Interview with B-Boy Lil Boy Keith (The Little Zulu Kings)

Lil Boy Keith (The Little  Zulu Kings)

                             conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)


NORIN RAD:"Where did you live at when you got in contact with Breaking?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"I lived on 170th street in the Bronx...between Fulton and Franklin Avenue...right across the street from Crotona Park."

NORIN RAD:"Okay, and where did you witness Breaking for the first time?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"I saw it at a show in a school. There were these two guys named Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde...they were dancing.....it was a B-Boy Battle and they won that battle against some other crew."

NORIN RAD:"Do you recall at which particular school that battle took place?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"63 schoolyard."   

NORIN RAD:"How old were you when you started Breaking?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"I started Breaking at the age of nine."

NORIN RAD:"So you were intrigued by what you saw Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde doing at that battle and that's how you got involved in it?" 

LIL BOY KEITH:"Yeah, I saw what they did and I liked it so I got into it and I just kept on practicing and I started being good at it and then I just went out there one day when they were having a battle and I went out there and started breakdancing and next thing you know everybody liked the way I danced! You know I met Pow Wow and MC G.L.O.B.E. (both were first B-Boys and then became legendary MCees as part of the Soul Sonic Force) and Pow Wow was the number one B-Boy at that time and he used to show me some moves and me and him used to practice together. The Zulu Spin was the most important move that he taught me."
 

NORIN RAD:"Where would you and Pow Wow practice at?" 

LIL BOY KEITH:"We used to practice at his house and we also used to practice in a hallway.....in a big hallway around my block. It was a building called 595...that's where G.L.O.B.E. used to live at...we used to breakdance in his hallway."

NORIN RAD:"Around which year was that?"

B-Boy / MC G.L.O.B.E. ( The Soul Sonic Force / The Zulu Nation)

LIL BOY KEITH:"That was in the 70ies......around '78."

NORIN RAD:"How did you come up with that incredible spinning move of yours which can be seen in that Tools Of War Crotona Park Jam video on youtube?" 

LIL BOY KEITH:"That's something that I created! It's called "The Spinning Top". Nobody could do it the way that I do it. I do it faster than anybody. They couldn't even catch it on film!"

NORIN RAD:"I see and do you recall how you developed that move?"     

LIL BOY KEITH :"Well, I danced real fast, right? And......all of a sudden the spinning just came out of nowhere!!! So I liked what I was doing so I kept on doing it and as time went on I got real good at it. When I first started doing it I always started getting dizzy because I had no real control of it. So I used to practice breakdancing on small places...like on a desk or on a table....anything small that's the way I used to breakdance because I used to wanna dance where I can just move around because the crowd back then at the parties would smother you and you couldn't really dance the way you wanna....so I liked to know how to dance in small spots so if the crowd smothers me I still could do what I needed to do. So I also practised in small corners so I could breakdance and spin without hurting myself and all of that. I had to learn all of that! The first time I did the Spinning Top at a party everybody went crazy! Everybody went, "Yo, how did you that? How fast you be going!?!"

NORIN RAD:"How does the Zulu Spin differ from the Spinning Top?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"The Zulu Spin is a shuffle and a spin, the Spinning Top is just a spin. The way I do my Spinning Top is way different from the Zulu Spin! It lasts a long time! With the Zulu Spin...you gotta use your hands..you gotta move your knees one way and your legs the other way and then you gotta spin! And then you gotta move your knees another way and your legs another way and then you spin...so there's a difference."

NORIN RAD:"Alright, now what were some of the venues that you used to dance at back then? One of them I guess must have been Bronx River Center?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Yeah, well I went to Bronx River Center  and they had a B-Boy talent show and it was the two best B-Boys from over there named Beaver and Keith......and it was me and K.K. Rockwell ..Pow Wow had brought us there..that was the time that Pow Wow took us to Bronx River.... I think DJ Jazzy Jay was playing the beats ...so we battled Beaver and Keith and we took them out and so we became the number one Zulus! It took place in Bronx River Center on the stage......they had a stage up there....in the back of Bronx River Center. That was my toughest battle....that battle against Beaver... that was my toughest battle.... I mean everybody else I just took out like it was nothing."
 
NORIN RAD:"So you're saying you took out the legendary Beaver?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Yeah, I took out Beaver and K.K. took out Keith. That's how we became number one."
 
NORIN  RAD:"Was that K.K. Rockwell from the Funky Four MCees?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"  Yeah, it was me and K.K. Rockwell from the Funky Four..he was a B-Boy, too...I taught him how to breakdance as a matter of fact I taught all of them how to breakdance...the only one that didn't wanna breakdance was Sha Rock. And Breakout used to breakdance, too!!!! DJ Breakout....let me tell you he was nice!!!!!!" 

