Interview with B-Boy Kusa (The Zulu Masters)


                                                                       

Kusa (The Zulu Masters)

                                                             

conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Bronx are you originally?"

KUSA:"Bronx, New York. Bronx River Houses. Born and raised!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your first encounter with B-Boying?"

KUSA:"Okay, my first encounter...I was like 12, maybe 13....I wasn't really a Zulu King yet but they was throwing a jam in the center of Bronx River and they was playing the music and the Black Spades was there! I was looking around and they was dancing crazy! I always liked the music so I was hooked to the music already. When I saw them doing their thing and all that I said, "Yo, what am I getting myself into?" but at the same time as I said I liked the music so that's what drew me to it."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall which songs were played at that party in Bronx River Center?"

KUSA:"James Brown! A lot of James Brown....."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Give It up Or Turnit A Loose?"

KUSA:"Yeah and they had this joint which used to be like, "Soul Power!!!"  and the Black Spades always used to chant "Spade Power!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did the dance look like which the Black Spades were doing? I guess there weren't doing any floor moves?"

KUSA:"No, they were doing something with their feet and their hands.....it was like real deep and I was standing there like,"What am I getting myself into?" I mean they was doing their thing but it wasn't to the floor. It was no B-Boying!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were they doing something like burning each other? Using certain hand gestures and facial expressions to intimidate their opponents on the dance floor?"

KUSA:"That was when B-Boying started coming in! Cause like you had a person that was breaking against you and they would take of  your head, throw it up and get a bat and swing it and it would look like they'd hit your head out of the ball park."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Ok, but you're saying that's not what the Black Spades were doing, right?"

KUSA:"No, no, no!!!! It was like a thing where they would be stomping with their heavy boots. They would wear a Levi's denim jacket with cut off sleeves with their gang sign colors on their back..."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was DJing at that party?"

KUSA:"Bambaataa was playing the music." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what happened after that party? What were your next steps towards becoming a B-Boy?"

KUSA:"Right after that it seemed like they left so fast....the Spades...I'm not saying they left but it seemed  like the wind blew in and they was gone, you know!? So then we started breakdancing...doing the floor thing....we used to dance wherever Bam used to play for people. 

We started breakdancing there and then we named ourselves the Zulu Kings. So he used to like pay us maybe 5$ and we would take that money and go to White Castle. You know, things like that. Then what happened was we started getting nicer and then talent shows started coming. Monroe, Stevenson, all around...now we wanted to get in the talent shows so we started performing there...doing our steps to "Apache" by The Incredible Bongo Band....we did our routines all that....and we used to win all the time. I mean, we never lost a talent show! When we used to  perform at these talent shows as soon as they said, "The Zulu Kings!!!" everybody left their seat, ran to the front, nobody was in their seat!!! Nobody!"

SIR NORIN RAD: Did the Zulu Masters / Kings have a specific practice spot?"

KUSA:"Yes, upstairs in the center in Bronx River. The community center. At that time when we was young the community center was open to us. We had no problems getting rooms or whatever. We would practice our routines there but we also practiced our individual moves at home, you know?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you have a boom box with you?"

KUSA:"It was a record player because we had the albums."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where did you get your name from?"

KUSA:"Afrika Bambaataa gave us our names."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What does "Kusa" stand for?"

KUSA:"It means "Superior King"."

SIR NORIN RAD:"From where did you know the other Zulu Kings?"

 

KUSA:"We grew up together. Zambu lived in my building. Yeah, he grew up in my building! I lived on the 7th floor, Zambu lived on the 5th floor.  Ahmed lived on the 8th floor. Aziz lived on the 12th floor. Shaka lived across from us in 1595. I also grew up with Beaver. He was always nasty! That was my man!!!! He was just one year younger than me. His brother Poo Poo, I hung with Poo Poo, too. Me and him was tight all the time! Beaver was never defeated by anyone!!! He was undefeated!! Undefeated!!! I mean I have never seen nobody with footwork like that in my life!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you go to other areas and challenge the B-Boys over there as Zulu Kings?"

KUSA:"We was nice so we didn't have to do that. We just did our own thing. We went to other places and we danced over there but it wasn't really like a challenge thing because nobody really wanted to challenge us. But there were a lot of battles going on back then."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the most outstanding B-Boys in those areas next to Bronx River......like in Monroe or Castle Hill?"

KUSA:"There was B-Boys in every projects!!!! Chipper and them.....those guys I remember. They were from Monroe. They also had a guy named Worm....he used to B-Boy. He was nasty!!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Afrika Zambu told me that in the beginning you called yourselves Zulu Masters. Why did you change that later on to Zulu Kings?"

KUSA:"I think we agreed that we didn't like that name so we changed it real quick. I don't even think we ever wore Zulu Masters on our shirts."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall who recruited you for the Zulu Masters/ Kings?"

KUSA:"Man, I don't know if it was Bam but I think he was because he was the one who came up with the name "ZULU". So it has to be him if anything."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have heard that a gentleman by the name of Poochie Turner who was very nice when it came to dancing was a huge influence on all of the original Zulu Masters/Kings. How important was he for your development as a B-Boy? Did he show you the ropes?"

KUSA:"Yes, him and Zambu but he had his own moves. He was a huge influence on all of us. He lived in my building and he was down in our era. He was real nasty! His favourite record was "Give It Up Turnit A Loose". 

SIR NORIN RAD:"When you are referring to footwork what exactly do you mean? Are you talking about doing certain movements with your feet while being in a crouching position on the floor?"

KUSA:"Yes, because there was no spinning on your head and things like that. We didn't do that!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So footwork was very important in your era?"

KUSA:"Yes, it was! But I had a famous move they called the Jelly Roll. I would roll over and then flop on the floor."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you describe your own footwork style?"

KUSA:"Smooth and funky! I wasn't fast like Beaver. Beaver was something else....I mean I never saw anything like that in my life, man!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you remember about the relationship of the Zulu Kings with the B-Boys of the Shaka Zulus? Wade, the founder of the Shaka Zulus, told me that he once auditioned to become a member of the Zulu Kings but you rejected him and so he became very upset and he went and formed his own crew which was called the Shaka Zulus. Bambaataa gave him his blessings to do that..."

KUSA:"Wade!! That's my man! (laughs heavily) He was down with us but we already had our main five (Shaka, Zambu, Aziz, Ahmed and Kusa). Later on I started to get out of it. I was getting a little older...you know, how people say they retire but nobody retires from that. Beaver came and he took my spot. Beaver came and he performed I think twice with the Zulu Kings at talent shows.  After that we (the original five Zulu Kings) got older. Things started fading from the B-Boy thing. Everything started to be like a laid back thing...cool....you know like you get a new wardrobe...you get fresh...you go to the party and chill listening to the music."

SIR NORIN RAD:"But do you remember the day when Wade was told that he didn't make it?"

KUSA:"Yes, I do but it wasn't a thing that he didn't make it. Wade was swift with his feet! Wade was nasty! He had is crew.....him, Popeye and some others that I can't remember. A couple of brothers and they was nasty!!!! But it was a thing that we had our main five already. We had already established that we were the Zulu Kings who were doing shows. Nobody else could get that name. So Wade and them became Shaka Zulus. It wasn't a thing that we didn't want him in. It was just a thing that we were already established with our name!"

Wade (The Shaka Zulus) & Kusa (The Zulu Masters)

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. Do you also recall Wade's B-Boy partner Angel? A Puerto Rican B-Boy?"

KUSA:"Angel....Yes, I do. I think he was from Bronxdale."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Ok, there is a flyer from 1977 advertising a battle between the Zulu Kings and the Shaka Zulus at JHS 123..........."

KUSA:"Yeah, I remember that day!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"And I have heard that five Zulu Kings went against like 15 or 20 Shaka Zulus. Were you present at that battle?"

KUSA:"Yes I was!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe how that battle went down!"

KUSA:"I'm gonna tell you it was like a real strong battle for maybe an hour!!! One hour! Strong! But to me it was like that it started as a battle but afterwards it was like we are all down together! So let's just rock and tear it up! You know, after a while it wasn't a battle no more it became like, "We are partying together! Let's just do our thing!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who won that battle? Wade feels like his Shaka Zulus took you out that day!"

