Interview with B-Boy Voodoomaster Herb
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| Voodoomaster Herb |
conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)
SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly in Harlem did you grow up at?
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, actually it was two parts. There was the Bronx and Harlem 'cause I was in the Bronx first, then I moved to Harlem.
SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were born in the Bronx?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Which part of the Bronx?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I was born in the South Bronx, around Prospect Avenue."
SIR NORIN RAD:"So when did you move to Harlem?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, now this is tricky. At a very young age we moved to Harlem but then we moved back to the Bronx. So we'll go by when I moved back to Harlem and stayed. 1975 is when I moved back to Harlem and stayed there."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Where in Harlem did you live at then?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"145th Street."
SIR NORIN RAD:"That's the Sugar Hill section, correct?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, that is. That's the Sugar Hill section. West Harlem."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of music was being played at your house when you were growing up?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, it was pretty much everything! You know, we had Al Green....Stax, Atlantic.....you know the label that Aretha Franklin was on......Rufus Thomas, of course James Brown. Everybody played James Brown!! You had Black Ivory, Blue Magic, The Delfonics...there were all sorts of R&B bands out back then and it was wonderful. The music was beautiful!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"So you were listening to both the uptempo funky joints and the smooth slow joints?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you witness Breaking for the first time? How old were you then?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"For the first time it's kinda hard to say, you know, because it's been woven in into the urban culture so long! 'Cause I mean if you go back to documentaries where you see Sammy Davis Jr. .......he did it also!!!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"He had that exquisite footwork...."
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!! And he had ground techniques!! So like I said it's been woven in into the urban culture, it just carried all the way over into the Hiphop Culture but my first experience with it.....with me getting down.....was when I first met Mark....Puppetmaster (the legendary B-Boy Puppetmaster from the Shaka Zulus). I mean I knew a little about it but when I saw him it was like the wow factor! This is how good he was!!!(excited)"
SiR NORIN RAD:"Damn!"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, he was like the wow factor!! I was okay, I know I was good but then you have some people that are exceptional and that was my man Mark, the Puppetmaster!!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe that occasion when Puppetmaster showed you his B-Boy Skills for the very first time!"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:" I met him through this guy Doug. Doug wasn't a B-Boy, Doug was a friend of his and a friend of mine. We were walking one day and that was back in the 1970ies when you would carry your boom box with you and we were walking down 145th Street going towards Riverside and we had a tape in the boom box and that's when I first saw Puppetmaster dance. And it was the wow factor! I was like, "Holy shit! This dude is nice!!!" 'cause he did stuff I had never seen before!"
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| B-Boy Puppetmaster (The Shaka Zulus) |
SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall what kind of moves he did?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, you know, you do your basic introduction moves on top. Crossing your legs and everything..... but when you go down on the floor it's the combination that makes your style unique and that's what he had! He had a certain combination. You know, you had a lot of B-Boys when they go down the initial moves are the same and then you always gonna have those special moves that sort of separates you from everybody else. And you know, that's what I didn't have at first. I mean I was good and I had certain moves but when I saw him I was like, "Wow! I gotta get on my game!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the process through which you build up your B-Boy skills."
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, the gift was already there 'cause like I said growing up I always seeen it. You know, there was always one person competing with another and I used to look at it and I'd be like, "Oh man, I could take that guy out!!" You know, and then I would get down there and I would do my thing and that's how my name started surfacing 'cause they would be like, "Yo, this guy Voodooo is nice!" I thought I was really good till I met Mark (Puppetmaster) That's when I said,"Okay, I gotta brush up on my game!" And even there were a lot of moves that he did that I incorporated with mine....I was like, "I gotta get that!!" That's what we called biting back then (laughs). He was that good! I mean there were a lot of guys that were almost as good as him but when it came to competition he pulled a rabbit out of his hat!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you and Puppetmaster became good friends real fast?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh, right on the spot!! Yeah, right on the spot till today! I'm in Virginia now so whenever I go to New York I call him before I get there, "I'm coming up to New York!" We hook up and that's it, you know?"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you remember which year that was when you became acquainted with the Puppetmaster?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh yeah, that was about 1975 or 1976. I know it was before the Blackout of 1977."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you practice at?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You know, back then in the Hiphop Culture the B-Boy connection was.....you were always around it 'cause back then there was always a party going on somewhere. I mean they'd hook their system up to the street light and you'd be out in the park all night. You know, you always knew somebody else. I had cousins that were B-Boys and everything so we'd go to the hallway and practice our moves 'cause it was a natural thing that you already had, you understand? To incorporate something else into your repertoire was always good because it wasn't as rehearsed as stuff is now! It was all natural! Everything now is so rehearsed! You can see that it is rehearsed!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"To me it seems that many so called B-Boys of today actually lack soul...."
