Interview with the original B-Girl Duesy (from Kool DJ Herc's parties)
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| Original B-Girl Duesy |
conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)
SIR NORIN RAD:"Where exactly were you born and raised?"
DUESY:"Okay, I was born and raised in the Bronx. I was raised up on University Avenue. 1610 University Avenue & 174th Street."
SIR NORIN RAD:"That's on the Westside of the Bronx, right?"
DUESY:"That's the Westside of the Bronx. Absolutely!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay. To what kind of music were you exposed in your parents' house as a young girl growing up?"
DUESY:"I have been dancing actually since I was 5 years old. I grew up with my mother listening to everything. My mother used to have us in the living room doing James Brown. Get up, get on down! We used to do James Brown, Aretha Franklin. We used to do the Jackson Five, The Four Tops....We were The Supremes. She made us do groups and we used to just dance in our living room. So we listened to Sly & The Family Stone...Oh my God, like I could just go on for days. We grew up on that."
SIR NORIN RAD:"So you basically grew up on that classic Soul and Funk music?"
DUESY:"Exactly! Exactly!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"I have been told that you have a sister called Nooney..."
DUESY:"Exactly! And me and Nooney we both used to dance, we both were B-Girls. Nooney didn't go as far as I went but she was definitely there! Keith & Kevin, Sasa, Trixie, Wallace Dee, Dancin' Doug...these were the names of the best dancers in our era and we knew them all. That girl named Gloria..... We just used to go to the parties and go off!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"By how many years are you and Nooney apart? Who's the older one?"
DUESY:"I'm the older sister. I'm older than Nooney by two years."
SIR NORIN RAD:"How did you find out about Kool DJ Herc and his parties?"
DUESY:"Okay, this is how we heard about Herc: We all lived in the same neighbourhood. Herc lived in 1520 Sedgwick Avenue, I lived at the hill on University Avenue, Coke La Rock lived on Shakespeare Avenue. We all went to the same schools..82, 104, Taft! Kool Herc used to eat out of my mother's kitchen. My mother used to make big hamburgers. She used to call them Mammy-Jammy Sandwiches. My mother used to feed him. My mother was the first one to give waistline parties for a quarter and your waist measured it. You know how it takes a village to raise a child? This is what was going on. Our parents were much more involved in this thing than most people could even imagine, you know what I'm saying?? Like if you mention Dottie (Duesy's mother) Kool Herc would just break down and cry, you know what I mean? We had a unity there! And Kool Herc's parties...everybody knew when Kool Herc was giving a party. He used to give out those... remember the little index cards? He used to pass them out! That's how the word got around in 82. We all used to go to 82's after school center, the recration center at night. So we all used to be in there. That's where the hang-out was....two nights a week, three night a week. Everybody was always together in 82 down the block. As I said they lived down the hill on Sedgwick Avenue, I lived on University Avenue. So we were all connected and Kool Herc's parties were like, "Kool Herc is giving a party today!" He started in his building, in his community center and it just went crazy!!!!! I started going to Kool Herc's parties when I was 14, 15."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I see. How long did you have to walk in order to reach Kool DJ Herc's building? 10 minutes?"
DUESY:"Yeah, ten minutes. It wasn't no walk at all because on our side of the Bronx you had a lot of steps that lead down to Herc's block because it was off the Major Deegan. The Major Deegan Expressway is one of our major highways. Kool Herc's building ran along the Major Deegan. North, coming up. There were steps that lead down and so all we had to do was go across University Avenue, go down the steps and walk down the block. It wasn't that far. Even if we went down Tremont Avenue and went around.....Sedgwick Avenue is right on the bottom of the hill."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Oh, so those are the steps that Trixie was telling me about in our interview!"
DUESY:"Yep, those are the steps! Walking down those steps would take you right in front of Kool Herc's building, right off the side of it!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"So you obviously attended those very early Kool DJ Herc parties which took place in that recreation room in 1520?"
DUESY:"Yes!!! Yes!!! (excited) Listen, those were the parties that made us!!! That's were it all began. It didn't begin in no clubs after he ( Herc) started running out. It became phenomenal there....in that rec room....and you only paid a quarter to get in. It was a lot of quarters that he was getting. Think about it.....a Frank and a soda. I mean the whole night would cost you maybe 1.50$ at that time."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the atmosphere at those early Kool Herc parties!"
