INTERVIEW WITH THE ORIGINAL  B-BOY SASA

                             conducted by Sir Norin Rad ( The Intruders Crew / Germany) 

                             

                                                        on May 27th, 2017 


Norin Rad: "Where did you live at when you started atttending Kool DJ Herc's parties?"

Sasa: "On W 172nd street and Jesup Avenue. That's on the West Side of the Bronx."

Norin Rad: "How did you know about Kool DJ Herc's parties? Who told you about them?"

Sasa: "My best friend's older brother was Coke La Rock who DJed with Kool Herc.    So while we were at my best friend's house Coke used to be talking about these parties. Me and his brother were a little too young to get into the parties at the time but being that my friend was Coke La Rock's brother they let us in."

Norin Rad: "What was the name of Coke La Rock's brother?

Sasa:"(laughs) Oh, his name was Porky."

 Norin Rad: "Ok, let me tell you about the perspective on Breaking of most cats out here in Europe..The first thing that we heard about was usually the Rock Steady Crew and that time frame of the late 1970ies to early 1980ies. Now you and guys like Trixie go back way further than that. What was Breaking like when you did it?"

Sasa: "Well, my thing..it was finesse, right?! I NEVER spinned on my back or nothing like that. I used to do floormoves like ...how can I say that..I would do moves almost like James Brown gettin' down and comin' up spinnin' but I would never be  spinning on my back. Mines was a lot of  finesse and class, you know?!  Not that them guys have no class who are spinning on their back but it's like...I don't know.. I consider myself to be more classy. Mines was like.."

 Norin Rad:" (laughs) Right!"

Sasa: "Yeah man, I didn't look like I had an epileptic fit! I mean to a degree some look nice, some look smooth but some look like they have an epilectic fit. Nah, I never spun on my back. If you know about James Brown that's the type of stuff I used to do but it was mine it wasn't Brown's. I made it into my stuff 'cause I added a litte different touch and whatnot. My floormoves..because I was double jointed like.. I would bend up into a pretzel...like on the floor, like a pretzel.. I come up spinning, you know?! Then I would roll into a ball, come up with a spin.So basically I got a bunch of little moves on the floor. I ended them with a spin, came up and then I started dancing. Comin' up doin all types of things from The Robot to.. I had a thing called The Telephone Man. You know, I just went into a bunch of routines when I came up from the floor."

Norin Rad: "Incredible! Yes, I have heard that all Original B-Boys did routines back then. They would impersonate various characters when they danced like Frankenstein's Monster..So how would that Telephone Man routine of your look like?

Sasa: "Well, I would act like I go into a telephone booth 'cause you know back then they still had telephone booths...all this while I was still dancing but they could see what it was...so I would go into that booth and I would show like I was making a telephone call, right?! So then I had the telephone in my ear  like somebody had said something obscene so I took the telephone from my face and looked at the telephone and had a surpised look on my face like somebody done said something obscene. I made an expression on my face like "I can't believe he just said that!"or "Who's this?"  You know?! And then I slammed the phone like you're talking to somebody and they say something obscene and you dislike it and you hang up?  So I would hang up on them and I would go into a spin down on the floor do a bunch of floormoves and then spin back up and then do something else!"

Norin Rad: "Ah shit!!!! And all this was done to rhyhtm of the song, right? I mean you weren't off beat?"

Sasa:"It's ALWAYS to the ryhthm!!! That's what impressed them!"

Norin Rad: "Damn!"

Sasa: "Yeah!!! It was all to the rhythm! Then there were contests where I would dance against other people. One move that I would do, people loved it ..I would act like I put a rope around them and then I started slinging them and I would act like I was throwing them on top of a building 'cause that was at a block party so there was buildings around. I never did this like inside a disco or a club. I could only do this particular move if I'm outside. Put a rope around them and throw' em on a building or whip them and everything  ...or even sometimes I would do The Robot after I roped them I'd go out of The Robot  and throw them on top of a building and then I would go to that building and people would think that I would do my opponents on top of the building. But you know what, Norin? I was this type..I had so much love for music and dancing that sometimes when I danced  basically it would feel like my performance of a dance would come from like really  the Holy Ghost. You know like someone at church and they're feeling the Holy Ghost? Right, I would just feel the Holy Ghost when I went to dance and would I just black out from the love of it and then the love of it leads to certain moves. There were certain moves that I wouldn't do at a party  because I didn't want my competition attach to my moves and do them on me. You understand what I'm saying? That's one way I finished off Trixie! It's because he had this set of patterned moves. So what I did I capitalized of this thing.  Like for instance Trixie sometimes used to pull out a fake penis when he danced. When he  did that to me I pulled out a pair of scissors."

