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| Roger K (The T.N.T. Disco Crew / The Jazzy 3 MCs) |
conducted by Sir Norin Rad (The Intruders / Germany)
SIR NORIN RAD:"From which part of the Boogie Down Bronx are you originally?"
ROGER K:"Well I'm originally from.....and always still from... 225th street & Laconia Avenue. This is an area known as Edenwald Projects. It is a very well known projects throughout the entire state of New York. It is very urban, very inner city with all of the problems and things that come with it. I in fact lived in a building 1155....East 225th street ...between Laconia and Schieffelin."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Where and when did your first encounter with Hiphop take place?"
ROGER K:" My very first time that I heard anything about Hiphop was from a DJ called Kool Herc. Very big guy, tall, red beard, very well known in the Hiphop community. He is what I looked up to. He really didn't have any MCs at that time. There were people who would just come up who knew him and asked to take the mic and they would just freestyle or whatever it was at that time. And then shortly after that other crews began to form like The Brothers Disco and I was very influenced by them and later on we...The T.N.T Disco Crew....we used to open up for them and in very big venues. And so we became well-known and they saw how well we performed so we opened up for them at a lot of places. That's how we met Grandmaster Flash and Grandwizard Theodore and so on and so forth."
SIR NORIN RAD:"So in terms of your major influence in MCing it was the MCs of the The Funky Four ( MC squad of The Brothers Disco)?"
ROGER K:"Oh, yes! Definetely! I mean they were such a big influence on myself and the Jazzy 3 MCs and our DJs because first of all we all knew each other. When you grew up in Edenwald you were well-known just for growing up there. It was a place where if they didn't know you or if you weren't known by someone who lived there you would not come into. And it's still that way to this day! It's crazy! The Brothers Disco would come to Edenwald and perform there and you know back in the days they had the ropes up so that you couldn't come to where the MCs and DJs were and since we were known we were able to come under the ropes and listening to them. They were a huge influence, a huge influence!!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Do you recall which MC of the Funky Four specifically influenced you to become a MC yourself?"
ROGER K:"Well, because at the time your rhymes were very important but the way you sounded on the mic...your voice..that's what drew people. MC Sha Rock...who happens to be a female...when she picked up the mic and when she rocked the mic....I mean, I seen people who never ever had even heard anyone on the mic....they would come. I saw parents come from grocery stores with their children just walk up to see what was going on just because of the melodic sound of her voice! She was awesome! After her I would say MC Keith Keith and MC Rahiem. They were very instrumental, very instrumental. And then the way I would see DJ Breakout mix the records and DJ Baron...and those were favourite records like "Apache" and "Good Times". Then when I heard that and when I saw how the crowd would hear the music....they would just be like lifted with joy!!! And then the MCs would come on and they would just level everyone! There would be just total elation!!!! It was something to be seen!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Oh, man!! You picture it very well!"
ROGER K:"I have to tell you I got goose bumps right now just from you helping me relive that! It was awesome and it will forever be a part of my life, forever!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"That took place in the late 1970ies, right? Like 1978, 1979?"
ROGER K:"Oh yes, around 1978 but prior to that I was listening to DJ Kool Herc and MCing wasn't really popular at that time. DJs would come out and they would play the music. People would come out and they would barbecue and they would just have a good time. Outdoors it was hot, no one wanted to be in the house. So you would hear this music with these big speakers echoing throughout the projects and you'd just be drawn to it. I mean, we as a people are always drawn to music. It's just within us. And then as we heard this music....some of our favourite songs and some of our favourite parts of these songs (the breakbeats) being played over and over again...you'd say,"How does this person do that?" and you'd get to the ropes and you'd see this man with these two turntables..at the time Technics...and you'd say,"Mmmh, that's how he keeps playing my favourite part of the song without any interuption!" It was awesome! It was awesome!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Having spoken to a lot of the original B-Boys I know that there was a time in Hiphop before there were any MCs, when the jams were all about the DJs and the B-Boys and B-Girls and legendary songs like "Apache", "Scorpio","It's Just Begun", "Yellow Sunshine" had them dancing....."