B-Boy / MC K.K. Rockwell

NORIN RAD:"Let's go back to that battle against Beaver and Keith for a minute....How did that go down? What kind of moves did you pull out against them? What did they use against you?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Well, I did....I had learnt the Zulu Spin from Pow Wow...Pow Wow had taught me how to do the Zulu Spin and so I did the Zulu Spin and then I went into the Spinning Top which was the move that I had made up. Then K. K. Rockwell started flipping all over the place and that's how we won.We wasn't focussed on what they was doing..we was focussed on what we was doing. There was a lot of weight on our shoulders. You know we was in their territory! We had to show them what we were made of. Everybody in Bronx River knew who they was but nobody knew who we was. We danced to "Apache" and also to "Let's Dance" (by Pleasure) which was my favourite beat back then!!! It was like a big surprise to everybody when we took them out. Everybody went crazy! Everybody started following us. Everybody started telling us, "Y'all number one! You took out Beaver! You took out Keith! You're the number one Zulus!" Everybody in Bronx River welcomed us and all of that.."

"Let's Dance" by Pleasure (Album "Accept No Substitutes"; Fantasy Records 1976)

NORIN RAD:"Were there any kind of hard feelings between you and Beaver after that battle?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Nah, nah, nah! No, there wasn't no fights or nothing like that! That's what battling was all about. Battling was...you take out the best one and so you're the winner. Maybe the next time that guy wanna battle you again to see if he can win or maybe he feels he just wants to leave it alone and that's what Beaver and Keith did...they just left it alone."    

NORIN RAD:"Did you become a part of the Little Zulu Kings (Beaver's crew) or did you instantly join the ranks of the Zulu Kings."

LIL BOY KEITH:"No, I was part of the Little Zulu Kings first and then I became a big Zulu King because you gotta start off somewhere to get somewhere."

NORIN RAD:"What were some of the other venues that you used to go in order to go against other B-Boys?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"I used to go to Grandmaster Flash parties, take other B-Boys out... the Black Door....I used to go to Grandwizard Theodore...the L-Brothers and them...taking people out....anyhwere there was a party I was there."   

NORIN RAD:"How important was it in your era to have the right kind of feeling for the beats and to match them with your moves while you were going off?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"See what we used to do back in the days......you had to learn how to dance off any beat!!! We ain't care if it was a slower record or whatever...we had to learn how to dance to any kind of rhythm and you had to be on beat all the time!"   


NORIN RAD:"Would you also do other type of dances at the parties back then?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Breakdancing was the main dance back then. Then they came on with The Hustle and The Freak and all that other stuff. See I also liked to dance the Freak because you can dance with a young girl....you can dance with her close......but breakdancing was the main thing. That's what everybody was focussing on."
    
NORIN RAD:"Did you teach any other people how to breakdance besides MC G.L.OB.E., KK Rockwell, Lil' Rodney Cee and them?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"I taught my own little crew that I had with me."

NORIN RAD:"Who were the members of that little crew of yours?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"It was Eddie, it was Champion...it was just a whole bunch of my little friends that grew up with me...we all lived on the same block and everything.. and I used to just take them to keep'em out of trouble like they're standing around...doing nothing...I used to tell them, "Come with me!" and then I would take them to the hallway and I would show them a couple of moves that I was doing and I'd get their opinion....like,"How did that look?" and they'd be like, "Yo, that's nice! Show me how to do that!" And so I showed them and so we practiced like that. It was about five or six of us."

NORIN RAD:"Did that crew also have its own name?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"No, it didn't have no name at the time or nothing. We just hung out together. They named me Lil Boy Keith 'cause I was the littlest guy out of the whole crew. So that's how I got my name."

NORIN RAD:"So who were the other members besides you, Eddie and Champion?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Royal Dee..we used to call him Royal Dee...and Ikey....Wherever I used to go I used to take them with me."

NORIN RAD:"How did you feel in the late 1970ies when all of a sudden Breaking started to fade out among many Black B-Boys and the MCees took over? Did you keep on breakdancing?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"I stayed breakdancing all my life cause that's where it was at! That's where the fun was at! That's what I knew....that's what I had learnt. So I always stuck with that. Other dances came out like The Freak...stuff like that but Breakdancing really never went nowhere. If you went to those places where they would start to do all these other dances you probably thought breakdancing had gone somewhere but I always went to places where people was breakdancing. I went to a lot of block parties, talent shows...stuff like that...there were still a lot of DJs that were DJing outside....like Theodore or Flash.. so we always had something to do and some place to go to....I mean we would also break at house parties. Dancing was always our thing, it kept us out of trouble."