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Exactly!! There was one thing I was watching and you know what the gymnastics do on a horse??? This guy's whole ground routine was that!!! I mean it just took so much away from the B-Boy experience 'cause it's like.....this is not B-Boying, this is gymnastics!!! These days they're not in rhythm or anything!!! When you were listening to the music and you were a B-Boy back then your moves were part of that music! Your movement was music, you understand? It was on time, in rhythm and in step. It was undeniable but now all these slips and everything and they're counting moves.......I call it counting moves!! I laugh at it.......I mean Harlem and the Bronx....all these urban areas, they were real rough. So you couldn't get a lot of people to come in and document this visually. This is the only disadvantage we had, if it got to the point where you could have documented us visually you would have been amazed by what you saw!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What were some of the venues in Harlem that you would dance at?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, well we would always go to East Harlem. I mean my crew we were from West Harlem but we didn't stay in one particular area, we were all over East Harlem. For B-Boys you had the Renaissance Ballroom and you had the Audubon Ballroom of course!!!! That was my stage...the Audubon!!! I always killed the competition there at the Audubon and then you had a lot of rec centers that were turned into clubs after hours on the weekends. Mark (Puppetmaster) started taking me over to the Bronx to meet the Zulus. That was my first encounter with them. You also had a lot of stuff going on in the projects. Like I said they'd take their DJ equipment out, hook it up to the lamp post and you'd be out there all night. St. Nicholas Park was one of these spots. And of course between 146th and 147th Street in Manhattan...in between Amsterdam & Broadway...we had a little park over there. I can't remember the school.....163 I believe it was... we had that yard! Puppetmaster used to always appear there. He would go off and I would go off as well but we never competed against each other. So many people wanted to see that but we never competed against each other! Like he had a protege named Anthony and I had a protege named Ace. You know, we sent them to compete with each other...waiting for us to interfere and jump in..then the other one would jump in but it just never happened!! (laughs)"
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| The Audubon Ballroom |
SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like to come to a party at Bronx River Center for the first time?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Bronx River, man! That was an experience! I mean there were so many cats! First I was too intimidated to do anything. You know, I'm not gonna lie! You had Cholly Rock, Beaver.....and there were even some females....Trina (RIP), Taste (RIP), Natalie......there were a lot of females that were nice so I was looking and I tried to feel it out at first, then when it started coming to almost the end I said to myself, "Well, you know no better time than now!" So I went down and did my stuff. What I did was impressive enough to be able to come back and do what I do. It was fun."
SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you go there? Did you take a cab?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"No, we took the train."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did that party take place inside of the Bronx River Center or outside of it?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"My first experience was inside the center 'cause I believe it was winter time. Bambaataa was DJing, it was inside and I 'd be doing that all winter. Then I used to see DJ Mario outside...in the back of the center. Mario used to have that coffin with his turntables in there and everything and this just caught me. He had his system in a coffin. It was weird!"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh, you were anxious to get there. You know, you're real anxious when you hear it, especially when it's a sound that you're familiar with. That would be the sound that you can break to. You would be like, "Oh man!!!!!!!" Then you would start to put a little pep in your step to get there to see who's already on the floor doing what they're doing, you understand? So you could go ahead and do your thing. It was always that anxious feeling once you hear it because you'd hear it from blocks away. I mean these guys had some serious systems!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"How many B-Boy circles would usually form there inside of Bronx River Center?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You'd see at least tree, four circles! You know everybody else would be dancing......doing regular dancing or doing The Hustle but you would see at least three or four B-Boy circles. This is one thing about B-Boys.....not too many B-Boys wanted to start the circle off. They wanted to see what somebody else got before they go and display their skills. So everybody waiting around to see who goes first, you know? And then that's how it started. They would set it off. "
SIR NORIN RAD:"What went through your mind when a truly nice B-Boy jumped into the circle and did his thing?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Okay, this is how it is with B-Boys back then...like I said a lot of things were never rehearsed back then. You did have signature moves but what you did...everything was pretty much off the top of your head. You got down on that floor and the only thing that you would have to remember is what you did that made everybody like stand up on their feet like, "Wooooooow!!!" You know, you just had to remember what it was that you did. Then.....the funny thing about it is...then you would go home and practice it. You would do it first...like something you even surprized yourself doing it...'cause that's how B-Boying was back then.....spontaneous, it wasn't something rehearsed. You'd just get down there, you'd do what you do, then you'd get up and he'd go down there and do his stuff and in that instant you had to think of something better than that. See that's a true B-Boy, you know, where you can make something up right there on the spot!!!! And that's the difference between what they do now and what we used to do back then."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What did B-Boys typically wear back in your era?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You know, back then Levi's wasn't the big jeans! Lee were the big jeans!!!!! (chuckles) Bell bottom Lees, Pro-Keds or you might have your Playboys on or your British Walkers. But see that's the thing about a B-Boy...it doesn't matter what you had on. If you were called out no matter what you had on you would get down on that floor!! If you called out a B-Boy no matter how fly he was, you understand, if you called him out, he was coming out!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What exactly was considered to be fly during your era?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"You had your Cortefiel coat, you had your Overlaps. Sometimes you had some Teardrops.....you had your Playboys or your British Walkers, a Mockneck sweater or maybe a cardigan v-neck sweater with your Kangol on."
