Interview with the Original B-Boy Wallace Dee
                                                      

Wallace Dee

conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Bronx are you originally and where did you live at when you started to attend Kool DJ Herc's parties?"

WALLACE DEE:"When I was going to Kool Herc's parties I was living in Bronx River. 1609 Bronx River..that's the building that I was coming from. Right before that...okay... I was like in walking distance to Kool Herc's block parties. I was on Morris Avenue.. between 169th and 170th street in the Bronx right by Taft High School. That's where I was walking from...from that area to Kool Herc's parties....Kool Herc's parties on Sedgwick Avenue and most of them were in the park over there. He would set his equipment up over there and he would always let me know in advance when he was going to having these block parties. I wouldn't get there until like maybe the middle of the block party and then would call out my name through these big speakers like, "Wallace Dee is here!!!" Then everybody would come from everywhere and start surrounding me and they would wait for me to start to dance....they would wait until someone would come up and challenge me. One time Trixie came up and challenged me...you know the first thing I did while he had his back turned? I jumped over his head (laughs) and landed on the ground and started dancing. He told me that last Sunday!!! He was like, "Yo, I'll never forget that, Dee!" Everybody just went crazy!!! They wasn't used to that. They were like, "Ohhh!!!!!!" That's how I was dancing and my best record was "Listen To Me " by Baby Huey. I remember it like it was yesterday!!! Coke La Rock would be on the turntables and what he would do is he would work his way to Baby Huey. He would play like James Brown first and then from James Brown he would go to "Listen To Me"....That's my favourite record!  That's where I used to go offfffffffffffff!!!!!!! (excited)."

NORIN RAD:"How would you know about Kool Herc's parties?"

WALLACE DEE:"Okay, I was talking to his sister...Kool Herc's sister....I got a picture of her. There is a place.. a center called Roberto Clemente State Park and I used to go there all the time to play basketball and all of them used to come there. So after we finished playing everybody would basically gather round and start talking and we would ask her, "When is Kool Herc giving his next party and where it is going to be at?" So she would tell us, "Listen, my brother is gonna be at this park.." or , "He is going to be at The Hevalo!" All these different places where used to be at...DJing...when he first started. So I would be like, "Okay, I'm gonna be there!" Cause you know everybody knew about Kool Herc but I was there when he first started!!"

Cindy (Kool Herc's sister)

NORIN RAD:"So you were there at his very first parties back in 1973?"

WALLACE DEE:" Yes!!! I am part of the first generation that started this! The hiphop dancing...moving to the beat. That's how it all basically came about. IT STARTED IN THE BRONX! Everybody knows me as  "Wallace Dee from the Bronx". They put the "Dee" in there cause I was the dancer. "

NORIN RAD:"Oh, so that's where that came from?!? Who exactly added that "Dee" to your name?"

WALLACE DEE:"Coke!!! Coke La Rock gave me "Wallace Dee"! Wallace The Dancer!!!! (excited) That's where that "Dee" in my name came from. He gave Trixie his name, too!"

NORIN RAD:"Yes, Trixie told me he was given that name by Coke La Rock because he used to do a lot of tricks when was dancing. So you were there also at Kool Herc's parties which took place in that recreation room on 1520 Sedgwick Avenue, right?"

WALLACE DEE:"Of course!  I was there when he first started going to that recreation room..when he first started playing music in there....when he just had the small speakers (laughs). I used to be there! See all of us were friends at first. Down at Roberto Clemente State Park because Herc and his mother and sister they lived right across the street. 1520 he was living in that building."

NORIN RAD:"Did you also dance at those various indoor spots where Herc and Coke used to DJ at?"

WALLACE DEE:"Of course...the Twilight Zone, The Hevalo and the Executive Playhouse... those were the main spots when they were playing inside."

NORIN RAD:"So what would your dancing look like back then?"

WALLACE DEE:"Okay, when I used to come on and the music started I used to do the waving of the hands back and forth first, right?  And then as the beat went on I started moving my feet opposite of my hands...in sync...the finesse of the hands and the feet... the beat...it all went together. My hands went to the left and the right and my feet went to the right and the left. That's what made it look so spectacular...I always used to go with the beat and then at times I also used to freeze, you know? I used to freeze on the beat. I always had the shocking impression. What you thought I couldn't do that's what I did. I used make people say, "Oh shit!!! Look at that!!!" That was my impression. I always had the shocking impression because I was practicing to those beats.... "

NORIN RAD:"And matching the beats with your moves was mandatory back then, right?"