NORIN RAD:"So you were like one of those die-hard B-Boys that said, "No, I'm not giving this up!" and whenever you had the chance to display your skills you would still go off at parties?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Yeah, that was the thing back then. You had to let people know who you were, what you're made of and, you know, you had a name, you had a rep..so you had to represent...back then we didn't have videos and all that other stuff so it was a word of mouth thing...like "Yo, this guy is nice!!! Lil Boy Keith took out so and so!" and if you weren't there you would hear about it from the other people at school or on your block.....your name would go far! And when the next party came up everybody that heard about you they're coming to that party and they're hoping that you'll be there so they can see you in action."

NORIN RAD:"Did it also happen that B-Boys from other parts of the BX who had heard about your reputation would travel to where you were at in order to test your skills?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Yeah, yeah!!!! (very excited) That's how it was!!! If they know that you're nice and they know that you're taking out everybody then they'd be saying, "Yo, I never heard of this guy!!!! I don't know who is this Lil Boy Keith and who is he to think that he is all that? Oh, we are the best on our block and we gonna travel and show him what we're made of! We gonna take him out!!!" Yeah, it was like that all the time and it lead to a lot of jealousy, too because if you would go to another block and you would take out all the B-Boys from over there, they wouldn't like that and they would wanna fight you! They would start trouble with you because they had been the number one on their block for a long time and now you come out of nowhere and take'em out....they don't like that!"

NORIN RAD:"They don't want to be embarassed in front of their people."

LIL BOY KEITH:"Right, 'cause usually they are also the ones that be talking a whole bunch  of junk. See I never was that kind of guy that talked junk about what I could do to somebody, I would just go over there and do it. It was fun!!! It was fun."

NORIN RAD:"Did you ever run into any of those many Puerto Rican B-Boy crews back then in the  late 70ies?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"The TDK Crew!!! It was a whole lot of Puerto Rican crews back then. The TDK Crew was from around our block and they had a mean, mean crew!!!"

NORIN RAD:"I think I heard that TDK stood for The Disco Kids."

LIL BOY KEITH:"Yeah, most of them were B-Boys, though!"

NORIN RAD:"I know, I was just referring to what TDK stands for."

LIL BOY KEITH:"Right."

NORIN RAD:"So did you ever battle any B-Boy from TDK?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"Of course! That's what it was all about.We all battled against each other. When I won against one of their crew or whatever.....we all bonded. We were bonding together, you know? It wasn't no hate....no, "I don't wanna talk to him!"....there was none of that. We all was like as one!! And sometimes they'd come to me and wanted to learn a move from me or I might see them do a move that I like and I would ask them, "How you do that move?" and so then I would take their move or they would take one of mine and they would it make into what they wanted it to be. Everybody used to swap moves, you know? But we wasn't doing the same moves that we learnt...we took those moves and switched them into something different."

NORIN RAD:"Because you wanted to have your own style..."

LIL BOY KEITH:"Own style, right!" 

NORIN RAD:"When did you notice the TDK crew for the first time?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"That was like the 70ies...the late 70ies going into the 80ies. We stayed in touch with each other all the time because the TDK crew always had parties......they always had parties and they always had those fly females...they always had things going on with them. They had a lot of parties on school days when we were supposed to be in school...they would tell us, "Yo, come over to our house we are throwing a party there!"....cause, see, back in the days we had a whole lot of abandoned buildings so everybody used to make an abandoned building their little party place. We used to take electricity from the street lights and stuff....plug it up..and we had DJs playing music. So we hung out in these abandoned apartments...dancing and having a good time. The TDK crew were the kings of partying and they were expanding like the Zulu Nation. They were expanding a lot!"    
 

NORIN RAD:"What was it like to come to a Bronx River Center party back then?"

LIL BOY KEITH:"It was like amazing to go over the bridge (East 174th street bridge) to Bronx River because Bronx River is a project. So everybody in the project knows Afrika Bambaataa and everybody in the project knows the Zulu Nation. So it was always a honour and a priviledge to go there and to see people uniting with each other. You had different B-Boys goin off over there....later you also had people doing the Electric Boogie. It was so amazing to hear the music three four blocks before you even got there....all this good music!!! (excited) To me it was like a dream come true just to go to Bronx River....just to be part of the Zulu Nation and what they stand for."