SIR NORIN RAD:"How were battles initiated back then? Did they start by one B-Boy jumping into the circle and doing a certain move specifically directed towards another B-Boy?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly!! Like that happened to me one time......actually, that's how I met Fletch. I'm gonna give you that story first! Everybody knew about me B-Boying and then they were like, "Yo, Fletch is up at the Battlegrounds!!!! Blah, blah, blah, you know?"
SIR NORIN RAD:"The Battlegrounds!!!!!"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, that's in Harlem also."
SIR NORIN RAD:"The People's Choice Crew used to rock there...."
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"The People's Choice, Fever Disco...."
SIR NORIN RAD:"And also The G-Force, right?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly!!! (laughs)!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn, so B-Boying went down at the Battlegrounds as well?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah!! It became one of my spots but Fletch was there so I said, "Okay, I'mma go up there and see what this guy's about!" You know what I'm saying, I watched him, I was a little impressed by him but I said, "Let me go down and do my stuff!!!" And I wowed them!!!! Everybody was like, "Uuuuuh!" because they had never seen me before but I had heard of Fletch. Fletch used to be with this other guy called Johnny. Johnny was also good and then he had another partner named Frank. So that's how I met Fletch. We started talking, I brought up Puppetmaster's name and after that we started hanging out."
SIR NORIN RAD:"So did you go often to the Battlegrounds in order to take out other B-Boys?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"It was a regular spot whenever they did their thing but me and Fletch kinda held down that B-Boy arena. You know, there would be guys that came there but we would just embarrass them and they would go about their way. So pretty much the Battlegrounds belonged to me and Fletch, you know as far as the B-Boy thing was concerned. Puppetmaster....I would see him every now and then but he would always be up in the Bronx. So the Battlegrounds, the schoolyard betweeen 146th and 147th Street, the Audubon Ballroom and places like that....pretty much....that were our territories. That was me and Fletch, we held that down."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Please provide more details of that battle against Fletch!"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, I had heard about Fletch before then but I had never met him. I was actually on the corner of 145th Street & Amsterdam Avenue. The Battlegrounds is on Amsterdam Avenue & 152nd Street. Somebody came to me and said, "Yo, Fletch is up there at the Battlgrounds!" I said, "Yeah? Okay, let me go up there!" I went up there and like I said I saw a circle already around him. I'm like, "Yeah, okay! Let me wait for him to do something crazy." I could tell that he was comfortable and that this was his arena because when he finished doing his stuff and he stood up he wasn't expecting nobody to step in that circle and do something and that's when I came in. Everybody's looking like, "Oh, who's this???" And I went down, did my thing. Like I said I impressed them all. All you heard was, "Oh shit!!!!!!" And then, you know, he went down again, I went down again and then they sorta switched the tempo of the music so we had stopped right there. That allowed us to get acquainted with each other and that formed a friendship right then and there!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Fletch was from Featherbed Lane in the Bronx, right?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, you see that's the thing. A lot of people from the Bronx moved to Manhattan. 'Cause Fletch lived up there on 163rd Street.....something like that.....between Amsterdam Avenue & Broadway. See a lot of us moved from the Bronx to Manhattan."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it accurate to say that the Bronx and Harlem were like siblings when it came to Hiphop Culture?"
VOODOOMASTR HERB:"Yeah, exactly, yeah!!! 'Cause you're sharing the same DJs and everything. Like if there's a party over here this week...you know, let's say TJ The DJ (The People's Choice Crew)...they're giving a party this week so we're all over there. Now the next day DJ Mario might be giving a party at JHS 123 so, you know, we're goin over there. Everybody shared...."
SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess you and Fletch became something like a crew after that battle and started going to different parties, is that correct?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, exactly. We would do that. It was me, him and Frank."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your favourite breakbeats back then?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh man, it was always "It's Just Begun" by The Jimmy Castor Bunch! Of course James Brown "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose"....but there were so many more."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What about "Apache"?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Of course!! That was without a doubt! That whole album had at least four banging beats on there....."Apache", "Bongo Rock", "Duelling Bongos", "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida". I still have all these records. "Let's Dance" by Pleasure is another one. "Mambo #5" by Samba Soul.....it was a Salsa record but it had a vicious breakbeat!!!! We would go off to that! Then they had this other one. That was the Zulu's record!!! It was a band from Brazil! I don't remember the name....."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I think you're referring to "Mandamentos Black" by The Gerson King Combo."