Norin Rad: "Oh Shit!"

Sasa: "I pulled out a pair of scissors and made like I cut it off! So when I made like I cut it off the crowd went crazy!!! Cause nobody ever did that to him. That's kind of embarassing, you know? So when I did that...that hurt him, that hurt him!! I am a natural gifted dancer!  I knew when I took Trixie's tricks away and then he would have to dance, he'd be in trouble.  Cause I'm not about tricks..  so he had a lot of tricks but I didn't think he was that much of a natural dancer...but he could dance, now don't get me wrong..but he had tricks and stuff like that so I figured I cut out his tricks and then I got him. And guess what, Norin?  I took away his tricks and I got him! I got him! 'Cause now he had to dance for real and if anything..I mean he could dance but he just wasn't on my level of dance. So that's when his brother jumped in trying to revenge him..."

Norin Rad: "Rossy, right?"

Sasa: "Yeah, Rossy...so then I ended up burning him. The crowd went :"Wow, Sa!!!" It was amazing and then Trixie and Rossy had an attitude."

Norin Rad: "I love these kind of stories, for real!"

Sasa: "It was an amazing event then because really I didn't wanna go against him. Like my sister..they were at that party I ended up not even going to the party that night but they called me on the phone and said, "Get down here because he's calling you a chump, a chicken, you scared and everything." Then they told me to get a cab, I got a cab came down there and then I just tore him and his brother up."

Norin Rad: "Did that happen at a Kool Herc party?"

Sasa: "It was a Kool Herc party and mind you I was a young dude I'm doing that like 14 ! Trixie was probably like 18 something like that."

Norin Rad: "And do you recall where exactly that battle took place at?"

Sasa: "It was on Jerome Avenue at a big disco."

Norin Rad:"What's the name of that disco?"

Sasa:"The Twilight Zone. Yeah, that's where I defeated him at....The Twilight Zone."

Norin Rad: "Okay, obviously Trixie and you were like the Kings of Breaking at that time. Could you tell me which other B-Boys stood out during the early to mid 1970ies?"

Sasa: "Yeah, yeah well one guy was amazing his name was Chubby. One day he crashed the party, he had the whole party stop. He came in with a bunch of guys and they were after me. Me and him danced and I beat him."

Norin Rad:"Where was he from? The West Side?"

Sasa: "He was from the East Side, from The Nine. Chip knows about him. Then you had Johnny Kool, James Bond..."

Norin Rad:"James Bond.....what was your relationship with him?"

Sasa: "We had a good relationship. Whenever I was at a party and he was there he always came up to me and we would chat for a while.  Me and him were real kool. He never challenged me."

Norin Rad: "What about outstanding B-Girls back then?"

Sasa:"Yeah, as I can recall...Sister Boo and Mother Earth!"

Norin Rad:"Mother Earth!!! Who was she? Would she also battle dudes or only girls?"

Sasa: "She used to tear some dudes up! She used to do a thing ..like towards the end of her dance..how she would end her dance..she would act like she was digging a ten foot grave and act like she would put them in there and then put the dirt back up on them.  Mother Earth was real fly. She always dressed impressively."

Norin Rad: " And so Sister Boo and Mother Earth would also dance at Kool DJ Herc's parties?"

Sasa:"Yes, they would do their thing and draw a big crowd!"

Norin Rad:"If you had to name five of your favourite B-Boy Joints...like those which as you said made you catch the Holy Ghost at Kool DJ Herc's parties...which joints would that be?"

Sasa:"Okay, which songs I would get that sort of feeling from? You know, beat number one is Jimmy Castor..."

Norin Rad: "It's just begun!!!!"