KUSA:"Okay, now you gotta remember it was five of us against fifteen of them. So if you got fifteen guys trying to tear up five people you're really coming at us!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"And I guess that whole thing took place on concrete?"

KUSA:"There was no cardboard...none of that. It was strictly on concrete floor....your knuckles got scraped up, you maybe fell...scratch your elbows...like I said everything was to the ground and fancy footwork! At that battle you had these two girls from Bronxdale...Reeta and Dee Dee..they were sisters.....one of them has passed....but they was nasty!!!!!  I never saw any B-Girls as nasty as them in my life!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Were they Shaka Zulus?"

KUSA:"No, they were just neighbourhood people (they were actually down with Mario's Chuck City Crew) but you know when you were in that circle we were all family, you understand??"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was DJing at that party?"

KUSA:"At 123? That was Bam.....and I think Disco King Mario...he had one side and Bam had the other. If I'm not mistaken because it also could have been just Bam. 123 was really Mario's spot after a while."

May 27th, 1977: The Zulu Kings battle the Shaka Zulus at JHS 123

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall whether Mario had any B-Boys back then?"

KUSA:"Yes, they had B-Boys, they had Sterl, Cleamont....they had a couple of them. I can't get all their names but I know Sterl. Sterl was Dee Dee and Reeta's brother. He was nasty with his feet, too!!! Nasty!! Nasty!!"

B-Girl Dee Dee and her brother B-Boy Sterl (The Chuck City Crew/ Bronxdale)

 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it true that it was dangerous for B-Boys from outside of Bronx River to come to Bambaataa's parties back then? Like if they didn't behave accordingly they would get beaten up and have their sneakers and their silver medaillon taken from them?"

KUSA:"(chuckles) Well, I'm gonna say now that you're talking about this.....we were all in the same circle. It was like a thing...DON'T MESS UP IN BRONX RIVER!!....you know what I'm saying? Bam used to have packed parties but after a while we became real strong...Bronx River...and a lot of people they usually got their ass whipped! Like if it's packed up in there and you acted up you got it! And that's how these parties started dying down because people were scared to go there because there was always something jumping off! And it wasn't a thing that people were robbing and stealing it was a thing that once you got beat up they might take your stuff, too. That's how it was......"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess it was always safer to know somebody from Bronx River if you wanted to go there?"

KUSA:"Exactly! A lot of things were happening! Don't get me wrong! You had this brother named Spider. I don't know how you wanna put it but he held it down when it came down to armour, you know what I'm saying? And you had a brother named Crazy Mike.  He was nasty with his hands. He had the handspeed, Spider had the armour game. Spider had a crew called the Gestapos. You had D.J., a couple of them they were Gestapo."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the function of the Gestapos? Were they security or were they B-Boys?"

KUSA:"They wasn't B-Boys. Nah!!! They was just down! They was from Bronx River and if you could say they were security but ain't nobody was messing with Bronx River! Nobody!!! Nooobody! Nobody came through there and if they did, they tried they never succeeded!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When and how did all these other Zulu Kings join your ranks? I mean those that came in after the first five original members....like Pow Wow and Marcus Rockwell?"  

KUSA:"Pow Wow was already down with us. Pow Wow was down! He brought Marcus from his side. They was nasty, too! Pow Wow was nasty with his feet! Pow Wow was definetely nasty!!!! You gotta remember the Zulu Kings were first! Before even the Zulu Nation was formed! So many people wanted to be down with the Zulu Kings! That's why Bambaataa created the Zulu Nation."

Marcus Rockwell & Pow Wow (The Zulu Kings)

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was that part of the dance called that was done on top before you got down on the floor? Did you call it Top Rock or Up Rock?"

KUSA:"That thing was like a freestyle thing before you got to the floor. I don't really remember the names that you've just said. It was like a freestyle thing. You'd just do a little dance, get yourself ready before you drop, you know? It was like a freestyle thing."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Back in your era it was actually very important to match the beat with your dancing, right? Today there is a lot of incredible acrobatics involved but to me it oftentimes seems as if the soul and funkyness is missing."

KUSA:"It was totally different then. We really felt it back then, you know what I'm saying. The vibe that you see now is....(chuckles)....don't get me wrong..I watch some of the new stuff...especially the Chinese guys...they're nasty with the acrobatics but it is just not the same. The original flavour is gone! It's gone, man! But it has to be that way because eveything changes its course. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what were your top five B-Boy beats to go off to back then?"

KUSA:"The number one record is "Apache" by The Incredible Bongo Band, then you got James Brown...... "Give It Up Or Turnit A Loose". Then you got "It's Just Begun"  by The Jimmy Castor Bunch...then you may have "Funky Music Is The Thing" by The Dynamic Corvettes and you had another one that I liked....it was "Listen To Me" by Baby Huey. The breakbeat on it was incredible!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"I love that song, too! The way it starts out kind of slow and then gradually becomes faster.......the break at the end of it.......the whole atmosphere....."

KUSA:"That's a mean joint right there! Certain songs when they used to play them back then and you would listen to them......they would get to you!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So back then when you were partying in JHS 123 or in Bronx River those beats would move your soul?"

KUSA:"Yes they did! That's what kept me coming! The beats! And most of these records were right in your momma's house. They were right there!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of clothing would the Zulu Kings wear? Did you wear sweaters with your crew's name on it? "

KUSA:"At that time we didn't have sweatshirts. We had a T-Shirt that had "Zulu Kings" on it. Maybe one had a t-shirt with silver letters...then we had a shirt with blue or black letters. We mostly wore Lee and 69ers. Then Adidas came out a little later."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So Pro-Keds were like the B-Boys' footwear of choice back then?"

KUSA:"Yeah!! The 69ers....Maybe a little Converses, too. But Pro-Keds was definetely number one!"

Pro-Keds 69ers (from Sir Norin Rad's Sneaker collection)

  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Busy Bee Starski mentioned in that book "Yes, Yes, Y'all!" by Jim Fricke (page 52) that when he came to Bronx River for the first time cats over there were rocking ski jackets, ski hats and ski goggles. What do you remember about this?"

KUSA:"Yeah!! We had a thing called a one piece ski suit or you had a ski jacket and you wore ski goggles...like when it snowed. That was definitely a style back then. Definitely!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"And people danced in this kind of clothes?"

KUSA:"Well, some of us did but it wasn't a heavy snow suit. Later on I stopped messing with that after I had stopped breaking and then I just started dressing fresh. That came from going to a party every Friday and Saturday. Every Friday and Saturday we had a party to go to! So you can't wear the same clothes all the time. You gotta find something new. After a while it became like a style thing, you know? Like who could rock the flyest gear? Who looked better? Not who looked better but how you looked, your appearance. It was an appearance thing. You couldn't come in there sloppy!!! Nobody really in those parties came sloppy.  They was fresh! There was no bummy thing about that!!!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you would cop stuff like the Italian knits, the Alpaca sweaters, the Playboys, the British Walkers, right? Would you shop at A.J. Lester's?"

KUSA:"We had a place called Jew Man's. A.J. Lester's was a little step up. Jew Man's started getting stuff like that. Then we had another spot on Freeman street called Sneaker King.. That's were we brought our stuff from 'cause we made a lot of deals with Jew Man's."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you wear Kangols?"

KUSA:"I wasn't a Kangol person. We was more into getting a hair cut, putting stuff in your hair to make it shine. Me and Poo Poo and my man Charles a.k.a. Rock we stayed fresh. It was a couple of us, man. It became a thing in the late 1970ies that we laid back now. Rock Steady and them came into the game then. B-Boys started doing headspins and stuff like that. We wasn't getting dirty and sweaty no more. It was a thing where we would just fall back, mingling with girls." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which locations would you go to in order to party after you had stopped B-Boying?"

KUSA:"We would go to the T-Connection, the Fever......then of course we would still always party in Bronx River. In the summer time there would be multiple jams." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did you first notice Puerto Rican B-Boys entering the scene? Were there any notable Puerto Rican B-Boys that you remember from Bronx River? I mean Angel from Bronxdale who was down with the Shaka Zulus was obviously a Puerto Rican B-Boy?"