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, yeah!!! (excited) Gerson King Combo...that was it!!! Yo, when they played that song you had about twenty circles!!!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"For real???!!?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"(laughs) When that song played you had about twenty damn circles, man!!!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What about "Juju Man" by Passport? Pow Wow told me that him and Cholly Rock once burnt a whole squad of B-Boys to this joint up in The Valley."
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Oh yeah! That too!!! All of these get you on the floor in a heartbeat! Once those songs came on the crowd would just erupt and then the B-Boying would start! You had two Charlie Rocks (one of them is actually spelled Cholly Rock, a legendary Zulu King B-Boy from Uptown, BX), 'cause you had a Charlie Rock from Manhattan also."
SIR NORIN RAD:"B-Boy Charlie Rock from The Rock City Crew."
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, yeah!!!! The Rock City Crew was right around the 145th Street area also, all the way down to 80th something. They had a very strong crew!!! And then you had The Mechanics.......Did Mark (Puppetmaster) tell you about The Mechanics?"
SIR NORIN RAD:"No, please elaborate on them!"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"That was another time I saw the Puppetmaster do his thing. He danced against one of The Mechanics in the Battlegrounds. That was another sight to see!!!! This guy from the Mechanics he did tricks, like he blew fire out of his mouth and all of this stuff. So I was like, "Where does he get these gimmicks from, man?"But he was good and he was double-jointed, so he used to do a lot of things with his body. It was a good battle but he just couldn't mess with the Puppetmaster!!! I'm surprised he didn't tell you about The Mechanics!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Were they from Harlem, too?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Yeah, they were from Harlem, too. From the Battlegrounds area. I think they had about four or five members and my sister she still knows of the guys 'cause he still likes her from way back then but they're just good friends."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Since you mentioned The Rock City Crew what do you recall about the legendary B-Boy Sondance?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"He was an awesome B-Boy!! Let me tell you something.....now this is what made Sondance so good. He was that big but he moved the way he moved!! He burnt a lot of people but you know it's just a fact that he burnt them because they underestimated him. They didn't think anybody that big could move like that!!! Like when you saw John Belushi doing backflips, you wouldn't expect somebody of that size doing backflips. That's what it was with Sondance. You know, you didn't have any answer to it! They were like, "Oh, this dude is nice!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you pick the name Voodoomaster?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Because when I started breaking.....you know, like I told you about the guy from The Mechanics who used to blow fire out his mouth.....I used to do a lot of these transformation moves like I was transforming into something else on the floor and I guess that's where the name Voodoomaster came from."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you do certain routines?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"Well, like I said I would transform into something that crawls on the floor, then I'd spin around or jump up in the air. Then I had that thing called The Dead Man's Drop. Now that was hard! You know, cause it took me...like I actually had to practice that move 'cause I was on the floor doing my moves, then I started spinning real fast and then I pushed myself up in the air and I would spin in the air and you know you had to land right or you would hurt yourself because you could land on your side but I put my foot under my leg and that would cushion my fall. I used to call that The Dead Man's Drop because it looked like you spun in the air and you just came down on deadweight. Then I jumped back up and started spinning and do the helicopter. Then I had and I actually got this move down pat to at least three spins while I was able to spin without no hands at all and that was one of my moves. That was one of the moves I used when I first met Fletch and that's why everybody was like, "Oh, shit!!!" because not too many people could do their spinning with no hands at all. You had to spin fast enough to pick up the momentum to raise your hands and to spin three more times before you stopped."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What did B-Boying mean to you back then?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I LOVED B-BOYING!!!! That was my passion! And that's the thing we didn't do it for money or nothing, we did it because we enjoyed it! I'd go everywhere where there was B-Boying going on! Once Mark (Puppetmaster) took me to the Bronx I was always back in the Bronx. Plus where I used to live in the Bronx I'd go around there and they'd have something going on Marmion Avenue, Boston Road.......places like that."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the three best B-Boys that you ever witnessed going off?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"It would be Puppetmaster #1, Puppetmaster #2 (Rodney B, cousin of Puppetmaster #1 and also a Shaka Zulu B-Boy)......I have seen a lot of B-Boys but they were mostly guys that I could deal with but I'm talking about B-Boys that I could only hang with for a little while before they would go ahead and do something that would get me out of the circle. So it would be Puppetmaster #1, Puppetmaster #2 and I guess Beaver (The Little Zulu Kings). That's about it."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shoutouts at the end of this interview?"
VOODOOMASTER HERB:"I wanna give a shoutout to all the B-Boys and B-Girls from back in the days and a big shoutout to you for connecting with me!"
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