WALLACE DEE:"Yes, that's right! You couldn't ignore that....you had to dance to the beat. But the thing was.....when I dropped to the floor.... dancing.......the next time I came to a Kool Herc party everybody was doing that style of dance! (laughs) So I said to myself," I gotta come up with something different the next time I go." Cause everybody was doing my style. So I gotta let it go off for a little while and think about something different. That's why they were waiting for me to come to all Kool Herc parties cause I always came up with something different that they would take from me......copying it....you know what I mean?!It was like, "Oh shit, you are dancing just like Wallace Dee now!"

NORIN RAD:"So you're saying that you were basically passing out blueprints for other cats? They would bite your styles."

WALLACE DEE:"There you go! There you go! And I didn't mind that  cause then you got a whole group of people in the Bronx who were basically doing the same thing and who would try to put their own style to it. And they got that style from me! So I said, "Okay, that's alright with me. I don't mind that at all. If they love it, I love it even better."

NORIN RAD:"What kind of music did Herc play besides breakbeats?"

WALLACE DEE:"Herc used to play slow music, too. You know that back in the days type of slow music? Like "It's A Thin Line Between Love And Hate"...stuff like that."

NORIN RAD:"By the Persuaders."

WALLACE DEE:"There you go..He would play those musics, too! So people could get together...slow down and slow dance....doing the 500 and all that stuff. That's how you got romantically involved with each other. That's what I liked about Kool Herc and Coke La Rock. They wouldn't play just one set of music, you know? They would play all the other music, too. Slow music...they would play four, five songs of that then they would come back slowly but surely."

NORIN RAD:"The Hustle Dance was also done at Kool Herc's parties, right?"

WALLACE DEE:"Oh my god! Listen! I used to hustle with two or three women at the same time! That would basically be the house music. When he got to the era..now he hadn't gotten to it early...he played house music. And that's when a lot people used to hustle."

NORIN RAD:"Songs like "Do What You Gotta Do" by Eddie Drennon tht came out in 1975, right?"

WALLACE DEE:"Yeah, what you know about this??? (laughs)And it is good to mix it up like that. This way you don't have just one style of dancing. You got all different kind of styles! You got the hiphop beats, you got the slow music, hustle music...you got different music, different styles, man!"

NORIN RAD:"So all these different styles of music were like part of the recipe Herc used to rock a party?"

WALLACE DEE:"There you go! Some people wanted to chill out. Herc got everybody involved. When he played that Hustle music everybody was on the floor... hustling...even the girls that weren't dancing earlier! That's what he used to do. He put all that music together. Like when I got there he had that breakdancing going on...you know he got everybody jumping. Then he moved to the hustle music and got everybody who was sitting on the floor dancing with each other. You should have seen it, man! All these girls doing the Hustle!!! And then...he moved to the romantic part ....the slow music. Getting up close with the girl that you liked...He also played that for the couples who came there. He was playing music for everybody. I like that, I really do." 

NORIN RAD:"Now I have heard that you were known back then for always dressing up real fly? What was it that you used to wear?"

WALLACE DEE:"Okay, I'mma give it to you from head to toe. I used to have on the Cortefiel coat, right? That I got from AJ Lester's....I had a beige one, I had a grey one and I had a navy blue one that went down to the middle of your legs. Then I also had a Peacoat! The velours hat or a Kangol...maybe a short mockneck, the Playboys...you had to have Playboys on....of course you had to have the taylor made pants as well. I had the taylor made pants with the flap on the back.  I used to match it with different colours. The hat, the shirt, the Playboys that I wore I used to match it up. See if I had on a grey mockneck or knit shirt I would match with navy blue or grey taylor made pants and the grey Cortefiel socks that had just come out. I used to dress, man! I used to dress to impress! When you're stepping into a party with them clothes on you'll be noticed and you gonna get a lot of girls' numbers, too! (chuckles)"

NORIN RAD:"What was it like to go shopping at AJ Lesters in Harlem back then?"

WALLACE DEE:"Okay, basically I either jumped out of a cab or my car and I would go inside. Everybody would greet me as Wallace. "Yo , Wallace we got something new, man! Yo, come downstairs! I gotta show you this!" They would show me all the latest styles! And whatever nice styles were out during that time I used to buy it. Yes I would. Me and my brother..my brother Boscoe. We used to be together all the time."