KUSA:"Angel was like a black Puerto Rican at that time 'cause if you look at Angel he didn't look Spanish. Now the Spanish came when Rock Steady and them came (late 1970ies)....at least in my eyes! But we had one brother named Peter Garcia...he was from Bronx River....he was Little Zambu. He was nasty with his feet,too!!! God bless the dead! Nasty!!!! Nasty!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which building was he from?"

KUSA:"Little Zambu was from 1440. There was no trouble between Blacks and Puerto Ricans in Bronx River. At that time it was love. That was it. Only outsiders who came there and acted up got in trouble. I say it like this, Bam didn't want it like that. We were like brothers. "

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you rate each of the original 5 Zulu Masters / Kings?"

KUSA:"When we started we was just so free with it.  Each member had his own different style. We was like a dance group...we was nasty when the parties came. We would form a circle and we would just do our thing. That's how it was! All this other stuff came later. Aziz was nasty, Shaka......all of us. We was nice! But like I said once Beaver came and I started watching him.....I don't know this boy had like rubberband legs.....Beaver was soo advanced!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when Beaver entered the scene he changed the whole game of breaking? Do you recall a battle between him and Lil Boy Keith in Bronx River?"

KUSA:"Yeah, it was over when Beaver came! He took it to another level. I mean it was difficult to see his feet. That's how fast he was moving. Lil Boy Keith never took out Beaver. It wasn't like that. Lil Boy Keith was nasty, I'm telling you! But Beaver dominated to me. Lil Boy Keith is my man but Beaver was on a different level. Keith and Marcus....they were nasty! I give them that. Probably many people think there a was a battle but as I said it was a thing that we all just got in there. By that time I had stopped already. Everybody just did their thing, you know what I'm saying?  Beaver was never defeated just like he said in his interview!"

Beaver (The Little Zulu Kings)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which role played the Hustle dance at those parties in Bronx River back then?"

KUSA:"Hustling was in there. Hustling was with the B-Boy thing. That's when the DJs would play certain things and you had a brother named Boyo! God bless the dead! I mean the way he hustled.....the girls used to wait on line to hustle with him! He was so nasty!! He could dance with two girls at the same time! Spin one arm and then another one would come. They would be waiting 'cause he was so smooth with it! He was from Bronx River....he lived in 1609....and he was Spanish....Boyo was Puerto Rican."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the Crazy 8 Zulus from Monroe? DJ Afrika Issac and DJ Afrika Little Khayan?"

KUSA:"That's my peoples, man!! Damn, how you know all of this stuff?!? They was down, they had their little set. You gotta remember I used to DJ, too! I remember when we were young DJs and we were playing in the old center and it was four rooms. I played in one, Lil Khayan and Issac played in another room.....I forgot the other crews that played in there. It was four DJs going on and my room was the most crowded and Issac their room was also very crowded. The other two in the back I can't remember but they had no crowd."

DJ Afrika Issac and DJ Afrika Little Khayan (The Crazy 8)

SIR NORIN RAD:"What made you start DJing? Did Afrika Zambu teach you?"

KUSA:"Well, you know I'd say yes and no because I started doing my little thing, too, with the cutting and scratching but Zambu definitely had an influence because we used to go to his mom's house. We used his mom's stereo and I would take my mom's stereo and  bring it downstairs. At that time we didn't have a mixer we just turned the knob up and down. That's when it was starting." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have been told that Afrika Zambu was Afrika Bambaataa's first DJ partner along with a gentleman by the name of DJ Sinbad.

KUSA:"Yes, Sinbad was the soundman. He actually DJed a little bit, too."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Then later on Afrika Islam and DJ Jazzy Jay replaced them, right? They adapted to that new style of DJing which involved the backspin that had been invented by Grandmaster Flash....."

KUSA:"Exactly! And Grandwizard Theodore!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shout outs at the end of this interview?"

KUSA:"I would like to shout out my family! Brent, Bolo, Bert, Joey Crack, Timmy, TB, Mike, Rock, Tony Rome and the rest of my brothers and sisters from Bronx River."

                           Interview with MC Roger K (The T.N.T. Disco Crew / The Jazzy 3 MCs)

 

Roger K (The T.N.T. Disco Crew / The Jazzy 3 MCs)

                                  conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)


SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Boogie Down Bronx are you originally?"

ROGER K:"Well I'm originally from.....and always still from... 225th street & Laconia Avenue. This is an area known as Edenwald Projects. It is a very well known projects throughout the entire state of New York. It is very urban, very inner city with all of the problems and things that come with it. I in fact lived in a building 1155....East 225th street ...between Laconia and Schieffelin."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Where and when did your first encounter with Hiphop take place?"

ROGER K:" My very first time that I heard anything about Hiphop was from a DJ called Kool Herc. Very big guy, tall, red beard, very well known in the Hiphop community. He is what I looked up to. He really didn't have any MCs at that time. There were people who would just come up who knew him and asked to take the mic and they would just freestyle or whatever it was at that time. And then shortly after that other crews began to form like The Brothers Disco and I was very influenced by them and later on we...The T.N.T Disco Crew....we used to open up for them and in very big venues. And so we became well-known and they saw how well we performed so we opened up for them at a lot of places. That's how we met Grandmaster Flash and Grandwizard Theodore and so on and so forth."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So in terms of your major influence in MCing it was the MCs of the The Funky Four ( MC squad of The Brothers Disco)?"

ROGER K:"Oh, yes! Definetely! I mean they were such a big influence on myself and the Jazzy 3 MCs and our DJs because first of all we all knew each other. When you grew up in Edenwald you were well-known just for growing up there. It was a place where if they didn't know you or if you weren't known by someone who lived there you would not come into. And it's still that way to this day! It's crazy! The Brothers Disco would come to Edenwald and perform there and you know back in the days they had the ropes up so that you couldn't come to where the MCs and DJs were and since we were known we were able to come under the ropes and listening to them. They were a huge influence, a huge influence!!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall which MC of the Funky Four specifically influenced you to become a MC yourself?"

ROGER K:"Well, because at the time your rhymes were very important but the way you sounded on the mic...your voice..that's what drew people. MC Sha Rock...who happens to be a female...when she picked up the mic and when she rocked the mic....I mean, I seen people who never ever had even heard anyone on the mic....they would come. I saw parents come from grocery stores with their children just walk up to see what was going on just because of the melodic sound of her voice!  She was awesome! After her I would say MC Keith Keith and MC Rahiem. They were very instrumental, very instrumental. And then the way I would see DJ Breakout mix the records and DJ Baron...and those were favourite records like "Apache" and "Good Times". Then when I heard that and when I saw how the crowd would hear the music....they would just be like lifted with joy!!! And then the MCs would come on and they would just level everyone! There would be just total elation!!!! It was something to be seen!"  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Oh, man!! You picture it very well!"

ROGER K:"I have to tell you I got goose bumps right now just from you helping me relive that! It was awesome and it will forever be a part of my life, forever!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"That took place in the late 1970ies, right? Like 1978, 1979?"

ROGER K:"Oh yes, around 1978 but prior to that I was listening to DJ Kool Herc and MCing wasn't really popular at that time. DJs would come out and they would play the music. People would come out and they would barbecue and they would just have a good time. Outdoors it was hot, no one wanted to be in the house.  So you would hear this music with these big speakers echoing throughout the projects and you'd just be drawn to it. I mean, we as a people are always drawn to music. It's just within us. And then as we heard this music....some of our favourite songs and some of our favourite parts of these songs (the breakbeats) being played over and over again...you'd say,"How does this person do that?" and you'd get to the ropes and you'd see this man with these two turntables..at the time Technics...and you'd say,"Mmmh, that's how he keeps playing my favourite part of the song without any interuption!" It was awesome! It was awesome!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Having spoken to a lot of the original B-Boys I know that there was a time in Hiphop before there were any MCs, when the jams were all about the DJs and the B-Boys and B-Girls and legendary songs like "Apache", "Scorpio","It's Just Begun", "Yellow Sunshine" had them dancing....."

ROGER K:"Yeah, you named them correctly! Especially "Apache"! When it would come on and you would hear that ( hums the melody of "Apache") and you'd hear the beat and then the drums came in and you would see the B-Boy just go off!!! Crowds would form around them...circles....I mean way before MCs...circles and they would go off! I mean the acrobatics and the physicality of it all! And you were just drawn to watch them, listening to your favourite songs and then later on as the MCs were introduced to Hiphop they would be saying stuff like, "Yeah, I see you Kenny Boy!" This and that! Whoever their favourite B-Boy was."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Let's go back for a minute to how T.N.T. Disco was formed. What did TNT  stand for? ?"

