I was an older guy, I wasn't close to the young guys playing music, I was close to the young guys getting money in the street."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Almost all Top B-Boys from Kool Herc's era that I have spoken to mentioned that they were given their name by you. Like Trixie, Wallace Dee, Dancing Doug...How did that come about?"
COKE LA ROCK:"I'mma tell you the truth it has to be the cannabis. (chuckles) Cause my talk...I call it pizzazz....I put a little pizzazz on it and like I said I was the so called Echo Chamber so in between that just on a given night...whatever state of mind I'm in and I see them dancing and once that name clicked...I don't know. A Bronx thing is people give you your name, you don't just create your own nickname. That's why I say by me creating Coke La Rock...very few guys can hold their own name. Guys would always give you a name. Very few cats can give themselves a name and hold that name up. So again with calling Trixie and different other cats it just became natural to me after a while....I just put a little pizzazz on it, next thing you know everybody is calling you that and you take the name!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"I see but it is fair to assert that you had to stand out as a B-Boy in order to qualify to be named by Coke La Rock? I mean wasn't that some type of accolade?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yes, very true 'cause anything other than that I used to call them Scottie Malloyd."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Alright!" (laughs)
COKE LA ROCK:"See that? I said, "As long as the joint is jam packed, back to back; Standing-Room Only, wall to wall; Scottie Malloyd!" Them were guys that would only look, they would come to the party and just look. And I love everybody that I named."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also name the Ni**er Twins?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, because what happened with them was...Chip and all of them after the party at one time... a lot of guys used to go to that restaurant on 161st street....after the party, 5 in the morning...So every time me and Herc come into the restaurant...the Twins always used to say all my little rhymes like, "Rock and you don't stop! You are listening to the sounds of Coke La Rock Rock Rock!" So I said to Herc.....and at that time we still used to say "Ni**er".."Ni**er" was popular....I said, "Herc, who are those two ni**ers?" And he was like, "Those are the twins!" So at the party to which they came I was like, "You got Chip, you got Eldorado Mike Mike and you got the Ni**er Twins! And that stuck with them."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Eldorado Mike Mike!!! Did you name him as well?"
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah, his name was Mike but I put the Eldorado on it because at that time me and Herc had the red convertible Cadillac Eldorado and me and Mike....Mike was a darkskin brother like me so me and him both darkskin.....and Mike loved to wear red mocknecks from A.J. Lester...so one day I had the Eldorado and I picked him up. I had my mockneck on, he had his mockneck on. So after that I called him Eldorado Mike Mike rolling with me! That's where his name came from. Mike was a hustler ( a hustle dancer) besides a hustler in the streets. Two types of hustlers. He would hustle like Chip! It was amazing!!! When you hustle with two women at the same time....Hah!!!! That's nice!! Only few cats could do that."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Now at the end of this interview I do have a rather controversial question if you don't mind. Where and when did the term "B-Boy" originate? I am asking this question because both Trixie and Sasa stated that they didn't call themselves B-Boys even though they are both of course fathers of this dance.."
COKE LA ROCK:"Yeah!"
SIR NORIN RAD: "and that Herc came up with that term later on."
COKE LA ROCK:"It came about later on. Me myself I think they started calling it B-Boy after we had gotten to the Executive Playhouse and the Hevalo to a degree."
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