NORIN RAD:"Oh, he used to accompany you to Herc's parties and dance there as well, right?"

WALLACE DEE:"All the time! It was me, my brother Boscoe and that guy named Tex. We all had the same Cortefiel Coats on and anything (laughs) We used to love that! You would walk in there (AJ Lesters) with your Cortefiel and your velours hat on and everybody would know you. "Yo, what's up Wallace Dee?? What's up Boscoe?? What's up Tex!" They knew us! We never had our heads up in the sky or anything like that we would talk to everybody. Whenever they wanted to see a certain step,  we would show them. "Yo, show me that step you was doing at that Herc party!" No problem...I'd get out of  my coat and get busy! That's how it was!"

NORIN RAD:"So the cats at AJ Lesters already knew you?"

WALLACE DEE:"Yes, they would always treat me like that cause I was going there so much...I used to go there at least two or three times a week. I would see what they'd have.....maybe at the second or third day I'd buy a stack of clothes that would hold me over for the whole month or whatever, you know? But I would definetely be there......They'd be like, "Yo Wallace Dee let me show you something! I take you down there!!!" You know, things like that! And you feel good when they greet you like that...let you know they been around... and these are the same guys that'd be going to Kool Herc parties....working at AJ Lesters."

NORIN RAD:"Those cats that worked at AJ Lesters came to Kool Herc's parties?"

WALLACE DEE:"Yeah..of course!!! Yes they would be there! That's how a lot of them knew knew me..from being at Kool Herc's parties."

NORIN RAD:"Let's talk about your brother Boscoe for a minute. Was he older than you?"

WALLACE DEE:"He is two years older than me."

NORIN RAD:"And your other partner was called Tex, right?"

WALLACE DEE:"Yes, he was my age."

NORIN RAD:"I see and both of them would also dance, right?"

WALLACE DEE:"Yes! Both of them were dancers. Listen, a lot of times me and my brother used to come there (to Herc's parties ) and dance together! Me and Boscoe...Tex wouldn't dance as much as we did but he would be there. But me and Boscoe...we would be dancing, taking out cats over there...that's what they knew us as.... "Yo Wallace Dee and Boscoe is here!!! Yo!!!!!"(laughs) We are part of that true hall of fame! Trust me! We also had team routines prepared for whoever might be there. Listen, we used to practice from the night before til two or three in the morning....you know, the next day!! We made up routines for that particular Kool Herc party that would come up next. All the time..we used to be up late at night when nobody else was around. -Throw on some music and get busy in the street....that's how we practiced. "

NORIN RAD:"What about Tex, though?"

WALLACE DEE:"Tex would also dance from time to time but he wasn't as loose as me and my brother. He was more of the type of guy that would look around for girls and stuff like that, you know? (laughs) Most definetely he was..He would rap to the girls, slow dance with them. That was his thing, that was his style. Me and Boscoe we had like permanent women at that time also..."

NORIN RAD:"How would you describe your brother's style of dancing? Was it similar to yours?"

WALLACE DEE:"Yeah, very similar! I had a little bit more of a finesse style...but he had his own style, no doubt! A lot of times he would say, "Let's do it like this (referring to a particular  team routine)." And then I would say, "Nah, let's do it like that tonight and we'll do that other style tomorrow!" (laughs) Stuff like that! We wouldn't argue...just choosing which style to use. A lot of times I'd be just standing around, waiting for my record to come on...then Coke La Rock would let me know, "Yo, I'm getting ready to play this song!"

 Coke La Rock (The Herculords)

NORIN RAD:"At the beginning of this interview you said that you would live in 1609 Bronx River after you had moved there from Morris Avenue therefore I would like to ask you whether you were also familiar with DJ Mario from Bronxdale during that era?"

WALLACE DEE:" MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARIOOOOOOOO! (very excited) You know who used to DJ with him, help him with his records and all that?"

NORIN RAD:"Who?"

WALLACE DEE:"My brother Boscoe! He used to help him to dig out a lot of good records and stuff like that. Mario used to play in a lot of those project parks in the Soundview area. Boscoe didn't live too far from there. At that time he lived on Story Avenue...near Soundview where him and Mario got together."