ROGER K:"Tommy and Tony. Tommy was our manager...God rest him...he passed away. They formed it. Timmy Tim was one of the original DJs and later on we got DJ Shevin and he was amazing. People said he was better than DJ Flash and DJ Theodore. Other crews tried to steal him from us, you know? They really encouraged him they said, "You can make so much money!" This and that! But he stayed loyal!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Is DJ Shevin the same person as DJ Shevy Shev? I have seen both DJ names on TNT Disco Flyers."

ROGER K:"Yes, that's him. His real name is Shevin. I went to junior high school with this guy."

May 12th, 1978: DJ Shevin & DJ Timmy Tim (TNT Productions at that time) rocking at Edenwald Center

SIR NORIN RAD:"So DJ Timmy Tim and DJ Shevy Shev were the DJs of TNT Disco when you joined that crew?"

ROGER K:"Very true. Later on Shevy Shev I believe he went on to school, to further his education. So he didn't have time for DJing between his studies and, you know, we would always have to party late and we would travel and we didn't have people to carry our speakers. So not only were we MCs, we were sort of  government mules. We had to help with the speakers on and off the van, set them up and so we learnt those things. Shevy Shev wanted to pursue his further education so his time was limited. Yes, they were our first DJs until later when DJ Shevy Shev left DJ Gary G had gotten a sort of an audition and he ripped it up and he became our DJ along with DJ Timmy Tim."

SIR NORIN RAD:"And Gary G was Timmy Tim's record boy before that, correct?"

ROGER K:"You really did your homework! Yes he was, he was Timmy Tim's record boy!  And as a matter of fact had it not been for DJ Gary G I wouldn't have become a part of TNT Disco. Gary G had heard me because he lived in a building that was connected to mine and we were also childhood friends.We grew up together. So I knew that he DJed and that he was the record boy of DJ Timmy Tim. He heard me one time as he was practicing in his house. He said, "I'm gonna DJ for TNT! Watch, watch! One day I'm gonna replace Timmy Tim!" I said, "Maybe you will, maybe you won't." I wasn't even a MC at that time really. I started...without a mic..I started MCing and he heard my voice and he was like, "Roger K, your voice!!!" because as I said back then the voice was very important because it drew the people to you. Back then you could understand what we said unlike today where you cannot understand what many rappers are saying... for whatever reason. At that time you wanted to hear the person's rhymes but also the voice. Gary G said, "Man, listen! I'm gonna tell Tommy Tom about you!" So they were needing another MC and Tommy Tom lived directly across the street from me in one of the private houses and I went over there one day and I MCed and when I started to MC I saw them clapping their hands, dancing, saying, "Oh, my!" This and that!  Just from the sound of the  voice because a lot of the voices back then were deep like bass but when I would come on I'd be like,"Yes, yes y'all! And to the beat y'all! And you don't stop! You keep on!!!" (uses a higher pitched voice) They was like,"Uuuh!" and I didn't even start rhyming but the sound of the voice and the octave of the voice moved them. So Tommy Tom said, "Yo, you come back tomorrow!" And then I rocked at my first jam with them, from then on I became part of the TNT Disco Crew!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"So Tommy Tom was your manager?"

ROGER K:"He was the manager, he was the one who sort of got our equipment."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the other two MCs of the Jazzy 3?"

ROGER K:"Kid Ice and Gangster Bee."

SIR NORIN RAD:"When did they join the T.N.T Disco Crew?"

ROGER K:"Well, Kid Ice was before me and Gangster B had actually probably joined TNT Disco maybe three to six months before me."

SIR NORIN RAD:"In which year were the Jazzy 3 MCs added to the T.N.T. Disco Crew?"

ROGER K:"Well, we started in 1979 and continued into the early 1980s but the DJs of the TNT Disco Crew had started well before that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have been told that many DJs in the Northeast Bronx initially started out as Disco DJs and then later on adapted to the Hiphop style of DJing as it had been created by Kool DJ Herc and as it was taken to the next level by Grandmaster Flash and others. Does that also apply to the DJs of the T.N.T. Disco Crew?"

ROGER K:"I would say it applies to the T.N.T. Disco Crew but we refused to change our name because disco was the thing that started it. You know when you have a strong foundation and then you build upon that you don't wanna toss away your foundation because the rest of it will fall. So although the disco style of DJing started being pushed in the back there would be many times when we would mix in soul music and made it into something that we would call Hiphop music today. The records were records, there was no such thing as rap records at the time. There was not even one rap record made!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"When people nowadays talk about Hiphop music I often ask them, "What exactly do you mean by that?" because without the great music genres of Funk, Soul, Jazz, Rock etc. the DJs back then would have had no source to draw their beats from to rock for the B-Boys and then for the MCs. There is no Hiphop music independent of those aforementioned  music genres and the beats to be found therein."

ROGER K:"Yes, and to expand on that thought, brother Norin, look at Aerosmith's "Walk This Way"! We were playing that in the 1970ies looong before Run-D.M.C. had ever heard of it and there was a group called Kraftwerk.....I'll never forget....we used to love to rock over this record..it was called "Transeurope Express" (hums the melody of this song).  And we would just rock!!!!! Once we heard it we got goose bumps. We were almost fighting for the mic! "Let me rock to this!" There was no such thing as Hiphop records! We were taking things from James Brown, we were taking things from all different genres and made them Hiphop."
 
SIR NORIN RAD:"Even that B-Boy anthem "The Mexican" by Babe Ruth is basically a rock song."

ROGER K:"Are you kidding me? (laughs) Yes it is! And we used to love to rock over that! I mean the funky part of any song no matter what genre it was from, no matter who made it...it's not a discriminatory thing. That's what I love about music it transcends ethnicity, it transcends  age, it transcends gender...it's a universal language and when you find something like that which can connect people and draw people together how can it not be good, my brother?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would the rehearsals of the Jazzy 3 MCs go down and where would they take place?"

ROGER K:"We would go of course to Tommy Tom's house as I said he lived across the street  from me, directly across from the housing projects and we would have a certain time and we would meet there three times a week. If you were not there you would be fined because we would get paid for all the shows that we did. So if you didn't show up you would get fined because he knew how important it was to rehearse.  So we would go there and bounce rhymes off of each other and we'd ask each other, "How does this sound when we rock on this?" Then we'd be like, "Let's start doing some routines!" and we would say,"Look at this move!" Look at that move!" 'cause you gotta remember now not only are we MCing, we're also trying to take the attention away from the B-Boys because the B-Boys was there before we started MCing. So the  people would form around the B-Boys. Now they would come and wanna listen to us as soon as we started dancing and as we started pointing out the crowd and said something like,"Yo, Bernie Bee is in the house! Koolin' out! Check, check him out!" People would hear their names and they would say,"Uh, that's me!" and they'd feel pride. And so we formed our routines and they were simple routines, you know? It was just something that was gelling together but we would always practice three times a week. We couldn't wait for the next jam to come! We couldn't wait because we wanted to try these new routines. Then we had battles against other DJs and MCs and we took first place so many times! God bless Tommy Tom, he had most of our trophies...I don't know where they are. We won 6-foot-trophies, 5-foot-trophies...most of the times we took first place, a couple of times we took second. We really flourished! As I said had certain things not occured which I don't know specifically what they were...we could have made it really far but it began with the death of Tommy Tom..once he had passed away.. being that he was our manager..things started to become loose. He was a strong link to us and then when his link was severed then the crew became preoccupied with other things 'cause they saw that the ship was not going to sail as well as it would and we went our separate ways."     

August 24th, 1979: TNT Disco competes in a DJ/MC battle at the legendary Webster P.A.L.

SIR NORIN RAD:"So rehearsing three times a week was an integral part of your life back then?"

ROGER K:"Oh yes!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"How long did one rehearsal last?"