DUESY:"Okay, let me just say this....going to Kool Herc parties....you couldn't wait, you couldn't sleep 'cause you knew everybody would be there 'cause that's where the meeting ground was. Everybody was there!!! The rush.....going to the party you'd scout out who's in there, you know what I'm saying? 'Cause that's when people from Manhattan started coming, trying to challenge us. Let me tell you it was amazing!!! People were like, "You going to Kool Herc's?" "Yeah." "Ok, I'll be there by 9." The parties lasted from maybe 8 to 12:30, 1 o'clock.. in the rec center. It was....let me try to put it in words....when I came home from a Herc party I couldn't wait for the next one 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE LIVED FOR!!!! Going to a Kool Herc party??? Listen, it got so phenomenal people were coming from everywhere!!! And we as party people and dancers we forced Herc to go bigger! We forced Herc to go bigger because he couldn't hold everybody. And the records Herc was playing were just so........(Duesy starts singing James Brown's "Get Up, Get Into It, Get Involved!!!!") When certain records were played, certain dancers were called out 'cause Herc and them knew that they would tear that record up!!!! Like Trixie was good with that record!! Oh my God!!!!!! It was certain records like, "Oh Duesy, that's you!!!" I got busy! That drop that mic thing before it came up......I was dropping it.... taking it to their face...BOOOM!!!!....and I'd be walking away. I'd leave them standing there. They wouldn't know what had just happened to them. They're waiting and I'm gone already. With me it was always a sharp beginning and a smooth ending. That was my style! We used to go to different parties. Trixie, Wallace Dee, Dancin' Doug....all of us...and there was always a circle around us. We always drew a circle!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"It seems to me that you were very self-confident, utterly fearless. Like you would always jump into the circle and go off. Is that a correct assertion to make?"
DUESY:"No, that's something very true to say because I went in there ready to challenge other dancers. I went in there! After a while you got tired of always challenging the same person so you'd always scout out somebody. And you know once you'd start dancing then you would see where they was going and how they tried to do it and you would just go in and you'd just end it. See, you gotta pick your prey. You gotta know who you're dancing with and you gotta know what you're doing and you gotta know how to stop it, bring it back and turn it around! And listen we used to go to church parties because Kool Herc started to give church parties on Featherbed Lane. Like I said we forced Herc to go bigger 'cause he couldn't hold nobody else in that community center."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Hold up! You're saying that Herc also did parties on Featherbed Lane?"
DUESY:"Yes. Featherbed Lane......there was a church and they used to have a room where Herc was throwing church parties there. Block parties! Right down the block from his house there was a park there and we used to do block parties right there! Absolutely!"
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| Presbyterian Church Featherbed Lane |
SIR NORIN RAD:"What was it like to hear Coke La Rock on the microphone back then?"
DUESY:"Oh, let me tell you something! It started there. (Duesy starts to imitate Coke La Herc), "Herc! Herc! Herc!! Rock!!!! Rock!!!! Rock!!! Let's go!!!" And sometimes you would think they were the record and it was just them speaking on the mic! And that's what made it phenomenal. Yeah!! Yeah!!! Yeah!! And that's what kept us hyped. They were like our hype men and they were from our neighbourhood and they were with us, you know what I'm saying? They would always hype us up and call us out,"Go Trixie!!!" Let me tell you something, to have lived those days is to appreciate those days!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Listening to you talking about those days really makes me smile."
DUESY:"I'm telling you! And I was there from the beginning, from the very beginning 'cause I am actually older than Keith and Kevin and a lot of them....believe it or not."
SIR NORIN RAD:"So you must have also witnessed those legendary battles between Trixie and his cousin Wallace Dee (RIP)......"
DUESY:"What?!??? What???? (starts laughing) I gotta laugh. Of course I was there. All you had to do was play one of those records.....one of those James Brown records and Trixie would go bananas on it!!! He used to jump up, hit it.....BAM!!! That's what made it so phenomenal for us 'cause Herc and Coke....they always knew which records would make us move. They knew which record to put on to make us react!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"I once heard Kool Herc stating in an interview that he would always tell his crowd to make sure that they dressed splivvy when they intended to come to his parties...."
DUESY:"Getting dressed up...yeah."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What do you remember about that whole dressing game at Herc's parties?"
DUESY:"Like you had to come in there cute, you know what I'm saying? And that was called splivvy. Okay, let's be clear when Herc did get out of the rec center....in the rec center we would wear sneakers....when he got to the club you couldn't wear sneakers when he was playing. There you had to come dressed, you had to come cute. Like when he first started in 1520....no, we was wearing dungarees and sneakers and this, that and the other...'cause that's when we was truly breakdancing.....posing, jumping on the floor, spinning, jumping back up. When we forced him to go out of there to go bigger 'cause now more people were coming it changed a little bit of the venue but not that much. We would still get on the floor and tear it up."
SIR NORIN RAD:"When I interviewed Trixie, Wallace Dee, Dancing Doug, Sasa, James Bond etc. they all told me what it meant to dress up splivvy from a man's perspective. Like wearing Italian Knits, Alpaca Sweaters, Mocknecks, Cortefiels and all that good shit......"