ROGER K:"Yeah, you named them correctly! Especially "Apache"! When it would come on and you would hear that ( hums the melody of "Apache") and you'd hear the beat and then the drums came in and you would see the B-Boy just go off!!! Crowds would form around them...circles....I mean way before MCs...circles and they would go off! I mean the acrobatics and the physicality of it all! And you were just drawn to watch them, listening to your favourite songs and then later on as the MCs were introduced to Hiphop they would be saying stuff like, "Yeah, I see you Kenny Boy!" This and that! Whoever their favourite B-Boy was."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Let's go back for a minute to how T.N.T. Disco was formed. What did TNT stand for? ?"
ROGER K:"Tommy and Tony. Tommy was our manager...God rest him...he passed away. They formed it. Timmy Tim was one of the original DJs and later on we got DJ Shevin and he was amazing. People said he was better than DJ Flash and DJ Theodore. Other crews tried to steal him from us, you know? They really encouraged him they said, "You can make so much money!" This and that! But he stayed loyal!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Is DJ Shevin the same person as DJ Shevy Shev? I have seen both DJ names on TNT Disco Flyers."
ROGER K:"Yes, that's him. His real name is Shevin. I went to junior high school with this guy."
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| May 12th, 1978: DJ Shevin & DJ Timmy Tim (TNT Productions at that time) rocking at Edenwald Center |
SIR NORIN RAD:"So DJ Timmy Tim and DJ Shevy Shev were the DJs of TNT Disco when you joined that crew?"
ROGER K:"Very true. Later on Shevy Shev I believe he went on to school, to further his education. So he didn't have time for DJing between his studies and, you know, we would always have to party late and we would travel and we didn't have people to carry our speakers. So not only were we MCs, we were sort of government mules. We had to help with the speakers on and off the van, set them up and so we learnt those things. Shevy Shev wanted to pursue his further education so his time was limited. Yes, they were our first DJs until later when DJ Shevy Shev left DJ Gary G had gotten a sort of an audition and he ripped it up and he became our DJ along with DJ Timmy Tim."
SIR NORIN RAD:"And Gary G was Timmy Tim's record boy before that, correct?"
ROGER K:"You really did your homework! Yes he was, he was Timmy Tim's record boy! And as a matter of fact had it not been for DJ Gary G I wouldn't have become a part of TNT Disco. Gary G had heard me because he lived in a building that was connected to mine and we were also childhood friends.We grew up together. So I knew that he DJed and that he was the record boy of DJ Timmy Tim. He heard me one time as he was practicing in his house. He said, "I'm gonna DJ for TNT! Watch, watch! One day I'm gonna replace Timmy Tim!" I said, "Maybe you will, maybe you won't." I wasn't even a MC at that time really. I started...without a mic..I started MCing and he heard my voice and he was like, "Roger K, your voice!!!" because as I said back then the voice was very important because it drew the people to you. Back then you could understand what we said unlike today where you cannot understand what many rappers are saying... for whatever reason. At that time you wanted to hear the person's rhymes but also the voice. Gary G said, "Man, listen! I'm gonna tell Tommy Tom about you!" So they were needing another MC and Tommy Tom lived directly across the street from me in one of the private houses and I went over there one day and I MCed and when I started to MC I saw them clapping their hands, dancing, saying, "Oh, my!" This and that! Just from the sound of the voice because a lot of the voices back then were deep like bass but when I would come on I'd be like,"Yes, yes y'all! And to the beat y'all! And you don't stop! You keep on!!!" (uses a higher pitched voice) They was like,"Uuuh!" and I didn't even start rhyming but the sound of the voice and the octave of the voice moved them. So Tommy Tom said, "Yo, you come back tomorrow!" And then I rocked at my first jam with them, from then on I became part of the TNT Disco Crew!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"So Tommy Tom was your manager?"
ROGER K:"He was the manager, he was the one who sort of got our equipment."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Who were the other two MCs of the Jazzy 3?"
ROGER K:"Kid Ice and Gangster Bee."
SIR NORIN RAD:"When did they join the T.N.T Disco Crew?"
ROGER K:"Well, Kid Ice was before me and Gangster B had actually probably joined TNT Disco maybe three to six months before me."