ROGER K:"It was so funny. We may say that we gonna rehearse for three or four hours but once we got that music in our soul and once we got together and once we started rocking and started creating sometimes these rehearsals would last five, six, seven hours. Tommy Tom's mother would say,"Listen! It's getting late! We do have neighbours! You gotta cut that off!" But the neighbours were outside rocking to our music, they didn't want us to stop. (laughs) We may originally wanted to do a three hour rehearsal but we couldn't really put a time on it 'cause once we got into it.....you know, time always passes very fast when you're having fun and we had fun!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was there a DJ with you when you did these rehearsals?"

ROGER K:"Of course! DJ Shevy Shev and DJ Timmy Tim they had to be there otherwise they would be fined just like we would be fined. When it was rehearsal time you had better been there! You're part of the crew, you better be there! This is rehearsal for us. There is nobody that is going to stand in for us when we get to have our jam, when we have to rock the mic or rock the turntables. We have to do that! If we have to do that we have to practice to do that! And you know, the only way you get better is by repeating something over and over again. Practice makes perfect and we were damn near perfect in my opinion."

SIR NORIN RAD:"True original MCing also involved how you looked and how you presented yourself when you were rocking the mic, didn't it?"

ROGER K:"Yes, that was very important! It was very important to dress fly and we didn't have to have matching outfits at the time, you know? We just dressed fly. Our personality shone through when we had our Lees on, the bell-bottom Lees with the Pro-Keds 69ers or the Pumas, when we wore knit shirts or mocknecks. It was very important to look good because first of all we were trying to look good for ourselves but we were also impressing the people, especially the ladies. The guys were checking out our gear as well. Then our choreographies were also real nice. So it was like a show. Everybody didn't have money to go out, you know? But you could go to the park or you could go and spend 2$ and come to the gym and have a good time. It was a party! I'll never forget..it was 2$, 3,50$ and to look at the prices to enter a club today is ridiculous. You don't even get half the entertainment that we gave you!!!! We gave you a show!!!  It was almost like coming to a concert. As I said you paid 2$ or 3,50$ or you would pay nothing. You would go to the park and you would see two or three DJs perform with their MCs and everything. It was so nice you didn't want to leave. Even when we were packing up we still had to leave one turntable playing!!! Just so that they let us pack up! And then we would say something like, "Okay we thank you for coming out everybody! We love y'all!" They would scream and they would not want to leave. They would not want to leave! It was amazing!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the Jazzy 3 MCs also have such routines like the Funky 4 or the Cold Crush 4 had which featured the melodies of popular songs?"

ROGER K:"Yes, of course! We even made up our own melodies. I wish that I had MC Kid Ice and MC Gangster Bee with us. I mean we would take popular melodies, have variations of popular melodies and there was one where the DJ would hold the record and in the beginning we'd sing, "This T-N-T and we're the Jazzy Three and another one of us who got the best cuts is DJ Gary G!!!!!!! So come on everybody and put your hands up in the air and come to the front and do us a favor so we know that you care!!!! T-N-T we are the best y'all!!! I can't believe I remember that."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn! You have an incredibly nice voice I must say!"

ROGER K:"And we made that up!!! We made that up!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please describe which specific role each MC of the Jazzy 3 had back then within your MC squad?"

ROGER K:"I would ultimately say that Kid Ice had the most advanced rap style. He was very intense with the words and his creativity. Kid Ice was unmatched when it came to having rhymes. I mean he had books and books full of rhymes! He had so many rhymes he would even say, "Roger K I wrote this rhyme but it don't sound good with me. This would be perfect for your voice!" So Kid Ice with the words and everything was nice. He was the man!  They would give me rhymes because they knew I had a voice and they saw that the crowd liked my voice. Certain rhymes that I came up with Kid Ice would tweak.  He would say, "Do it this way, Roger K!"And then I would and it would be successful. Gangster Bee would be the one who would  hype up the crowd,"Come on, y'all!!!! Put your hands up! Come on y'all, let's go!!!!" And he also had his own rap style and he was good but he was the one who would hype up the crowd, "Come on y'all! Roger K is in the house!" Then I would come on and it was weird because I remember coming on and I was always nervous, no matter how many times we performed I was always nervous and then when I would come on after the first couple of words I would hear the crowd screaming and that just hyped me up. Then I was on! I was nervous no more. Initially, you're getting ready. Like,"Come on!" You're hearing your compadres, your co-rockers rock the mic and you're hearing the crowd rocking.... happy to hear them. So you're wondering in the background,  "God! I'm up next!" You know? And then when you get on and they say,"Yo Roger K! Don't stop! Just put on your mic when you ready to rock!" Then I would get on and the crowd would go crazy. I just instantly lost my nervousness cause I was over the question, "Am I gonna please these people? Am I gonna give them what they want?" So yeah, Kid Ice was the one with the rhymes, Gangster Bee was definetely our hype man like Flavor Flav but he also rhymed, I had the outstanding voice and then our performances just made it come to a paramount."

April 3rd, 1980: T.N.T. Disco is rocking at the legendary T-Connection in the Bronx along with the Brothers Disco and DJ Sinbad & Kool Kyle The Starchild 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was the DJ that was playing the beats for you when you were performing as the Jazzy 3? I have noticed that from 1980 onwards it's mainly DJ Gary G who is listed on these original flyers with you."

ROGER K:"That's correct because as I said DJ Shevy Shev had gone back to school so he didn't have much time but he was never dismissed from the crew. Whenever he would show up we would want him to get on. As time went on he left New York for a little bit to further his studies and then it was just DJ Timmy Tim and DJ Gary G and Gary G became better than Timmy Tim. He just became better. I mean practice makes perfect. Timmy Tim was a wonderful DJ but he left practice. Gary G was hungry, he wanted it he would practice all the time...no matter what it was he would practice. So when I came by his window and I'd hear him practice when I'd be coming home from work...part time job or whatever...I would run up the stairs and get on the mic. We had crowds forming downstairs underneath his window! They would  approach us later on, "Yo, we heard you practice!!" This and that!! "What was that rhyme that you said about Adam and Eve???" So we were like, "Wow, they were really listening!" But Gary G was hungry and when you're hungry you gonna eat. So he took over! Excellent DJ!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your Top 5 Beats from back then?"

ROGER K:"Oh Top 5...I know that "Apache" (by the Incredible Bongo Band) is definetely one. "Frisco Disco" by Eastside Connection is two. "Transeurope Express" by Kraftwerk is three. Number four is that song "Paradise is very nice....." ("Shangri La" by La Pregunta). To this day if I hear them I don't even care if there's a mic next to me I gonna rock!!! Number five is "Good Times" (by Chic) Ohh!!! You put on "Good Times" and if somebody is on the mic I'm gonna take it from him!" 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the main stomping ground of The T.N.T. Disco Crew?"

ROGER K:"Every part of Edenwald especially because when we rocked in the centers.....the Edenwald Center and Baychester Center we would have to share whatever we brought in. And then it was a limited amount of space. So when we would rock there we would be doing it because we would be getting paid but it could only hold legally a certain amount of people. So I would say that the Edenwald Center and Baychester Center and the surrounding schools like John Philip Sousa Junior High School they were good as far as lucrativity, as far as getting paid but as far as me seeing the crowds of people.....cause it really wasn't about the money, it was about seeing the people run through the gates of the parks to see and hear us rock and come to the front of our ropes and look at us. It was the parks! For me it was the parks. I can't speak for Gangster Bee and Kid Ice but for me it was the parks. Of course I could use an extra dollar but for me that wasn't my satisfaction. My satisfaction was when we would be in the parks."

October 31st, 1980: The T.N.T. Disco is rocking at Sousa JHS 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Which parks in Edenwald would you rock at?"

ROGER K:"112 park near my elementary school...where I went to elementary school and of course graduated and there's a big baseball field out there and we would rock that park. Oh, another one was The Valley Park near Haffen pool. That's where DJ Breakout and them used to rock at as well."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have heard a lot about The Valley. Many legendary B-Boy and DJ/MC Battles took place there. How did these original DJ /MC battles go down back in the days? It was about showcasing your skills, wasn't it?"