NORIN RAD:"So would you also go off at Mario's parties,too  or would you strictly stick to Kool Herc's parties?"

 WALLACE DEE:"No, I would dance over there at Mario's parties, too. It wasn't no difference. I wouldn't dance as much over there but I was dancing at Mario's parties."

NORIN RAD:"So is it possible that you may have influenced the people over there in terms of picking up breaking? I'm asking this because I have heard that some of the original Zulu King B-Boys also live in 1609."

WALLACE DEE:"Yes, I started that whole development! After I started dancing in that area...cause you gotta remember....Bambaataa's Zulu Nation was from Bronx River. My mother lived in 1609.apartment 7F....cats saw me dancing over there. So they were like, "Is Wallace home? Is Wallace coming downstairs?" Stuff like that....So as you said I developed that whole area...in this style of dancing. Cause I been to Bronx River and Story Avenue, Bronxdale......that's where Mario is from. All of that is walking distance  from each other."

NORIN RAD:"Who was your fiercest opponent back then?"

WALLACE DEE:"Nobody really. I used to beat everybody. You know a lot of them battles..it was contests.We used to win things...trophies, money, prestige, reputation...you know that was what was going on  back then. I never really battled anybody that I lost against."

NORIN RAD:"Okay, but from what have I heard you and Trixie used to battle each other a lot back then at Herc's parties."

WALLACE DEE:"That's true!!! (laughs) We used to battle a lot !! If he would come to the floor with all of his different tricks then I would come to the floor with all the different styles I had. Every time we saw each other...and they played our songs...it was like, "Come on, man! Let's go!!! We used to go at it!!! A lot!!! So I would say that Trixie was my main competitor back then. It was kool, though. I enjoyed it. "

Wallace Dee & Trixie - True B-Boy Legends

                                                 END OF PART ONE

                                  Interview with B-Boy / MC Pow Wow ( The Zulu Kings )






                                           

Pow Wow (The Zulu Kings / The Soul Sonic Force MCees)

                                   conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)


NORIN RAD:"From which part in the Boogie Down Bronx are you originally?"


POW WOW:"Well, I'm from the South Bronx."

NORIN RAD:"Okay, now where exactly in the South Bronx are you from?"

POW WOW:"I lived on Fulton Avenue just across town from Bronx River. It was like the Boston Road, Prospect Avenue, Franklin Avenue area. I was born and raised there but when it came down to hanging out  I just hung out everywhere, man."

NORIN RAD:"Where did you witness Breaking for the very first time?"

POW WOW:"Breaking...it was at a Kool Herc party. I was with a brother named Darryl Deas and another brother called Eldorado Mike...may they both rest in peace! They took me to Kool Herc.  So I went...it was at a place called The Twilight Zone. I went after that I just got addicted, man...I just got addicted. I got addicted to go there regularly and watch the Ni**er Twins, Sasa....ah man.. Dicey....I used to watch these cats just do their thing...Timmy Tim, Clark Kent...I watched them getting it in."

NORIN RAD:"So you would continue to attend Kool Herc's parties?"

POW WOW:"Oh yeah, I was very fortunate, man! Yeah, 'cause at that time I was a younging... I was like twelve, you know what I'm saying? Hiphop started in 1973 I was born in 1961....so I'm hanging with the big boys (laughs)."


NORIN RAD:"What made you pick up Breaking and how did you develop your skill set?"

POW WOW:"How I  got into Breaking was through Darryl and Eldorado Mike. They wasn't B-Boys like that in a sense but they knew how to do it and I used to watch them.  Darryl never hit the floor. Mike was playing around at the parties. He was a great Hustler..he used to breakdance a little bit too I just started doing it. Then I moved down from Fulton Avenue to Franklin Avenue that's where I met my man Marcus (Marcus Rockwell - another original Zulu King B-Boy) .We went to the same school together and he told me he was a B-Boy and at that time he was down with DJ Smokey and the Smoke-A-Trons and me and him we just clicked and we practiced and practiced until we got it and the rest is history, brother. Believe me, history!!"

NORIN RAD:"You are talking about Marcus Rockwell, right?"

POW WOW:"Yes, oh yes!!! The best B-Boy that ever lived! I seen them all, man. He's the King!"

NORIN RAD:"So you and him were like real tight? Like a team?"