Sasa: "Yeah, It's Just Begun. Right, Doing It In The Park... Blackbyrds.. Rock Creek Park...Then there was another one called Voodounoun and let me see..."

Norin Rad: "What about Listen To Me by Baby Huey?

Sasa:"Nah, nah, that wasn't me. That didn't move me. That moved some people but I wasn't feelin' that. So what's another one?  There was another one called Together Brothers it was a soundtrack of a movie by Barry White. (hums the melody of "Find The Man Bros.)"

Norin Rad: "But it wasn't just all about breaking all night at a Kool Herc party, right?

Sasa: "Yeah, it was a variety!

Norin Rad:"Could you name like two slow jams that were played on the regular at Kool Herc's parties?"

Sasa: "(sings) Baby Come Close! That was by Smokey Robinson....and another one was The Bells by The Originals."

Norin Rad:"I also heard that "For The Love I Gave To You" by The Delfonics was played at those parties"

Sasa:"Yes, Herc always played that at the end of his parties. It was almost like his signature slow jam. Then again I only named four, I got another Jimmy Castor that used to make me move.  It was: (sings A Groove Will Make You Move) "I went to a party all the way across town...everybody was gettin' down" And then the instrumental beat is crazy!!!! Ey man, the whole party would stand up and dance on this one. 'Cause you know they was feelin' it... he said:"I went to a party all the way across town" and   that's exactly what some people did. They came way across town to get to to Herc's party so they was feelin' it."

Norin Rad:"Damn...Chip and Trixie told me that some people took a car service to get to Herc's parties..."

Sasa:"OH YEAH YEAH YEAH!!! Can I tell you something, Norin. It was exotic, it was fabulous. People comin all dressed up and people from all over..Anybody who's somebody was there:You know they got the big cars out in front, you know?! Spending money in the bar, you know?! Big jewelry!!! That's why people wanted to be there. The women were dressed beautiful, everybody was dressed beautiful. If you was bummy, you wasn't getting in."

Norin Rad:"So that's what Herc meant when he said that anyone who wanted to attend his parties had to look splivvy?"

Sasa: " It was the word back then. They don't use it no more but that was our word...Yeah Splivvy!!!! Or That's The Joint!"

Norin Rad:"Okay now from your perspective where did the name B-Boy came from and what does it stand for?"

Sasa: "I think Herc came up with that because I didn't really like that name myself. I considered myself to be a phenomenal dancer instead of B-Boy. B-Boy was like..okay B stands for breaking. It seemed to be like a name for people who come in there to the party and just flip out....but that was the title he gave."

Norin Rad: "Right...and what made you call yourself Sasa?"

Sasa: "Well, I had just come around the area. I had moved from the East Side of the Bronx to the West Side of Bronx. So I had just moved in the neighbourhood. My nickname was Muddy that's what my family called me but I didn't like other people calling me Muddy. So I figured I had to come up with a nickname, you know, that identified me with the new friends that I want to meet. So I started thinking and I came up with SASA which means like "Sauce" in Spanish but I didn't know that I just made it up."

Norin Rad:" This leads me to an important question. Are you Puerto Rican or Black? There are some people who claim that you are Puerto Rican..."

Sasa: (laughs)"I'm black."

Norin Rad:"Did your dancing skills establish a street reputation back then?"

Sasa:"Yes it did! Yes it did! Like say for instance I came from Junior High School to High School. You know like when you first come to High School you gotta adjust and you gotta find your way to fit in? Soon I came to High School and when I walked the halls all the people in my High School went, "There goes Sasa!! What's up Sasa?!!" Then again too, there were times when I  went into areas to buy things like sneakers, Pro-Keds....Pro-Keds was the thing back then.. and discount leather coats and stuff like that Sometimes you had stick up kids there but when I popped up..the stick up kids were like, "There goes Sasa!!"  They wouldn't even try to rob me! Coke La Rock would shout me out on the mic at Herc's parties he was like a brother to me. I would always get into the parties for free because they knew that I would draw  more people to their party and I would entertain them."

Norin Rad:"When did you retire from dancing and what made you retire?"

Sasa:"76 was the final time I really considered myself a battle dancer. After 76 I wasn't battling up there, you know, because I became a street hustler and I was splurging.....I had cars, money and all that at 16, Norin!"