ROGER K:"Yes, it was! It was about who made the crowd more enthused! We wouldn't talk about your mother, we wouldn't talk about your girl, we were talking about us, about our skills and the crowd. We would talk about , "We make the ladies jump and we can rock better than you!" It wasn't personal. It was about talent. In order to make myself look good I don't have to make you look bad or offend you. I just have to be the best person that I could be and that's how it was. It wasn't about trying to disrespect each other. The talent could prove who we are and where we come from."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the other legendary DJ/MC crews from the Northeast Bronx besides The Brothers Disco? Like The Touch Of Class Disco Crew, The P.T. Disco Crew, The Music Masters or The C.B. Crew?"

ROGER K:"Touch Of Class they were very cool. We loved all the crews that were doing what we did. We would go to see Tricky Tee's crew (The C.B. Crew) like whenever they booked Edenwald Center. We'd go and show them support and at the same time you wanted know what your competition was doing. That makes you better. If your competition is doing something that is making the crowd jump and has everybody rocking, you wanna know how you can bring your game up! So it's always good to go and listen to your competition but at the same time we loved these brothers! We came from the same areas! We came from the same hoods, you know? Tricky Tee and I went to elementary school together, junior high school together and then high school everybody went their separate way. That's my brother for life."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of place was Baychester Center?"

ROGER K:"It was small, it was sort of quiet. It was right across the street from Edenwald Projects. We couldn't book it as much because there were more Caucasian (white) people at the time, it was more conservative so we would have to end the party really early. Edenwald Projects was Edenwald Projects! You know, you would end the party maybe 3 o' clock in the morning, maybe 4 o'clock..that was the latest. Baychester Center..if we rented it out we had to start like 4, 5 o'clock in the afternoon and we would have to end the party at maybe 12 or 1 o'clock. Come on, we just started rocking at that time!! We were just getting warmed up!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you're saying that you and your crewmates were rocking for like 6,7 hours straight?"


ROGER K:"Of course!!! Of course we would! Listen, as many records are in that crate we gonna rock them! We wanted the people to have a good time! And when we were outside we wouldn't stop until the cops came by and told us to stop! We started setting up our equipment in the park around 5.30 or 6 o'clock...something like that...we sometimes wouldn't get out of that park before 3 or 4 O'clock in the morning. The cops would come around and they would look if the crowd would be getting too big or if some people started to act crazy because sometimes people would be like, "Yo, you looking at my girl?????" and then somebody might pull out a gun...BLOW!!....one gunshot... people would be getting trampled because the park was so crowded. So that's why the cops would tell us, "Listen, you have to stop now before it's getting crazy!" But we rocked...6 hours is nothing....are you kidding me?? That's why I said you don't go to concerts today for 6 hours! That's almost like a full-time job!!! It would come to the point where we had to freestyle....usually we would write all of our rhymes and we wouldn't be reading them but we had them committed to memory. So we would be rocking and I would go literally through maybe two or three of my entire rhyme books and then we just had to freestyle. We would look into the crowd and we had to come off the top of our head. To us it was like a job!! We wanted to deliver a good time to the people that came to see us and not one person is going to leave there unsatisfied! Not one person!!"


SIR NORIN RAD:"That's really amazing!!"

ROGER K:"Yeah, because nowadays,you know, a lot of them are just here for the dollar. They made their records, they made their money so some of them don't even want to perform for an hour. Nah man, it wasn't about that!!! Cause we was partying with the crowd, we stayed there until we were told to leave and that was never unless it was by the police. To this day I still feel the same way. I went to a Chris Brown concert. Yes, Chris Brown rocked the concert, yes he did!  But he had like 4, 5 other performers with him and the concert was maybe 3 hours. I paid like 200 $ and change for the ticket and the concert was like 3 hours. Back then the people paid almost nothing and we rocked for six to seven hours!" 

February 27th, 1981: The T.N.T. Disco Crew is rocking at the legendary T-Connection along with DJ Jazzy Jay & The Jazzy Five

 

                                       Interview with MC Tricky Tee (The C.B. Crew /The Devastating Four) 


                                                                    

Tricky Tee (The C.B. Crew / The Devastating Four)

                                          conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Boogie Down Bronx are you originally?"

TRICKY TEE:"Okay, I'm from the northeast part of the Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"You're from what is known as Edenwald Projects, is that correct?" 

TRICKY TEE:"Yes, born and raised in Edenwald Projects....Northeast Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your very first encounter with Hiphop? Where and when did that take place?"

TRICKY TEE:"It took place in 1978. I used to go to the park jams of around my way. I used to listen to DJ Breakout & The Funky 4 MCs."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So you caught the bug at one of those Brothers Disco parties?"

TRICKY TEE:"Absolutely, yes."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please elaborate on what exactly made you fall in love with Hiphop? What was it? Was it the music, the vibe at the park jam, the girls...?"

TRICKY TEE:"I think it was a combination of everything. It was the music, it was the impact of the DJs spinning (beats), the coordination of the MCs rhyming and just overall....just bringing people together to have a good time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of beats intrigued you at those parties?"

TRICKY TEE:" I used to really like to listen to KK Rockwell a lot and the way he used to rhyme over beats like Edwin Starr ("I Just Wanna Do My Thing"), "Livin' It Up" (by Bell & James), "Indiscreet" (by DC LaRue)....some new breakbeats that DJ Breakout used to play."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, and these parties used to take place in that area around Edenwald Projects?"

TRICKY TEE:"Yes, the Northeast Bronx. Say 229th Laconia Avenue, Boston Road, Boston Secor, Co-Op City, The Valley...that was considered the Northeast Bronx. The Brothers Disco used to actually jam in my center back in the days.....Edenwald Center....and then in the summer time they would be in the big park in Edenwald."

April 15th, 1978: The Brothers Disco are rocking at the Edenwald Center

SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please describe Edenwald Center? I'm asking this question because I deem it important that the memory of all these legendary jam spots will be kept alive."

TRICKY TEE:" Well, the Edenwald Center was a small center. The capacity was probably....you could fit about 80-100 people in there. It was a small center, it wasn't a gym. It was utilized very well."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was there a stage in that center or would the DJs set up their equipment on the floor?"

TRICKY TEE:"Yeah, they would set up on the floor. It was no stage, it was totally different from Bronx River Center. Bronx River Center was basically a gym with a stage. For those out there that don't know Bronx River Center was the place where DJ Afrika Bambaataa used to throw his parties."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Was there any kind of security at those parties in Edenwald Center and how much was it to get in?"

TRICKY TEE:"Well, the security was Brothers Disco's security and at the time they would charge the girls 3$ and the guys 5$ to get in.....somewhere around there."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. Now who inspired you to pick up the microphone and become a MC? You said that KK Rockwell really impressed you when he was rocking on the mic....."

TRICKY TEE:"Absolutely, it was him and Rahiem. I met Rahiem before he was even down with the Funky 4....so I used to listen to Rahiem rhyming. Eventually he got put on to the Funky Four, then of course later on he moved on to the Furious Five. I saw the progression of him from day one. KK Rockwell was a member of the Funky Four from day one. But yeah, I was very impressed by listening to him and Rahiem back in the days."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What exactly was it that intrigued when you saw them perform?"

TRICKY TEE:"They were very tight with their routines! Jazzy Dee who was actually DJ Breakout's brother he was the one who actually used to rock their echo chamber. It was just so intriguing to me! Jazzy Dee would know all their rhymes and he would know where to put the echo to their rhymes. It would just sound so phenomenal!!!!! If you ever listened to Sha Rock (first female MC in Hiphop and member of the Funky Four).....forget it! It was just phenomenal, phenomenal!!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Ok, so please describe the process from being impressed by what KK Rockwell and Rahiem and the rest of the Funky 4 did to starting MCing yourself."

TRICKY TEE:"Well, originally I was a member of the Brothers Disco. I was pretty much helping out as a staff member of their crew. Here's a funny story.....there was a another crew called TNT Disco. One day in the big park up in Edenwald TNT Disco had a blockparty and I just happened to get on the mic and I just started to say my rhymes, trying to perfect my craft. I was just helping out TNT Disco or whatever and I guess Breakout caught wind that I was rapping with TNT Disco and they (Brothers Disco) did a party at Edenwald Center and they fired me (laughs)!!!!!  They told me, "You gotta go!" (laughs)  So I wasn't part of Brothers Disco anymore and that kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. So on that day I decided that I would formulate my own crew which was the C.B. Crew from DJ Love Squigg."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What's your explanation for Brothers Disco firing you back then?"