POW WOW:"Yeah, that's right..like a team! Exactly!"

NORIN RAD:"Did you and Marcus Rockwell attend DJ Smokey's parties together?"

POW WOW:"Yeah, I been to DJ Smokey's house, to the parties in his house (on Grant Avenue)! I seen Flash...I also went to the parties in the basement on Garrison Avenue, Fort Apache....I am Hiphop! Trust me! I am Hiphop! I went to everybody.....everybody in the Bronx that had been in this I was there! Over The Dover...Smokey played Over The Dover. That's where you tested your B-Boy skills. He had only like 10 girls in there and all of them were B-Girls bringing it to them dudes, man!!!!! To me at that time the Smoke-A-Trons were the baddest B-Boy crew out....nobody was touching them! Not Casanovas, not Flash, not (Black) Avery, not (Bumpy Face) Melvin....nobody was touching these boys. They were over on Grant Avenue side and their leader was this guy named Ron. It was Ron, Kasiem, Sleepy, a dude named Bombay...  these guys caught my eyes. Ron, Kasiem and Sleepy were the deadly ones as far as dancing. And then what happened was..Ron started teaching me cause I had a lot of records. I would take them to his house and he would teach me how to dance. His favourite record was "Listen To Me" by Baby Huey. He taught me that hardcore B-Boy shit til one day we was on Grant Avenue (at one of DJ Smokey's parties) and I was dancing and then Ron jumped into the circle and I beat him! Yeah, I beat him! That's how I got so good! At times we just went around and danced against everybody and beat them. Kool Herc gave a party one day....in the park.... they were having a B-Boy contest to see who was the best. Me and my boy Marcus we won out of the big people. Out of the little guys that danced our disciple, our student..he won...Lil Keith! " 

NORIN RAD:"Little Boy Keith later on also joined the Zulu Kings, right?"

POW WOW:"Yeah, I used to teach Keith! Me and Marcus..that was our student."

NORIN RAD:"Were was Little Boy Keith from?"

POW WOW:"Little Keith was from the Hill. Me, Little Keith and Marcus and MC G.L.O.B.E. from The Soul Sonic Force that was down with me... I used to teach him how to B-Boy just as well....we was from the Hill. On 170th street & Franklin Avenue. That's where I lived. I never lived in Bronx River...I hung out in Bronx River....but that's my home....I hung out there. I used to teach the Zulu Kings how to dance...me and Marcus. They wasn't at the level that we was at. We're the first generation of Hiphop. We would go to Flash, Smokey and Kool Herc. BAMBAATAA WASN'T EVEN A DJ AT THIS TIME!!"

NORIN RAD:"So you were already dancing at a really early stage like 1973, 1974?"

POW WOW:"Exactly, exactly! 74, 75!! Trust me, brother!"

NORIN RAD:"And Marcus Rockwell used to be a part of the Smoke-A-Trons, right?"

POW WOW:"Yeah, he was with the Smoke-A-Trons, yeah! Then me and him started clicking together and we represented the Zulu Kings, you know? Cause we was hanging out in Bronx River and you know that was my peoples. He ran with me."

NORIN RAD:"Do you recall how you joined the Zulu Kings?"

POW WOW:"I was a Zulu since day one......day one!!! Zambu, Aziz, Ahmed, Squirpy (Shaka)..they were my brothers, yeah!"

NORIN RAD:"You see I'm asking this because when I spoke to Zambu he said that in the beginning they were five B-Boys and they called themselves the Zulu Masters...."