DUESY:"Yeah, the Suede Fronts, the Playboys.......and the hats, oh yeah!!! They used to come clean like that, yeah. After we got out of 1520 everybody was coming cute."
SIR NORIN RAD:"So what did the B-Girls wear back then? You already mentioned sneakers and dungarees. What kind sneakers did you wear? Pro-Keds?"
DUESY:"Pro-Keds, Cons.....those were like the real sneakers. Adidas was out at that time but not Shelltops. That Shelltop thing came out after. I keep trying to explain that to somebody. But it was basically Pro-Keds and Converse. Stuff like that.....That's when we used to wear bellbottom Lees. Yes! And we always used to have on nice blouses, nice pants."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Some of the blouses that were worn back then had these large collars, right?"
DUESY:"Yeah, some of them had the large collars. And then we would be waring hot pants to boots."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I was told that during the early 70s Marshmellow shoes were quite popular in the Bronx and Harlem. Do you recall them?"
DUESY:"I had a pair!!! (excited) I had pair of lightblue Marshmellows with the white bottoms. You had the Marshmellows back then, you had the Espadrilles. Everybody started going to Fred Barnes. It was called Fred Barnes, it was a store. At that time if you wore a 50$ pair of shoes, you were kicking!!!"
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| Espadrilles |
SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it true that it was important to you back to then to wear clothes that had matching colors?"
DUESY:"Yes, because what they are wearing today would not fly back then. If you got a blue shirt on, you'd wear a blue pair of shoes. Okay, and if you had on like a striped shirt, the only thing striped on there is your shirt. And then we used to do the uhm....we used to wear...what were those boots called? Lil Abner's!!!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Were those construction work boots?"
DUESY:"No, they wasn't construction work boots. Lil Abner's was the boots that we would wear. Everybody wore Lil Abner's out in the streets, you know what I'm saying? Like regular boots. Those were worn by men and women."
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| Lil Abner Boots |
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also do the Hustle back then?"
DUESY:"Oh, I used to hustle my butt off. Absolutely! Oh, I could hustle!! Oh, I could still hustle today! Yes! The Hustle became very popular when we used to go to 371 (DJ Hollywood's club). That's when the Hustle started really swinging. I also remember doing the Hustle at Herc's parties. He would play "Dominoes" (by Donald Byrd), "Do What You What You Gotta Do" (by Eddie Drennon). Let me tell you something, the Hustle songs had the heavy beat 'cause they gave you time to bring it back, put you down, come up, twirl, twirl, twirl....Those were the great Hustle records. Those records you don't sit down.....Yeah, I used to hustle also."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What were your favourite breakbeats back then?"
DUESY:"Wow! Okay, I had "Rock Creek Park" (by The Blackbyrds).....Kool & The Gang...."The Mexican" (by Babe Ruth). Okay? Those were my records. Those records had beats that I knew I can get in and they're not even expecting what's gonna happen, you know what I'm saying!!! Like I said Trixie was more the James Brown. I could also do James Brown but I could do that better to my style of dancing, how I ripped the floor. See everybody had their own style of ripping the floor but we all ripped it!!! They was never ready for us! Every weekend we tried to bring something different and mix it with what we had."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also go up against guys or would you only battle girls?"
DUESY:"No, boys, girls.....we didn't care who we challenged. Listen, I danced against so many guys and bust 'em down....it was crazy!!!! Girls, too! A lot of girls didn't wanna challenge us though. Like we wasn't the ones to be challenged!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Please describe the relationship you had with Trixie's younger sister Kim who was also a B-Girl!"
DUESY:"Oh, we grew up together! Me and Kim we used to fight like cats and dogs! Listen, we used to eat in their house like they used to eat in our house. Every day! Yes, they lived on Nelson Avenue, right around the corner from Featherbed Lane. That's truly one of my friends from school. Me and Kim we were in the 2nd and 3rd grade together."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Nowadays you got a lot of so-called B-Boys and B-Girls who object to slow joints being played at parties, claiming that this violated the principles of true Hiphop. What's your take on that? Was it strictly breakbeats all night at Kool Herc's parties?"
DUESY:"They really don't know anything about our culture. No! Herc used to play slow joints. We used to do grinding and all that. All that went on! (Duesy starts singing, "For the love I gave to you" by The Delfonics). Herc played The Delfonics, The Temptations, Blue Magic, The Dramatics.....oh no, he played all these slow songs in 1973/74. It was some babymaking sounds in there, trust me! A lot of people got made in them days. You had to be there to understand what was going on. It was a beautiful era!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"I got a question regarding the evolution of dance. Is it accurate to say that in those early days of the artform dancing on top was of very high importance? Like you had to have exquisite footwork (not to be confused with the 6 step or 3 step which are done on the floor)?"