TRICKY TEE:"Nowadays they call it violation. So basically I violated being down with one crew and rocking for another but, you know, at that time I was just perfecting my craft. So I wasn't really good enough to tell Breakout to give me a shot to rock with them. They already had their crew. So it was only right for me to get my name going and to formulate something that I wanted to do. It was a risk that I took and you know sometimes when you take a risk the rewards don't come right away."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what exactly was your job as a staff member of the Brothers Disco?"

TRICKY TEE:"I would stand behind the ropes and make sure that the people don't come behind the ropes. Helping out with the crates and stuff like that because at the time vinyl was very popular so all the DJs had crates of records and they'd like to have a crew to help out, you know? So that's pretty much what a staff member would do."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you also wear one of those famous Brothers Disco shirts?"

TRICKY TEE:"Yeah, actually I had a white sweatshirt with "THE BROTHERS DISCO" on the front and "TRICKY TEE" in the back which they took from me due to the fact that I was rapping with TNT Disco (laughs)."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Since you've said that you were perfecting your craft when you were rocking on the set of  TNT Disco I guess you had already begun to write your own rhymes before that, right?"

TRICKY TEE:"Yeah, I had already started playing around with words and metaphors....putting things together like any other MC would do."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Ok, so then the next step for you was creating your crew.....the C.B. Crew. Could you please explain what this abreviation stands for?"

TRICKY TEE:" C. B. stands for "City Boy". City Boy was a guy from Mount Vernon, New York who actually Love Squigg joined forces with because of the fact that Richie Livingstone  owned the equipment which we called The Earthquake. You see, DJ Breakout and DJ Baron had this incredible system called The Sasquatch and we as The C.B. Crew had a system called The Earthquake which was run by Richie Livingstone. Because, you know, soundsystems were big in the 1970ies / early 1980ies. If you had a big system you were saying something....like Kool Herc, you know? Yeah, with the C.B. Crew.... we started with this guy City Boy and City Boy had a DJ named Turtle Dove. So we started with Love Squigg, City Boy and Turtle Dove. At the time when I was rapping I was from the south side of Edenwald and I linked up with MC Malibu......may he rest in peace....he was from the north side. What happened was..me, Squigg, Rob Ski and Harry O..we all went to the same high school together. We went to DeWitt Clinton High School in the Bronx and they were a year ahead of me and me and Malibu were of the same age. So they were a year ahead of us...Rob Ski and Harry O were in the 10th grade and let's say me and Malibu we were in the 9th grade. In any event Love Squigg asked Harry O and Rob Ski if they were interested in forming a crew. At the time me and Harry O used to play football together in high school. The buzz with Malibu was that they were talking about this guy called Malibu from the north side of Edenwald and so Love Squigg went there and asked him if he wanted to join our crew. Malibu was very interested in joining us and so we formed "DJ Love Squigg & The Devastating Four" which by the way I came up with that name."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So in the very beginning of the C.B. Crew you also had a DJ by the name of City Boy?"

TRICKY TEE:"Yes, City Boy!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"So what happened to him? Did he leave your crew?"

TRICKY TEE:"I forgot....I left out DJ Rob The Gold....so we had DJ Love Squigg, DJ City Boy, DJ Turtle Dove and DJ Rob The Gold. City Boy wasn't that nice as a DJ but he actually lead us to Richie Livingstone and it kinda fit. As you would say..when we started...we originally started to perfect our craft in Mount Vernon, New York which at the time it was only three Hip Hop groups there. It was us (The C.B. Crew), The Collins Brothers, and Grandmixer D.St....."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Infinity..."

TRICKY TEE:"Yeah, Grandmixer D.St & The Infinity Four. Right."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So is it accurate to say that Mount Vernon was the first stomping ground of the C.B. Crew?"

TRICKY TEE:"Yes, we would do shows in various locations in Mount Vernon. Like The Rodbender's.....The Rodbender's was a popular spot back in the days in Mount Vernon. We also did the Go Center and a few other spots I can't remember at this time."

SIR NORIN RAD:"I got a question regarding Edenwald Projects......Edenwald by the way is German word which means "Forest of Paradise"....You've mentioned that there was a north side and a south side of Edenwald. Could you please elaborate on that?"

TRICKY TEE:"Edenwald is one of the biggest Housing Development Projects in New York City. It covers...how many blocks? Let me see....it covers about seven blocks. The north and south of Edenwald Pojects is divided by East 229th street. Each side had their sense of pride."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So to make to sure that I have understood you correctly you said that you and the other three MCs of The Devastating Four all went to the same high school, right?"

TRICKY TEE:"Two other members..which was Rob Ski and Harry O. Malibu went to Evander High School. But we knew each other from the projects....just by reputation."


SIR NORIN RAD:"From where did you know DJ Love Squigg?"

TRICKY TEE:"Well, Love Squigg lived across the building from me and he was more or less like a big brother to me.  So we would always hang out together, I would always come by his house or whatever. And he also went to DeWitt Clinton. He was the oldest out of all of us."

The legendary DJ Love Squigg (The C.B. Crew)

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you ever consider joining the ranks of TNT Disco to rock together with Roger K, Gangster B and Kid Ice? I mean you stated that your first public performance on the mic happened on the set of TNT Disco....."

TRICKY TEE:"No, because it was really short breathed when I joined TNT Disco. Roger K, Gangster B and Kid Ice they all actually formed their own MC group which was called The Jazzy Three. At the time I was so focussed on forming my group that I didn't stay long in TNT."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, so now you're up there in Money Earnin' Mount Vernon doing your thing......"

TRICKY TEE:"Yes Money Earnin' Mount Vernon is where we actually started to put our shows together, that's where we started perfecting our craft real heavy.........We were getting notoriety like you wouldn't believe up in Westchester County at that time."  

SIR NORIN RAD:"Yes, and not only that because from what I have noticed by looking at those original flyers your crew also managed to make it to the legendary T-Connection and you performed there on a regular basis. For those out there in Europe that don't know about the T-Connection only the best DJ / MC Crews were allowed to rock there."

TRICKY TEE:"That's absolutely correct!!! And how that happened with us was... we had gained so much notoriety in Mount Vernon and then we started doing parties in Edenwald.like outside..... Kool Herc took a liking in us. Kool Herc found out about us!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Oh shit!"

TRICKY TEE:"Kool Herc literally rode his bicycle to Edenwald cause he wanted to know who we were. So when he found out who we were he was like,"I want you guys to perform at the T-Connection!" And Kool Herc gave us our first official break at the T-Connection."

December 23rd 1979: The C.B. Crew is rocking at the legendary T-Connection along with Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force Note: The C.B. Crew is billed as Westchester's No.1

SIR NORIN RAD:"So when did the C.B. Crew actually form?"

TRICKY TEE:"1978, 1979 would be the precise years when we formed as a unit."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So how were you received by the Bronx crowd at the T-Connection?"

TRICKY TEE:"Yeah, see we were pretty good. I tell you like this and I'm gonna state this on the record. If we didn't break up in terms of Harry O and Rob Ski going to college......we would be very elite. I mean we were doing routines that you wouldn't believe. Even Cold Crush knew what we were doing...Fantastic Five... we had a battle with The Fantastic Five at that time....The Furious Five knew who we were back then. I mean we were up and coming and we was ready !!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Who was the captain of the MC squad of the C.B. Crew.....the Devastating Four?"

TRICKY TEE:"That's a good question. I would give it to Rob Ski 'cause Rob Ski came up with the routines. I came up with pretty much passing the mic and Malibu and Harry O were lyrical monsters. I mean it all came together! It all came together!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"From which sources would you draw your inspiration for routines?"

TRICKY TEE:"We would take our routines off things like Earth Wind & Fire....We used to do things like (starts singing "Brazilian Rhyme" by Earth, Wind & Fire) and then we'd go "Here come The Four! Here come The Four! Everybody, everybody, here come The Four!" and then we'd go into a routine off of "You make me feel like dancing" (by Leo Sayer) We used to kill'em!! We used to kill'em!(laughs) We used to take like early 70s songs and melodies and used to incorporate our rhymes into them."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you say that all those legendary funk & soul groups like The Temptations, The Jackson Five etc. were a major influence on you original MCs? Through their whole showmanship?"