POW WOW:"Alright, alright...let me tell you about that....(laughs) That was a thing of Zambu, Ahmed, Aziz, Shaka and Kusa. I understand. See like I said I didn't live in Bronx River but all those five guys....you know, I hung with them in Bronx River. They all lived in the same building except for Shaka... in 1609... my brother lived in that building so I hung out with those guys over there. When they sat together....they got a crew with Bambaataa and Zulu Masters was the name they called themselves at first but then later they wind up with Zulu Kings. So when they were getting their Zulu names all that.....when they were doing that I was probably across town somewhere, you know? Doing what I do. I got around, I didn't stay at Bronx River. When I came back they said, "Yo, we got the Zulu Kings!! So and so, so. Of course you're down!" I was like, "What do you mean?" Of course I was down! I told Bambaataa- put this in your interview, don't edit shit...I'm keeping it real....some real exclusive shit...I told Bambaataa, "You know it's wrong that you got me coming like I'm a secondary motherfucker. I was teaching them how to dance, man!" I was teaching Ahmed, Zambu...me and Marcus. As I said we were part of the first generation of hiphop we got it from Kool Herc and his B-Boys. So by the time Bambaataa and all of them got real serious about it...we helped them to upgrade their skills.  I tried to keep them up-to-date with that.... that's why you know me and Marcus went around to all these clubs in the night....Over The Dover and Eightball Room and Black Door, 63 Park...all that real Bronx shit!!! Representing Zulu Kings!! The others didn't really leave out of Bronx River per se. Maybe Soundview and all that. They were burrying cats over there but when it came down to the big league they couldn't cut the cake. One time Flash gave a party in 123...and I got there late.. but when I got there you know it was showtime....the lights is on...the big circle...everybody is doing their thing and the Zulu Kings were dancing against the Casanova crew....and a kid told me Casanova Crew was beating Zulus....so I went to the circle and I said to myself, "I gotta do my thing!" So when I came there they really couldn't beat me and I danced against different Casanovas that night. Me and Marcus we dominated! We were the best dancers out of the whole Zulu Nation. Period! Nobody could beat us. Not for nothing, Norin...I don't try to boast cause I'm not a boaster. I'm a real cat but trust me it got to a point were when we got into a circle nobody was dancing anymore. Nobody was jumping in that circle anymore! People used to bet on us! That's how I made a lot of dough sometimes. One time they put 2000 dollars in our faces and said,"You take a stack and you take a stack! We wanna see you dance against each other!" But we was like, "Nah! That's my brother! I ain't dancing against my brother. Keep your dough!" We practiced every day, man! We used to go my house and take the furniture in my living room and put it in a circle and practice how to dance. My mother - may God rest her soul- she was calling us and knocking on the door because we were disturbing her because we were bumping on the floor and knocking things over sometimes. It got to a point where my mother wouldn't knock anymore.  That's how nice we got with this shit!!!! We put the furnitures closer and closer and closer because at a party   we wanted to be able to come out with our moves in big circles AND small circles. Me and my man we lived and breathed we lived that shit for real, man!!!!!"  

NORIN RAD:"I'm really interested in all those spots where original B-Boying was done at. Now you have already mentioned the Garrison and if I'm not mistaken you also made reference to a place called Fort Apache. That's in the South Bronx, right?"

POW WOW:"Yeah, yeah...exactly! On Fox street...that's where Flash used to set his stage up inside the boxing ring because the dancers were too close to him and that's where me and Marcus would go to...now see the Zulu Masters wasn't coming to parties like that. They wasn't coming to places like Fox street, Garrison Avenue....they wasn't coming there. As I said I lived on Fulton Avenue. It started in our hood...now Herc started it but Smokey and Flash took it over, man!" 

NORIN RAD:"Who are some of the unsung B-Boys from back then that you feel deserve more credit than they usually receive?"

POW WOW:"Oh okay..I got you! I mentioned some cats already...Ron, Kaseem, Sleepy, Bombay, Little Barney...ah man....Little Shawn...also KK Rockwell and Keith Cesar  (legendary MCees from the Funky Four), DJ Breakout.....I used to teach them how to dance in my house! (laughs) There's a lot of guys that are unsung that were some good dancers, man!"


NORIN RAD:"Which B-Boys stood out to you at Flash's parties? "

POW WOW:"Flash had like Flipping Mike, RC, Avery, Mean Gene .....Theodore's brother (Pow Wow refers to DJ Mean Gene and Grandwizard Theodore of the legendary L-Brothers)...yeah Mean Gene was a very good dancer when he used to do it....Melle Mel..he was a B-Boy.....It goes on and on....you had different cats in different sections... Uptown.....Cholly Rock to me was the fucking man!!!!  I tell you a story....One day Flash...Grandmaster Flash he gave a party Uptown in the Valley so me and a couple of guys from Bronx River and the girls that I used to teach Clarissa, Barabara and Trina we all went to The Valley and it was showtime in the circle. 
 