SIR NORIN RAD:"In which year were the Jazzy 3 MCs added to the T.N.T. Disco Crew?"
ROGER K:"Well, we started in 1979 and continued into the early 1980s but the DJs of the TNT Disco Crew had started well before that."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I have been told that many DJs in the Northeast Bronx initially started out as Disco DJs and then later on adapted to the Hiphop style of DJing as it had been created by Kool DJ Herc and as it was taken to the next level by Grandmaster Flash and others. Does that also apply to the DJs of the T.N.T. Disco Crew?"
ROGER K:"I would say it applies to the T.N.T. Disco Crew but we refused to change our name because disco was the thing that started it. You know when you have a strong foundation and then you build upon that you don't wanna toss away your foundation because the rest of it will fall. So although the disco style of DJing started being pushed in the back there would be many times when we would mix in soul music and made it into something that we would call Hiphop music today. The records were records, there was no such thing as rap records at the time. There was not even one rap record made!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"When people nowadays talk about Hiphop music I often ask them, "What exactly do you mean by that?" because without the great music genres of Funk, Soul, Jazz, Rock etc. the DJs back then would have had no source to draw their beats from to rock for the B-Boys and then for the MCs. There is no Hiphop music independent of those aforementioned music genres and the beats to be found therein."
ROGER K:"Yes, and to expand on that thought, brother Norin, look at Aerosmith's "Walk This Way"! We were playing that in the 1970ies looong before Run-D.M.C. had ever heard of it and there was a group called Kraftwerk.....I'll never forget....we used to love to rock over this record..it was called "Transeurope Express" (hums the melody of this song). And we would just rock!!!!! Once we heard it we got goose bumps. We were almost fighting for the mic! "Let me rock to this!" There was no such thing as Hiphop records! We were taking things from James Brown, we were taking things from all different genres and made them Hiphop."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Even that B-Boy anthem "The Mexican" by Babe Ruth is basically a rock song."
ROGER K:"Are you kidding me? (laughs) Yes it is! And we used to love to rock over that! I mean the funky part of any song no matter what genre it was from, no matter who made it...it's not a discriminatory thing. That's what I love about music it transcends ethnicity, it transcends age, it transcends gender...it's a universal language and when you find something like that which can connect people and draw people together how can it not be good, my brother?"
SIR NORIN RAD:"How would the rehearsals of the Jazzy 3 MCs go down and where would they take place?"
ROGER K:"We would go of course to Tommy Tom's house as I said he lived across the street from me, directly across from the housing projects and we would have a certain time and we would meet there three times a week. If you were not there you would be fined because we would get paid for all the shows that we did. So if you didn't show up you would get fined because he knew how important it was to rehearse. So we would go there and bounce rhymes off of each other and we'd ask each other, "How does this sound when we rock on this?" Then we'd be like, "Let's start doing some routines!" and we would say,"Look at this move!" Look at that move!" 'cause you gotta remember now not only are we MCing, we're also trying to take the attention away from the B-Boys because the B-Boys was there before we started MCing. So the people would form around the B-Boys. Now they would come and wanna listen to us as soon as we started dancing and as we started pointing out the crowd and said something like,"Yo, Bernie Bee is in the house! Koolin' out! Check, check him out!" People would hear their names and they would say,"Uh, that's me!" and they'd feel pride. And so we formed our routines and they were simple routines, you know? It was just something that was gelling together but we would always practice three times a week. We couldn't wait for the next jam to come! We couldn't wait because we wanted to try these new routines. Then we had battles against other DJs and MCs and we took first place so many times! God bless Tommy Tom, he had most of our trophies...I don't know where they are. We won 6-foot-trophies, 5-foot-trophies...most of the times we took first place, a couple of times we took second. We really flourished! As I said had certain things not occured which I don't know specifically what they were...we could have made it really far but it began with the death of Tommy Tom..once he had passed away.. being that he was our manager..things started to become loose. He was a strong link to us and then when his link was severed then the crew became preoccupied with other things 'cause they saw that the ship was not going to sail as well as it would and we went our separate ways."