TRICKY TEE:"Absolutely! Absolutely! That's where we drew our inspiration from. You have to give it to the Furious Five because their routines were very tight. They didn't play.  Melle Mel and them, they didn't play around, man! When they got on the stage to perform, they performed!!! Same thing with the Funky Four, same thing with the Fantastic Five...When you hit that stage you have to be ready to go off, man!! There's no half stepping when it comes to this situation! It really wasn't...there was no half-stepping because you'd get booed."

May 4th, 1980: The C.B. Crew performs at the legendary T-Connection

SIR NORIN RAD:"I have said that many times but it still doesn't cease to amaze me how these real MCs back in your era built up a reputation for themselves through hard work and talent."

TRICKY TEE:"Right. We put in our blood, sweat and tears! We practiced our routines on top of Love Squigg's building. Love Squigg's building was 14 stories high. We'd be on the roof practicing. We had our little boom box with the music and we'd practice our routines, man! Time in, time out! Everybody would meet up after school, then we'd meet up at Squigg's house and then we'd go up to the roof and do what we got to do. Those were the days, man!!!!! I'm actually very blessed to be a part of that." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also incorporate steps into your stage show?"

TRICKY TEE:"Yes, we incorporated different steps and you know just different ways to present ourselves on the mic."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How would you dress back then? I mean obviously the gear was of high importance back then... "
  
TRICKY TEE:"Yeah! Well, back then in the late 1970ies/ early 180ies it wasn't about gold chains. We wasn't really into gold chains at that time. The way you would dress fly was you would wear a nice clean pair of sneakers, nice jeans, you would rock a mockneck shirt, you would have like maybe a baseball cap. At that time we used to have afros or whatever.  You know, you would have to have a fresh haircut! Stuff like that! That's what "fresh" was back then, what you would wear as a fresh MC." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What about that more dapper style...wearing Playboys, British Walkers, Overlaps, Suede Front Sweaters.....would you dress up like that as well?"

TRICKY TEE:"Oh, absolutely! There was a historical store in the South Bronx called Jew Man's. Jew Man's is where everybody went to get their clothes. Everybody! All the guys would go to Jew Man's to get their clothes! He would have the freshest Teardrops, Overlaps, Ice Cube Pants...At the time everybody would rock Lee Jeans. Adidas, fresh Adidas! Jew Man's was like the epicenter of where you could go to get your clothes."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you make sure that no stick up kids stepped up to you over there?"

TRICKY TEE:"Well, the thing was this....you know, we had a crew so we would all move together. Back then we all used to work for Summer Youth Program, so everybody knew when everybody got paid. So you would go pick up your check and the stick-up kids knew that you had your money and that you would go down to Jew Man's to get your clothes. Fortunately with me.. and all of us... we were affiliated with the Zulu Nation and affiliated with the scene Uptown. So when we used to go downtown we used to make sure that we were good. We didn't have to go through that situation where we got stuck up. We were ghetto celebrities because we used to rap so that also kinda gave us a pass. We grew up with a lot of stick up kids and I used to go to high school with a lot of stick up kids. Pretty much a lot of stick up kids went to DeWitt Clinton so if I see them in the streets then they knew who I was 'cause I used to play football back then as well. But yeah, stick up kids were very popular back then... back in the late 1970s / early 1980s."
 
SIR NORIN RAD:"Since you mentioned the Zulu Nation could you please describe how you became members of that organization?"

TRICKY TEE:"Well, once again through our reputation Bambaataa found out about us and being that we were from the Northeast Bronx he asked Love Squigg to form a Zulu Nation chapter up in the Northeast Bronx...which we were Chapter 11 of the Zulu Nation.  I believe we were one of the first chapters in the Northeast Bronx."

SIR NORIN RAD:"What did it mean to be a Zulu in the 1970s and early 1980s? Did you already have Zulu Beads back then?"

TRICKY TEE:"Absolutely, yes. Let's make it clear before there was the Zulu Nation in Bronx River it was the Black Spades. So once in the late 1970s when gangs started to die down that's where the music started to pick up and instead of fighting each other everybody came together and that exactly was Bambaataa's plan to bring the people together in peace. That's why he started the Zulu Nation."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So did you receive membership cards when you joined the Zulu Nation?"

TRICKY TEE:"No membership cards but you had to sign a book." 

SIR NORIN RAD:"What I find fascinating about some of those old Zulu Nation flyers is the fact that oftentimes more than 20 crews are being shouted out which all seem to have been affiliated with Bambaataa's organization. Like the Crazy 8 Zulus from Monroe, Cozy Corner Crew, Zulu Gestapos, City Boy Crew, Mac Dynasty Crew etc. It almost looks like an entire army..... "

TRICKY TEE:" Yeah, well Bam used to make sure that everybody would be acknowledged. So where Bronx River is located there are various projects that are in that vicinity. You have Bronx River, you have Trio, you have Bronxdale where the Black Spades originally started, you have Monroe which is right next to Bronxdale, you have Soundview Projects which is where Cozy Corner is and you have Throggs Neck that's where the Cosmic Force is from which is Ikey Cee, Ice Ice and all of them guys. So each project had their own crew but was also affiliated with the Zulu Nation. That's how Bam had made peace with everybody to make sure that everybody got along when he was throwing a party anywhere in those projects."

SIR NORIN RAD:"So I guess your crew would also perform at Bronx River Center?"

TRICKY TEE:"Oh absolutely, we performed so many times at Bronx River Center for the Zulu Nation Anniversary in November.....anytime Bam would have an event he would put us on the flyer. Bam's main MC crews were the Soul Sonic Force and the Cosmic Force. We were like extended family to that so he would allow us to perform along with Soul Sonic and Cosmic."

May 10th, 1980: The C.B. Crew is rocking at The Webster P.A.L. along  with Afrika Bambaata & The Cosmic Force and Kool Herc & The Herculords

SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your five favourite breakbeats to rhyme over?"

TRICKY TEE:"Starting with number five...let's see....(hums a melody)....damn, I forgot the name of that song. My fourth song would be "Music, Harmony and Rhythm" by Brooklyn Dreams. My third song that I would put in the mix would probably be "Apache" by The Incredible Bongo Band.My second song...old school breakbeat.. that I would rock to...would be "I Just Wanna Do My Thing" by Edwin Starr. And last but not least, my favourite Hip Hop beat that I always love to rap to is "Nautilus" by Bob James. I love that! I love that beat! It gives me goose bumps every time I hear it."

Bob James - Nautilus

SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your prefered method of writing rhymes back then?"

TRICKY TEE:"What I used to..I used to be in my house, in my room and I would just start writing and then I started perfecting the rhyme. Then when it was time for us to practice everybody would come with their new rhymes. And then, you know, everybody would be like, "Oh, man!!! That rhyme sounds nice!" So we would pile on all the rhymes that we wrote. When it came to the routines... like I said Rob Ski would be in charge of the routines..he would write all the routines and then we would go through the routines and just memorize our lines and then we would practice them until we didn't have to use the paper anymore. That's how we started perfecting our routine."    

SIR NORIN RAD:"What caused the end of the Devastating Four MCs?"

TRICKY TEE:"Well, like I said Rob Ski and Harry O went on to college and me and Malibu were still in New York. So that's pretty much how that went down. And once they had left for college everything pretty much came to a hold. Now me and Malibu tried to do it again with two other MCs. One MC was Robbie Rock...Robbie Rock and somebody else but it was never the same."

SIR NORIN RAD:"How did the original DJ/MC battles go down back in the late 1970s / in the early 1980s?"

TRICKY TEE:"It wasn't about cursing or talking about somebody's mom, or father or anything derogatory. It was about who had the better routines, the better rhymes. That's what that was. It was about showmanship. Who had the better showmanship? Who had the better dance steps? That's what we used to do back in the days in terms of battling."

SIR NORIN RAD:"Would like to give any shout outs at the end of this interview?"

TRICKY TEE:"Well, I wanna give a shout out to you!"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Thank you!"

TRICKY TEE:" Yeah, man! I enjoyed this interview. I hope you enjoyed it as well?"

SIR NORIN RAD:"Absolutely!"

TRICKY TEE:"Peace!"      

SIR NORIN RAD:"Peace!"