DUESY:"Oh yeah! Let me tell you something! Back then not everybody got down on the floor. You had people that danced standing up that killed it!!! I was a stand up dancer but I also got down on you but I never swept the floor."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Okay, so that obviously means that such things as hand gestures and facial expressions were very important then?"
DUESY:"Yeah, yeah....that's what I was saying....before they started dropping the mic I used to just drop my hand....BOW!!!!! That's what I'm saying...the hand gestures. Exactly! Calling them out, intimidate them with your hands....like, "Come on get it! Yeah, you!! Let me see what you're doing! Aha, mmhm.....Now watch this!" And then you would get busy on 'em."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Is it correct that during that era B-Boys and B-Girls would still mostly dance to the whole record?"
DUESY:"Everybody danced to the whole record unless somebody else jumped in like,"Let me do this!" Then we'd stop but not because we were afraid or tired it's because the next person tries to show off because we were whipping our opponent's butt...."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn!!"
DUESY:"So now more people are jumping in and everybody is battling now! Everybody's dancing. That's how that went!!! Trixie could dance two records!!!! Front to back!!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"How important was originality back then?"
DUESY:"Everybody had their own style. It was about style and technique."
SIR NORiN RAD:"What did you call the dance back then? Did you call it Rocking"
DUESY:"I called it Breakdance 'cause that's what we did. We was breakdancing."
SIR NORIN RAD:"The first I time I heard about you was through the Twins...Keith and Kevin. They mentioned you as being one of the baddest B-Girls from the Herc days along with Sister Boo and Janet Rock."
DUESY:"Those are my friends, yeah! (laughs).We used to tear it up! I sure appreciate them for putting my name out there! Sister Boo was good, too! She was from the projects. Yeah, Sister Boo. Damn, that's a name from the past! I don't even know if she's still around. I haven't heard that name in over 40 years."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did you also go to other DJs' parties? There was an early rival of Herc who threw parties in his apartment on Grant Avenue and other places which in turn were also attended by James Bond, Keith & Kevin and Clark Kent...... "
DUESY:"DJ Smoke....yeah, I went there, too."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn! You even know the name that he used to call himself. Most people only know him by DJ Smokey."
DUESY:"Listen, after Herc there came a lot of people, you know what I mean? Like Hollywood...but you have to understand he had a different technique when it came to that DJing at that time. I'm not saying that Hollywood wasn't as good but his following was totally different from Herc's."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I was told by many original B-Boys that the music which Hollywood played was also completely different from Herc and them as he didn't play that raw B-Boy sound but instead focussed on Disco and he dissed B-Boys and B-Girls and their dance."
DUESY:"That's what I'm saying. Herc and Coke's records.......their style was totally different from everybody else, you know what I'm saying? That's why they're phenomenal. Let me tell you something! I was there in the beginning. We'd go to other parties but no one was killing it like Herc and Coke. I'm sorry! We even went to parties on the Eastside....they were not bringing the noise like Herc. No, they wasn't!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What went through your head when you came home from a Herc party?"
DUESY:"You're going home like," Damn!!!! Where the party gonna be at next Saturday??" Yeah, yeah...you're already pulling out clothes. You ain't even went to school yet but you're trying to get dressed for Saturday...... you just left!!! You're kidding me? You lived for those days! That's what you saved your best outfit for! Walk in there cute, standing on the wall for a little while, see what's going on....All the hustling guys......everybody coming in with their Cortefiels and their little jewelry on. Guys standing on the wall. What?? It was like in one of those gangster movies. And all we wanted to do is dance. It was a beautiful era, let me tell you!!! Herc and Coke was different. Like I said he had to relocate because it got too big. His block parties were four blocks deep!!!!! You don't even understand! You couldn't even get in there. It was crazy!!! Cars double parked, people coming from all over!!! So he had to move to bigger and better. The Hevalo....I remember parties there....wall to wall people...when they didn't let nobody else in. It was like, "Get in early or you won't come in!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What are the biggest differences between your approach to the dance back then and what you see B-Girls doing today?"
DUESY:"They don't dance like we did. Everything is rehearsed now. See, we didn't rehearse. We went in there with a style of our own and we didn't try to look and dance like the guys 'cause we're girls. What we did was natural, we made up our own steps. We didn't take no steps from youtube or tiktok. We had none of that! You had to use your own creativity. You had to master your own style. Nobody danced like Trixie or Dancing Doug. We did it for the enjoyment, for the love of it. Those were the days and these are the times, you know what I'm saying? And some of the stuff they're doing right now, they're trying to act like they invented it. We done that already, yo!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Would you like to give shoutouts at the end of this interview?"
DUESY:"Yeah, I wanna give a shoutout to Kool Herc, Coke La Rock, Dancing Doug, Trixie, Sasa, The Twins and to my sister Nooney!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Shout outs to Dancing Doug for putting me in contact with the legendary Duesy. Watch out for his documentary!!!"