Haffen Park, Uptown BX in Hiphop known as The Valley

We heard all this noise ...there was someone killing them all in the circle... so we went to see who that was. Cholly Rock!!!! TEARING IT UP!!!!!! (laughs) He danced.. so then he said, "Yo!!!" He told his people, "Yo, that's my man from downtown I was telling you about!" He said, "Where is Marcus?" I said, "Marcus ain't here." So then me and Cholly Rock....Flash played "Juju Man"that day .....me and Cholly Rock turned the Valley out so bad!!!!!!! Believe me!!!! On the west side of the Bronx there was this guy named Herm. He was a bad dude! He beat me once! He beat me once!! I came back and I beat him but we never had that third battle. Herm was bad!!"

"Juju Man" by Passport (Norin Rad's Beat Stash)

NORIN RAD:"Where did that battle between you and Herm take place at?"

POW WOW:"Where me and Herm danced at was a place called The Eight Ball Room. Grandmaster Caz from the Cold Crush Brothers....at that time he was known as DJ Casanova Fly...."

NORIN RAD:"Yes, when was rocking with the Mighty Force Crew." 

POW WOW:"Yeah, yeah...he had a spot called Eight Ball Room on University Ave up in the Bronx....on the west side of the Bronx and Herm was part of his crew.I mean there was a lot of bad B-Boys from Bronx River area, too! Don't get me wrong. Like Beaver....my little man...my little brother. DJ Cool Clyde.... he had a brother named P-Body...his name was John but we called him P-Body cause he wore thick glasses. A bad dancer!!! There were a lot of bad dancers I'm telling you!"

NORIN RAD:"So how long were you on top of your game?"

POW WOW:"As I said I got into it in 1974. Trixie, Sasa those were the people I watching (at Kool Herc's parties). I was watching them cats. These were the cats doing it before even I got involved in it.  I was watching them and I was like, "OH SHIT!!!!! THAT SHIT IS HOT!!!!" And then I also told you about Ron, Kaseem and Sleepy from The Smoke-A-Trons. Man, I remember one night at Over The Dover... Ron tore that cat Little Barney a new asshole. That was a battle! A real B-Boy battle! That's what I call a B-Boy! Going to a party testing the waters. Like, "Let me see what you got, motherfucker!" Jumping into the circle....showtime!!!! But yeah..1974, 1975 to 1976/77. That's when I was reigning."

NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the Shaka Zulu B-Boys back then?"

POW WOW:"Shaka Zulus...they were our brothers. They challenged the Zulu Kings one day. It was about ten or fifteen of them against us. We tore their ass up! In 123 School.. we tore them up! But see they didn't stand a chance in the first place."

May 27th,1977; JHS 123: The Zulu Kings battle against the Shaka Zulus

 
NORIN RAD: "Mr. Wiggles from The Rock Steady Crew told me that back in 1984 when they were filming Beat Street you showed him a move called the Double Sweep which he referred to as the first Flare he had ever seen. What do you remember about that?"

POW WOW:"Yeah, I was the one who started that! Me and Marcus we started a lot of breaking moves back then. I had a move where I took my left foot and swung it forward and took my right and swung it backwards like (makes a noise) patat-patat-patat.....Me and Marcus we were Boioing Kings, man!"

NORIN RAD:"How did the music affect you back then at the parties?"

POW WOW:"I do what I do...I don't know. The music hit me and you just do what you do like....getting possessed...like getting possessed with something...it just comes to get you!!! The music just comes to get you and your body just reacts to it  and you just dance, man!"

NORIN RAD:"I see. Could you name your favourite B-Boy Joint of all times?"

POW WOW:"(chuckles) My favourite...well....it's a few of them but the favourite one to me was James Brown "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose"...that's my favourite of all time...that...."Listen To Me", "It's Just Begun"....Alvin Cash "Keep On Dancing"....."On Top Of It" by All Directions....Bambaataa played some Funk...uuh.....that made you move, believe me!"

 

DJ Afrika Bambaata (Founder of the Zulu Nation & Master Of Records)

NORIN RAD:"From what I have heard B-Boying faded away in the late 1970ies and the MCees took over. You were one of those B-Boys that went on to become a legendary MC as a member of The Soul Sonic Force. What made you quit Breaking and pick up MCing?"

POW WOW:"What made me quit B-Boying was I had nobody to dance against. It wasn't nobody to dance against anymore and a change came. The microphone...people started MCing. I liked it so I said, "Okay, this is the next step in this shit." I got down with it and this is history just as well."

                                                             END OF PART ONE