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| August 24th, 1979: TNT Disco competes in a DJ/MC battle at the legendary Webster P.A.L. |
ROGER K:"Oh yes!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"How long did one rehearsal last?"
ROGER K:"It was so funny. We may say that we gonna rehearse for three or four hours but once we got that music in our soul and once we got together and once we started rocking and started creating sometimes these rehearsals would last five, six, seven hours. Tommy Tom's mother would say,"Listen! It's getting late! We do have neighbours! You gotta cut that off!" But the neighbours were outside rocking to our music, they didn't want us to stop. (laughs) We may originally wanted to do a three hour rehearsal but we couldn't really put a time on it 'cause once we got into it.....you know, time always passes very fast when you're having fun and we had fun!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Was there a DJ with you when you did these rehearsals?"
ROGER K:"Of course! DJ Shevy Shev and DJ Timmy Tim they had to be there otherwise they would be fined just like we would be fined. When it was rehearsal time you had better been there! You're part of the crew, you better be there! This is rehearsal for us. There is nobody that is going to stand in for us when we get to have our jam, when we have to rock the mic or rock the turntables. We have to do that! If we have to do that we have to practice to do that! And you know, the only way you get better is by repeating something over and over again. Practice makes perfect and we were damn near perfect in my opinion."
SIR NORIN RAD:"True original MCing also involved how you looked and how you presented yourself when you were rocking the mic, didn't it?"
ROGER K:"Yes, that was very important! It was very important to dress fly and we didn't have to have matching outfits at the time, you know? We just dressed fly. Our personality shone through when we had our Lees on, the bell-bottom Lees with the Pro-Keds 69ers or the Pumas, when we wore knit shirts or mocknecks. It was very important to look good because first of all we were trying to look good for ourselves but we were also impressing the people, especially the ladies. The guys were checking out our gear as well. Then our choreographies were also real nice. So it was like a show. Everybody didn't have money to go out, you know? But you could go to the park or you could go and spend 2$ and come to the gym and have a good time. It was a party! I'll never forget..it was 2$, 3,50$ and to look at the prices to enter a club today is ridiculous. You don't even get half the entertainment that we gave you!!!! We gave you a show!!! It was almost like coming to a concert. As I said you paid 2$ or 3,50$ or you would pay nothing. You would go to the park and you would see two or three DJs perform with their MCs and everything. It was so nice you didn't want to leave. Even when we were packing up we still had to leave one turntable playing!!! Just so that they let us pack up! And then we would say something like, "Okay we thank you for coming out everybody! We love y'all!" They would scream and they would not want to leave. They would not want to leave! It was amazing!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Did the Jazzy 3 MCs also have such routines like the Funky 4 or the Cold Crush 4 had which featured the melodies of popular songs?"
ROGER K:"Yes, of course! We even made up our own melodies. I wish that I had MC Kid Ice and MC Gangster Bee with us. I mean we would take popular melodies, have variations of popular melodies and there was one where the DJ would hold the record and in the beginning we'd sing, "This T-N-T and we're the Jazzy Three and another one of us who got the best cuts is DJ Gary G!!!!!!! So come on everybody and put your hands up in the air and come to the front and do us a favor so we know that you care!!!! T-N-T we are the best y'all!!! I can't believe I remember that."
SIR NORIN RAD:"Damn! You have an incredibly nice voice I must say!"
ROGER K:"And we made that up!!! We made that up!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"Could you please describe which specific role each MC of the Jazzy 3 had back then within your MC squad?"
ROGER K:"I would ultimately say that Kid Ice had the most advanced rap style. He was very intense with the words and his creativity. Kid Ice was unmatched when it came to having rhymes. I mean he had books and books full of rhymes! He had so many rhymes he would even say, "Roger K I wrote this rhyme but it don't sound good with me. This would be perfect for your voice!" So Kid Ice with the words and everything was nice. He was the man! They would give me rhymes because they knew I had a voice and they saw that the crowd liked my voice. Certain rhymes that I came up with Kid Ice would tweak. He would say, "Do it this way, Roger K!"And then I would and it would be successful. Gangster Bee would be the one who would hype up the crowd,"Come on, y'all!!!! Put your hands up! Come on y'all, let's go!!!!" And he also had his own rap style and he was good but he was the one who would hype up the crowd, "Come on y'all! Roger K is in the house!" Then I would come on and it was weird because I remember coming on and I was always nervous, no matter how many times we performed I was always nervous and then when I would come on after the first couple of words I would hear the crowd screaming and that just hyped me up. Then I was on! I was nervous no more. Initially, you're getting ready. Like,"Come on!" You're hearing your compadres, your co-rockers rock the mic and you're hearing the crowd rocking.... happy to hear them. So you're wondering in the background, "God! I'm up next!" You know? And then when you get on and they say,"Yo Roger K! Don't stop! Just put on your mic when you ready to rock!" Then I would get on and the crowd would go crazy. I just instantly lost my nervousness cause I was over the question, "Am I gonna please these people? Am I gonna give them what they want?" So yeah, Kid Ice was the one with the rhymes, Gangster Bee was definetely our hype man like Flavor Flav but he also rhymed, I had the outstanding voice and then our performances just made it come to a paramount."
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| April 3rd, 1980: T.N.T. Disco is rocking at the legendary T-Connection in the Bronx along with the Brothers Disco and DJ Sinbad & Kool Kyle The Starchild |
ROGER K:"That's correct because as I said DJ Shevy Shev had gone back to school so he didn't have much time but he was never dismissed from the crew. Whenever he would show up we would want him to get on. As time went on he left New York for a little bit to further his studies and then it was just DJ Timmy Tim and DJ Gary G and Gary G became better than Timmy Tim. He just became better. I mean practice makes perfect. Timmy Tim was a wonderful DJ but he left practice. Gary G was hungry, he wanted it he would practice all the time...no matter what it was he would practice. So when I came by his window and I'd hear him practice when I'd be coming home from work...part time job or whatever...I would run up the stairs and get on the mic. We had crowds forming downstairs underneath his window! They would approach us later on, "Yo, we heard you practice!!" This and that!! "What was that rhyme that you said about Adam and Eve???" So we were like, "Wow, they were really listening!" But Gary G was hungry and when you're hungry you gonna eat. So he took over! Excellent DJ!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What are your Top 5 Beats from back then?"
ROGER K:"Oh Top 5...I know that "Apache" (by the Incredible Bongo Band) is definetely one. "Frisco Disco" by Eastside Connection is two. "Transeurope Express" by Kraftwerk is three. Number four is that song "Paradise is very nice....." ("Shangri La" by La Pregunta). To this day if I hear them I don't even care if there's a mic next to me I gonna rock!!! Number five is "Good Times" (by Chic) Ohh!!! You put on "Good Times" and if somebody is on the mic I'm gonna take it from him!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"What was the main stomping ground of The T.N.T. Disco Crew?"
ROGER K:"Every part of Edenwald especially because when we rocked in the centers.....the Edenwald Center and Baychester Center we would have to share whatever we brought in. And then it was a limited amount of space. So when we would rock there we would be doing it because we would be getting paid but it could only hold legally a certain amount of people. So I would say that the Edenwald Center and Baychester Center and the surrounding schools like John Philip Sousa Junior High School they were good as far as lucrativity, as far as getting paid but as far as me seeing the crowds of people.....cause it really wasn't about the money, it was about seeing the people run through the gates of the parks to see and hear us rock and come to the front of our ropes and look at us. It was the parks! For me it was the parks. I can't speak for Gangster Bee and Kid Ice but for me it was the parks. Of course I could use an extra dollar but for me that wasn't my satisfaction. My satisfaction was when we would be in the parks."
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| October 31st, 1980: The T.N.T. Disco is rocking at Sousa JHS |
SIR NORIN RAD:"Which parks in Edenwald would you rock at?"
ROGER K:"112 park near my elementary school...where I went to elementary school and of course graduated and there's a big baseball field out there and we would rock that park. Oh, another one was The Valley Park near Haffen pool. That's where DJ Breakout and them used to rock at as well."
SIR NORIN RAD:"I have heard a lot about The Valley. Many legendary B-Boy and DJ/MC Battles took place there. How did these original DJ /MC battles go down back in the days? It was about showcasing your skills, wasn't it?"
ROGER K:"Yes, it was! It was about who made the crowd more enthused! We wouldn't talk about your mother, we wouldn't talk about your girl, we were talking about us, about our skills and the crowd. We would talk about , "We make the ladies jump and we can rock better than you!" It wasn't personal. It was about talent. In order to make myself look good I don't have to make you look bad or offend you. I just have to be the best person that I could be and that's how it was. It wasn't about trying to disrespect each other. The talent could prove who we are and where we come from."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the other legendary DJ/MC crews from the Northeast Bronx besides The Brothers Disco? Like The Touch Of Class Disco Crew, The P.T. Disco Crew, The Music Masters or The C.B. Crew?"
ROGER K:"Touch Of Class they were very cool. We loved all the crews that were doing what we did. We would go to see Tricky Tee's crew (The C.B. Crew) like whenever they booked Edenwald Center. We'd go and show them support and at the same time you wanted know what your competition was doing. That makes you better. If your competition is doing something that is making the crowd jump and has everybody rocking, you wanna know how you can bring your game up! So it's always good to go and listen to your competition but at the same time we loved these brothers! We came from the same areas! We came from the same hoods, you know? Tricky Tee and I went to elementary school together, junior high school together and then high school everybody went their separate way. That's my brother for life."
SIR NORIN RAD:"What kind of place was Baychester Center?"
ROGER K:"It was small, it was sort of quiet. It was right across the street from Edenwald Projects. We couldn't book it as much because there were more Caucasian (white) people at the time, it was more conservative so we would have to end the party really early. Edenwald Projects was Edenwald Projects! You know, you would end the party maybe 3 o' clock in the morning, maybe 4 o'clock..that was the latest. Baychester Center..if we rented it out we had to start like 4, 5 o'clock in the afternoon and we would have to end the party at maybe 12 or 1 o'clock. Come on, we just started rocking at that time!! We were just getting warmed up!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"So you're saying that you and your crewmates were rocking for like 6,7 hours straight?"
ROGER K:"Of course!!! Of course we would! Listen, as many records are in that crate we gonna rock them! We wanted the people to have a good time! And when we were outside we wouldn't stop until the cops came by and told us to stop! We started setting up our equipment in the park around 5.30 or 6 o'clock...something like that...we sometimes wouldn't get out of that park before 3 or 4 O'clock in the morning. The cops would come around and they would look if the crowd would be getting too big or if some people started to act crazy because sometimes people would be like, "Yo, you looking at my girl?????" and then somebody might pull out a gun...BLOW!!....one gunshot... people would be getting trampled because the park was so crowded. So that's why the cops would tell us, "Listen, you have to stop now before it's getting crazy!" But we rocked...6 hours is nothing....are you kidding me?? That's why I said you don't go to concerts today for 6 hours! That's almost like a full-time job!!! It would come to the point where we had to freestyle....usually we would write all of our rhymes and we wouldn't be reading them but we had them committed to memory. So we would be rocking and I would go literally through maybe two or three of my entire rhyme books and then we just had to freestyle. We would look into the crowd and we had to come off the top of our head. To us it was like a job!! We wanted to deliver a good time to the people that came to see us and not one person is going to leave there unsatisfied! Not one person!!"
SIR NORIN RAD:"That's really amazing!!"
ROGER K:"Yeah, because nowadays,you know, a lot of them are just here for the dollar. They made their records, they made their money so some of them don't even want to perform for an hour. Nah man, it wasn't about that!!! Cause we was partying with the crowd, we stayed there until we were told to leave and that was never unless it was by the police. To this day I still feel the same way. I went to a Chris Brown concert. Yes, Chris Brown rocked the concert, yes he did! But he had like 4, 5 other performers with him and the concert was maybe 3 hours. I paid like 200 $ and change for the ticket and the concert was like 3 hours. Back then the people paid almost nothing and we rocked for six to seven hours!"
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| February 27th, 1981: The T.N.T. Disco Crew is rocking at the legendary T-Connection along with DJ Jazzy Jay & The Jazzy Five |